Giant Monsters should have their own map marker.

[Starhammer]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

It sounds like the OP considers checking established spawn points as a challenge.

There's no need to be condescending. It isn't going to help anything. Unless your goal is just to bully people off the forums so as to increase the weight of your own voice by comparison.

-----------------

I'd like to see a marker on the maps for giant monsters, purely for convenience. I would consider it perfectly reasonable if that were unlocked per monster by earning the badge for defeating it. 

Furthermore, I would love to see a new TF/SF that is solely a curated version of the popular GM hunt teams that sends you out to them in a set order, and guarantees the monsters spawn when a TF member enters the zone, if they haven't already. (of course, I want it to culminate in a fight against a "new" giant monster(s) in an instanced version of Talos or IP or maybe Kallisti Wharf, but the zone is shrunk down to represent your TF having gotten supersized to face the GM on more even terms)

[Ghost]

14 hours ago, Krimson said:

I see how players talk in-game. I can totally see why newer players wouldn't want to ask questions there. Heck, I can see why players would be discouraged from asking questions here in the forums; you're opening yourself up to grief.

No, people are not griefed for asking for help in game.

I see players ask for help all the time in the HELP channel (exc), and are flooded with information.  Some good.  Some not so good, but still well intentioned.

 

These forums are full of players asking for advice on builds, powers, infl, gameplay, etc - and full of more experienced players answering their questions and offering up advice.

 

 

 

Edited December 13 by Ghost

[tidge]

20 hours ago, BasiliskXVIII said:

Is "hunting" the GM really considered a "challenge"? You go to the zone and visit the 10 spots or so that the monsters spawn.

 

16 hours ago, tidge said:

It sounds like the OP considers checking established spawn points as a challenge.

 

11 hours ago, Starhammer said:

There's no need to be condescending. It isn't going to help anything. Unless your goal is just to bully people off the forums so as to increase the weight of your own voice by comparison.

 

It is neither condescending nor bullying to point out that if it is straightforward to check known spawn points for GMs, it is just as straightforward to check known present spawn points.

 

*If* giant monsters were marked on maps, it would be extremely trivial for single players, or players on leagues, to simply zone in an find giant monsters with no effort beyond exiting a base portal.  For cases where a player *thinks* there might be a giant monster in a zone, that player can pop into the zone and broadcast asking if anyone knows where the GM is.

 

As a solo, non-multi-box GM hunter... if the Giant Monsters showed up on the zone map, I'd be able clear all the zone monsters in something like half as much time simply because I wouldn't have to look for them. It would become trivial for multi-boxers to do so. My negative reaction to the suggestion isn't based on "gatekeeping", it is motivated because right now Giant Monsters are something of a challenge... both to find and to fight. For players who don't find GMs to be a challenge... the only challenge left is to find them.

[tidge]

15 hours ago, Mystoc said:

 

what's wrong asking for the game to more welcoming to new players? I myself don't personally need this change but that doesn't mean it isn't a good one to add.

 

 

YMMV... but I don't consider Giant Monster fighting something that "new players" should be expected to deal with.

[Starhammer]

On 12/13/2025 at 6:30 AM, tidge said:

 

 

 

It is neither condescending nor bullying to point out that if it is straightforward to check known spawn points for GMs, it is just as straightforward to check known present spawn points.

 

*If* giant monsters were marked on maps, it would be extremely trivial for single players, or players on leagues, to simply zone in an find giant monsters with no effort beyond exiting a base portal.  For cases where a player *thinks* there might be a giant monster in a zone, that player can pop into the zone and broadcast asking if anyone knows where the GM is.

 

As a solo, non-multi-box GM hunter... if the Giant Monsters showed up on the zone map, I'd be able clear all the zone monsters in something like half as much time simply because I wouldn't have to look for them. It would become trivial for multi-boxers to do so. My negative reaction to the suggestion isn't based on "gatekeeping", it is motivated because right now Giant Monsters are something of a challenge... both to find and to fight. For players who don't find GMs to be a challenge... the only challenge left is to find them.

When you suggest that something that isn't hard for you is "challenging" to others, yeah, it's being condescending, especially if you need to brag afterwards about how you're so good at it in order to imply you're more qualified to have an opinion on this than anyone else. Oh yay, you're so much better than all of us, we should all just leave and let you be the sole voice on the forums...

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Starhammer said:

When you suggest that something that isn't hard for you is "challenging" to others, yeah, it's being condescending, especially if you need to brag afterwards about how you're so good at it in order to imply you're more qualified to have an opinion on this than anyone else. Oh yay, you're so much better than all of us, we should all just leave and let you be the sole voice on the forums...

 

You are having a conversation with voices in your head. I have merely pointed out that if it is trivial to travel around a zone to check fixed spawn points for Object A, it is the exact same process to travel around a zone to check the fixed spawn points for Object B.

[UltraAlt]

On 12/11/2025 at 1:42 PM, Mystoc said:

I understand some people do like exploring and the sense of discovery and not instantly having info given to them so perhaps a middle ground could be: Giant Monsters wouldn't be marked on the map until they are targeted by a player for the first time?

 

I don't think this can be done this way. 

I think it would have to be mark it when spawned or left like it is.

 

On 12/12/2025 at 7:30 AM, tidge said:

This would make them too easy to hunt.

 

I agree this this.

 

I enjoy being on monster hunting teams. Obviously because of ... you guessed it?

 

Spoiler

The giant monster fight and not the merits.

 

... but also hunting them down. 

 

Some people don't like racing around zones, I enjoy this. 

I remember the days before the Sunset when sometimes your character would look up and see a team racing across THE CITY to their next adventure ... not so much these days with easy teleportation to bases with teleporters and mission teleport/team teleport to bypass "the journey"^tm.  Not to say that I don't use those options since they are available to us and, generally, expected.

I do like traveling through THE CITY and checking out the sights. The area maps did seem so much bigger when characters couldn't get travel powers until level 14 (and there were no P2W/START "fast" travel powers).

 

On 12/12/2025 at 10:40 AM, Uun said:

What about amending the system messages announcing the spawning of a GM to include its location?

 

I'm not for the idea in general, but this would seem more easily implemented. 

 

On 12/12/2025 at 1:20 PM, BasiliskXVIII said:

Is "hunting" the GM really considered a "challenge"? You go to the zone and visit the 10 spots or so that the monsters spawn. 

 

When you don't know the spots then it is a challenge.

And, if there are "10 spots", players still have to "hunt" around to find which one of the "10 spots" that they have spawned.

 

Myself, I like challenge. The games aren't much fun to me if they are a cakewalk.

 

On 12/12/2025 at 1:20 PM, BasiliskXVIII said:

Besides, if we're getting into the narrative of the matter, aren't giant monster attacks in fiction generally pretty obvious? The Kaiju scene in the Superman movie isn't predicated on a prolonged sequence of figuring out where he is. 

 

Godzilla attacking Tokyo is pretty obvious, but, at that point, jets have to be scrambled and the military needs to try to move into position before Godzilla heads to another location.

 

I think you are talking about the new Superman movie that I haven't seen.

Can't Superman technically hear a Jimmy's signal watch anywhere on the planet?

So something like a giant monster would stand out quite bit from the rest of the "background noise" on the planet ... probably even a military conflicts. And, then, of course, he can flight at heading on the speed of light ... and he can't get there fast enough ... he can just fly back through time and arrive before the giant monster arrives and have a meal and rest up before it does arrive.

 

On 12/12/2025 at 5:44 PM, Mystoc said:

what's wrong asking for the game to more welcoming to new players?

 

Nothing.

 

My feeling is that the new players should get used to playing the game before joining Giant Monster hunts.

But I don't think new players should be having their character(s) power-leveled to 50 either.

 

 

On 12/12/2025 at 6:16 PM, Mystoc said:

relying on experienced players to make the game more understandable can work and its great others are willing to help but that's not a constant reliable factor what if a player is on a low pop server or plays at odd hours?

 

How many new players are going to be going around solo fighting giant monsters?

There won't even be that many experienced players doing it unless they are multiboxing.

 

Since Giant Monsters are going to require a team to fight, the "low pop" and "odd hours" reasoning doesn't seem valid to me.

 

I fully understand that you are making a suggestion that you think would be helpful. I am glad that you did that.

I just don't feel that the DEV's time would be more valuable doing something else as there are active Giant Monster fighting teams that are easily able to form team, locate, target, assemble teams, and go from zone to zone until the team has taken out all the Giant Monsters that they are able to hunt down. I know these happen because I join them quite often. Most of them don't broadcast the /loc of the target because there sometimes is "that super" that feels like it is up to them to save the day single-handedly and can't wait for the team that is "assembling" to assemble and start the fight and take out the Giant Monsters before the "stragglers" arrive from other parts of THE CITY.

 

[Mystoc]

 

 

15 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

 

I fully understand that you are making a suggestion that you think would be helpful. I am glad that you did that.

I just don't feel that the DEV's time would be more valuable doing something else as there are active Giant Monster fighting teams that are easily able to form team, locate, target, assemble teams, and go from zone to zone until the team has taken out all the Giant Monsters that they are able to hunt down. I know these happen because I join them quite often. Most of them don't broadcast the /loc of the target because there sometimes is "that super" that feels like it is up to them to save the day single-handedly and can't wait for the team that is "assembling" to assemble and start the fight and take out the Giant Monsters before the "stragglers" arrive from other parts of THE CITY.

 

to me I don't think it would require much work to add this but I'm not a dev and neither are you we are really just guessing here, you seem to be neutral about this idea and just think it's too much work to add in which is fair I just think this would helpful feature for new players to have so am suggesting it.

 

they already do this for zone events like fires and trolls raves is it really that different to do giant monsters as well? I'm not saying constantly keep track of the giant monster in real time just mark on the map where the spawn happened. 

 

lastly remember this feature would not be forced on people who still like being surprised and hunting for GMs showing them could be toggled off like can be done for other notable things on the zone map.

 

 

[tidge]

11 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

Lastly remember this feature would not be forced on people who still like being surprised and hunting for GMs showing them could be toggled off like can be done for other notable things on the zone map.

 

My objection is that that it would make hunting for GMs even more trivial; it is not predicated on me personally enjoying zipping around zones to discover if the GM has spawned. Think about this in the context of Adamastor: It always spawns in the same spot, with a timer of no more than one hour. People who are inclined to multibox the rewards only have to log in for the < 2 minutes to defeat Adamastor. The daily limit on rewards doesn't discourage this.

 

Recall also the situation with Ghost of Scrapyard: because it could only spawn in one of two locations, people were camping and spawning it endlessly for rewards. This is a case where the daily limits did stop the behavior. We don't need daily limits on GM rewards, as long as their timers are as long as they are and they aren't trivial to find.

 

If GMs were marked on a map, a multiboxer only has the additional complication of moving all their toons to a zone, and get the one close enough to port the team into (the known) location. Solo GM hunters could trivially get to more than one zone GM while a single Lore summons is up.

[Mystoc]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 

My objection is that that it would make hunting for GMs even more trivial; it is not predicated on me personally enjoying zipping around zones to discover if the GM has spawned. Think about this in the context of Adamastor: It always spawns in the same spot, with a timer of no more than one hour. People who are inclined to multibox the rewards only have to log in for the < 2 minutes to defeat Adamastor. The daily limit on rewards doesn't discourage this.

 

Adamaster was problematic cause it had a fixed spawn AND also has a countdown timer proclaiming exactly when it can be fought those two things together made isnta farming it too trivial, as long has GMs spawn timer can't be tracked and it's not predictable the exact time they will appear knowing the location is not an issue.

 

 

1 minute ago, tidge said:

If GMs were marked on a map, a multiboxer only has the additional complication of moving all their toons to a zone, and get the one close enough to port the team into (the known) location. Solo GM hunters could trivially get to more than one zone GM while a single Lore summons is up.

 

that is why GMs were buffed to require more players to defeat them I'm not sure on ToS for multiboxing but I believe its max 3 accounts open at once that amount could defeat an GM I'm sure but it's not going to be instant.

 

wouldn't marking the boss on the map actually help combat this issue you describe Tigde? knowing where to go right away with no confusion helps people that are interested in joining the GM fight that has already started right away even if they aren't invited to a team or are given the $loc in broadcast they now always know where to go, players only need to damage the GM once to be awarded credit it's not based on percentage damage anymore.

 

[tidge]

57 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

wouldn't marking the boss on the map actually help combat this issue you describe Tigde? knowing where to go right away with no confusion helps people that are interested in joining the GM fight that has already started right away even if they aren't invited to a team or are given the $loc in broadcast they now always know where to go, players only need to damage the GM once to be awarded credit it's not based on percentage damage anymore.

 

Re: "knowing where to go"

 

When I solo GMs without Lores it takes me 5 minutes or fewer (not Lusca or Goliath War Walker). I mention this not because this is a fast time... multi-boxers go MUCH faster... but rather to establish what I consider to be the maximum amount of time I'll wait for someone else. I used to always broadcast (monster, zone, location) and it would often take players 5+ minutes to get to the zone. I can of course 'turn down the heat', so I'd start to work on the GMs... and players still took a long time, and started getting resentful that "I didn't wait". I'm now one of many players that simply doesn't announce or wait. The only difference between me and the multi-boxers is that I'll Broadcast in zone the location and the fight and that I take slightly longer than a multi-boxer.

 

If the GMs showed up on the map, I am convinced they wouldn't stay on the map for very long. When I am NOT playing a solo GM hunter, I see the GM hunters pop into zones plenty quick after a spawn message.

 

I suspect this original request is coming from a sense of FOMO related to the 1-month only, semi-restrictive spawns of the Winter Lord from special gifts. I get it... but if all monsters appeared on maps, it would simply make defeating the GMs extremely easy. The PI ToT leagues would do nothing but fight GMs.

 

EDIT: I want to add this... FOMO is the reason why I support putting a marker for the Arachnos Flier. It's a rather unique GM in that you don't know which one spawned, you don't know where in the zone it *is*, it moves, and it is invulnerable and regenerates between stops, and it leaves the map.

Edited Wednesday at 06:04 PM by tidge

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

they already do this for zone events like fires and trolls raves

Steel Canyon fires and Skyway City Troll raves also have an official city response at the sites. The fire event has that fire marshall blowing his whistle and provided extinguishers as he calls on available heroes to help fight the fires and stop the Hellions. The Troll rave has the PPD there in force cordoning the area and (uselessly) firing weapons at the partying Trolls. As opposed to the giant monsters of the game who have zero city response.

[Mystoc]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

 

Re: "knowing where to go"

 

When I solo GMs without Lores it takes me 5 minutes or fewer (not Lusca or Goliath War Walker). I mention this not because this is a fast time... multi-boxers go MUCH faster... but rather to establish what I consider to be the maximum amount of time I'll wait for someone else. I used to always broadcast (monster, zone, location) and it would often take players 5+ minutes to get to the zone. I can of course 'turn down the heat', so I'd start to work on the GMs... and players still took a long time, and started getting resentful that "I didn't wait". I'm now one of many players that simply doesn't announce or wait. The only difference between me and the multi-boxers is that I'll Broadcast in zone the location and the fight and that I take slightly longer than a multi-boxer.

 

If the GMs showed up on the map, I am convinced they wouldn't stay on the map for very long. When I am NOT playing a solo GM hunter, I see the GM hunters pop into zones plenty quick after a spawn message.

 

I suspect this original request is coming from a sense of FOMO related to the 1-month only, semi-restrictive spawns of the Winter Lord from special gifts. I get it... but if all monsters appeared on maps, it would simply make defeating the GMs extremely easy. The PI ToT leagues would do nothing but fight GMs.

so you think its better that each player have a random chance to guess correctly and find the GM fast or slow? say the multiboxer is lucky and finds the GM within 30 seconds and then new player who wants to also participate take 2 minutes according to you they can defeat these GMs somewhat fast so now the other player misses out.. why does it make more sense to leave it chance in your mind?

 

the only GM i firmly believe that shouldn't be marked on map is sally since isn't a true fight and can be done solo so it makes sense it should be treated like a treasure hunt, it's more like a npc you interact with then it disappears it has no attacks.

[Mystoc]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Steel Canyon fires and Skyway City Troll raves also have an official city response at the sites. The fire event has that fire marshall blowing his whistle and provided extinguishers as he calls on available heroes to help fight the fires and stop the Hellions. The Troll rave has the PPD there in force cordoning the area and (uselessly) firing weapons at the partying Trolls. As opposed to the giant monsters of the game who have zero city response.

they are called "Giant" Monsters for a reason not Small Monsters people know where they are, you think everyday people in independence port don't know where lusca appears? a normal everyday citizen most likely have apps on their phone that warns of monster rampages so they know where to stay clear from, in that same sense it makes a lot sense a hero would have radio dispatch that alerts them to this very same thing and where a GM was last spotted.

 

normal city officials aren't nearby because it's too dangerous, these are beings who can defeat a hero in one or two hits that require a team of heroes to take down what good does sending police officers do here? I would think it very weird to see a normal everyday human near a giant monster by choice.

[Rudra]

39 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

so you think its better that each player have a random chance to guess correctly and find the GM fast or slow? say the multiboxer is lucky and finds the GM within 30 seconds and then new player who wants to also participate take 2 minutes according to you they can defeat these GMs somewhat fast so now the other player misses out.. why does it make more sense to leave it chance in your mind?

 

the only GM i firmly believe that shouldn't be marked on map is sally since isn't a true fight and can be done solo so it makes sense it should be treated like a treasure hunt, it's more like a npc you interact with then it disappears it has no attacks.

You are really, really trying to find something that sticks.... Okay, here we go. Firstly, there are already players that solo, not multi-boxing, hunt down GMs and wipe them out without announcing the GM. The GMs were fairly recently updated to make that more difficult, but I am not aware of that stopping. And since those players know the spawn points and check them, all adding markers will do is take away the need for those players to check the spawn points. Enabling them to wipe out the GMs in less time. Second, most players I know of announce the GM in multiple chat channels so as many players can get credit as possible.

 

21 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

they are called "Giant" Monsters for a reason not Small Monsters people know where they are, you think everyday people in independence port don't know where lusca appears? a normal everyday citizen most likely have apps on their phone that warns of monster rampages so they know where to stay clear from, in that same sense it makes a lot sense a hero would have radio dispatch that alerts them to this very same thing and where a GM was last spotted.

 

normal city officials aren't nearby because it's too dangerous, these are beings who can defeat a hero in one or two hits that require a team of heroes to take down what good does sending police officers do here? I would think it very weird to see a normal everyday human near a giant monster by choice.

Giant Monsters most often are in zones where civilians are not. Kraken in Perez Park. Babbage and the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown. Adamastor in Echo: Dark Astoria (even when it was not an echo zone and was the active Dark Astoria zone). Jurassik in Crey's Folly. Only Eochai, Jack in Irons, and Lusca are in zones where there is a civilian populace. And in Croatoa where Eochai and Jack in Irons are, they are in parts of the map where the people don't go. Areas where things that will kill them are, so they stay away, reporting sightings as something in the woods was seen. Only Lusca is in an area where people are, and even Lusca is not tracked by the city. The PPD can easily set up a cordon to make sure people stay away from Lusca, but they don't. And then you get red side, which has the Arachnos Flier in Grandville which no one is going to report other than players hunting it because the people there know better than to draw Arachnos' attention to them for getting involved, and Arachnos isn't going to advertise where their flier is just so random villains can take it down. Those things are expensive to build. And then you have Arachnos being the government of the Rogue Isles and their philosophy of the strong survive and the weak die. So they aren't going to bother posting any response to Caleb (who is off on his own island with the rest of the Circle of Thorns), Deathsurge, or (Ghost of) Scrapyard. As far as Arachnos is concerned, people have to fend for themselves, and Arachnos only gets involved when events start affecting them. Like the Goldbrickers' data thefts. So either you have the thing of the giant monsters are off in areas not available to the city, let alone the general public, and so limited resources are not devoted to them and instead are directed to sapient threats actively causing problems, or you have a government that doesn't care because it views the giant monsters as just another test/challenge. And Arachnos is not in the habit of helping others deal with their tests/challenges. The only exception is Lusca, who again still does not have a city response.

 

Edited Wednesday at 06:51 PM by Rudra
Edited to remove extra period, add apostrophe, and add "in".

[Mystoc]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

You are really, really trying to find something that sticks.... Okay, here we go. Firstly, there are already players that solo, not multi-boxing, hunt down GMs and wipe them out without announcing the GM. The GMs were fairly recently updated to make that more difficult, but I am not aware of that stopping. And since those players know the spawn points and check them, all adding markers will do is take away the need for those players to check the spawn points. Enabling them to wipe out the GMs in less time.. Second, most players I know of announce the GM in multiple chat channels so as many players can get credit as possible.

new players do not know where to check for GM spawns so they end up checking everywhere not everyone has vidoitmaps installed they dont know where to look, you look at every change from the perspective of a long time veteran of this game if we want attract new players to try out this game and stay for good changes like this are helpful.

 

Everything below is game lore stuff if you don't care about lore don't read it but Rudra brought it up so I will address it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

 

Giant Monsters most often are in zones where civilians are not. Kraken in Perez Park. Babbage and the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown. Adamastor in Echo: Dark Astoria (even when it was not an echo zone and was the active Dark Astoria zone). Jurassik in Crey's Folly. Only Eochai, Jack in Irons, and Lusca are in zones where there is a civilian populace. And in Croatoa where Eochai and Jack in Irons are, they are in parts of the map where the people don't go. Areas where things that will kill them are, so they stay away, reporting sightings as something in the woods was seen. Only Lusca is an area where people are, and even Lusca is not tracked by the city. The PPD can easily set up a cordon to make sure people stay away from Lusca, but they don't.

 

 

remember from a narrative perspective Giant Monsters are one of a kind they just reappear for so we have repeatable content to do, you don't need a normal citizen nearby to know a Giant Monster is in a zone they are massive Monsters who could wander out of their hazard zone into a populated area at moment's notice keeping track of them is still very important. This game has satellites just like real life and from a superhero angle psychic powers exist to see the future and be warned of threats like GMs.

 

common sense says that yes the PDD would should do this for lusca but they don't because its alot of dev work to animate NPCs and have events cause zone wide changes, GMs realistically should also be rampaging and destroying cars and building too not just standing in one spot waiting to be defeated, however you can only apply so much real life logic to game logic Rudra we know that don't do this cause it would be a ton of work for the devs to implement.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

And then you get red side, which has the Arachnos Flier in Grandville which no one is going to report other than players hunting it because the people there know better than to draw Arachnos' attention to them for getting involved, and Arachnos isn't going to advertise where their flier is just so random villains can take it down. Those things are expensive to build. And then you have Arachnos being the government of the Rogue Isles and their philosophy of the strong survive and the weak die. So they aren't going to bother posting any response to Caleb (who is off on his own island with the rest of the Circle of Thorns), Deathsurge, or (Ghost of) Scrapyard. As far as Arachnos is concerned, people have to fend for themselves, and Arachnos only gets involved when events start affecting them. Like the Goldbrickers data thefts. So either you have the thing of the giant monsters are off in areas not available to the city, let alone the general public, and so limited resources are not devoted to them and instead are directed to sapient threats actively causing problems, or you have a government that doesn't care because it views the giant monsters as just another test/challenge. And Arachnos is not in the habit of helping others deal with their tests/challenges. The only exception is Lusca, who again still does not have a city response.

 

 

Villainy does not mean just let all civilians die and not care about them at all, even from an evil organization perspective controlling normal humans still represents power for Arachnos it's easier to control the weak and order them to produce the goods and services you want if there is order, a giant monster rampaging in cities is instead chaos that's how you getting normal zones turning into hazard zones.

 

I agree villains would not care about any one human biting the dust but they still don't want too much chaos in the cities they have control over, Some nobody getting shot and mugged in the street is much much different then deathsurge rampaging in cap diablo villains want to stop this so they can get control back over the population to order around it's that simple.

 

lastly you keep mentioning GMs are in hazard zones or that Caleb is on an Island we know has players in this game world they can't leave those zones or areas but that is not how it would be viewed at all with real life logic at all..  Perez Park is surrounded by 4 city zones with huge populations centers on all sides, those four cities are safe for now but that doesn't mean that danger PP has can't spill over to these zones, the game gives us one neat entrance and exit that connects the zones but that's just game logic to simplify exploration for the player.

 

hero or even villain organizations still care about what happens in Hazzard zones so would 100% keep track of GMs there to make sure they are warned if these GMs start wandering into civilized areas.

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:30 PM by Mystoc

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

new players do not know where to check for GM spawns so they end up checking everywhere not everyone has vidoitmaps installed they dont know where to look, you look at every change from the perspective of a long time veteran of this game if we want attract new players to try out this game and stay for good changes like this are helpful.

Again with the new players. A truly new player knows absolutely nothing about the game other than what they learn through the tutorial (assuming they opted to go through one of them) and what they previously discovered from friends talking about the game or other sources they found that piqued their interest. And let me emphasize this next part: new players are not stupid. They don't need anyone to hold their hand and tell them every little part of the game when they first start playing. When they first start playing, their focus should be on learning the mechanics of their chosen AT and selected power sets' powers. Then they have the advanced tutorials thrown on their contacts list automatically to show them what isn't covered in the basic tutorial. After which they are learning about the different zones, new enemy factions to contend with, and how their later powers work. They should not be out hunting giant monsters as a new player by themselves. There are already announcements of the giant monsters spawning in the chat window. There are already experienced players recruiting to take down those GMs unless someone else already took the GM down, and those experienced players recruiting are doing so from the GM's location. So a new player that wants to tackle a GM can easily just join a GM team, go to their team or league leader, find the GM sitting there with no effort, and take down the GM without having to search the spawn points they should not even be checking yet. And even then, new players can ask absolutely anyone else currently online in the game about giant monsters and be told about them. And if for some reason they don't want to ask others for help? There is a wiki they can go to and look up giant monsters in the game. This constant "but the new players" argument is an insult to new players. Because again, they aren't stupid. New players that join the game are going to get bored if the game treats them like kindergarteners unable to figure anything out without someone holding their hands, and just makes everything a brainless activity.

 

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

Everything below is game lore stuff if you don't care about lore don't read it but Rudra brought it up so I will address it.

 

 

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

Giant Monsters most often are in zones where civilians are not. Kraken in Perez Park. Babbage and the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown. Adamastor in Echo: Dark Astoria (even when it was not an echo zone and was the active Dark Astoria zone). Jurassik in Crey's Folly. Only Eochai, Jack in Irons, and Lusca are in zones where there is a civilian populace. And in Croatoa where Eochai and Jack in Irons are, they are in parts of the map where the people don't go. Areas where things that will kill them are, so they stay away, reporting sightings as something in the woods was seen. Only Lusca is an area where people are, and even Lusca is not tracked by the city. The PPD can easily set up a cordon to make sure people stay away from Lusca, but they don't.

 

Expand  

 

remember from a narrative perspective Giant Monsters are one of a kind they just reappear for so we have repeatable content to do, you don't need a normal citizen nearby to know a Giant Monster is in a zone they are massive Monsters who could wander out of their hazard zone into a populated area at moment's notice keeping track of them is still very important. This game has satellites just like real life and from a superhero angle psychic powers exist to see the future and be warned of threats like GMs.

Giant monsters are defeated by the players in the game, not killed. That is something the game emphasizes. (Edit: Even typical giant monster movies like the Godzilla series doesn't kill the giant monster, just drives the giant monster off. Or something else enables the giant monster to return despite death like with Mothra.) Our characters per the game do not kill anyone unless the mission, story arc, or other content specifically says we do. (Edit: Like throwing that CEO out the window to Lusca who promptly eats him.) Players are the ones that say their characters killed their targets. The game has most targets we take down be defeated and go away. The criminals to jail or wherever red side. Giant monsters are toppled and go away. We do not kill them. Even the Arachnos Flier isn't killed by us. It is destroyed, but Arachnos has an entire fleet of them with replacements constantly being built. And the whole point of the war walls is to prevent anything in one zone from crossing into another zone. That is why the Galaxy City gates are sealed now. They didn't go away, they were simply closed to keep the Neo-Shivans out of the rest of the city. So no, the giant monsters cannot just leave their hazard zones and rampage in a populated area. As for player characters utilizing satellites or their psychic powers to find giant monsters? First, the satellite has to be overhead. Then the satellite has to be a spy satellite or other surveillance satellite. Yes, satellites used for Google Maps count for this. However, while the spy satellites can give real time information, satellites like what Google uses do not. Who knows how many hours old that satellite picture either showing a GM present or not is. Psychics can use their powers, sure, but that isn't something every character can do. It isn't even something every psychic character can do. And then you have the question of how large a radius that psychic character can scan at a time. Which means, you guessed it, they have to check each area in turn unless they are a global psychic style character. And the game doesn't have player characters of that magnitude. (Edit: We can define our characters as being that powerful all we want, but the game does not allow for that magnitude of power.)

 

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

common sense says that yes the PDD would should do this for lusca but they don't because its alot of dev work to animate NPCs and have events cause zone wide changes,

Containing Lusca does not require a zone-wide change. Containing Lusca can entail the same things we see with the Zig Breakout event and the Troll Rave event. The (non-interactable) PPD are spawned as part of the GM event at the GM location. They would have a wider cordon for it being a giant monster and would probably see Ascended and the bots as the containing forces. Then when the event concludes, either because players defeated Lusca or the server reset, they despawn just like the other events. No zone changes required at all.

 

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

Villainy does not mean just let all civilians die and not care about them at all, even from an evil organization perspective controlling normal humans still represents power for Arachnos it's easier to control the weak and order them to produce the goods and services you want if there is order, a giant monster rampaging in cities is instead chaos that's how you getting normal zones turning into hazard zones.

I never said Arachnos just lets all civilians die. I said they view everything as survival of the fittest, the strong survive and the weak die (or hide). This is made abundantly clear at many points in the game. Especially a Rogue morality where Arachnos tries to hire you to wipe out an entire neighborhood of people to kill a single escaped Bane Spider. (Edit: Let that part sink in. Arachnos tries to hire the player to completely wipe out an entire neighborhood for the sake of making sure a single Bane Spider is killed. And when you refuse, they have an arsenal of missiles from Malta they are going to launch to completely eradicate said neighborhood anyway, which they were originally going to use to silence you at the end of the mission....) Arachnos maintains a force at any parts of the Rogue Isles where they actually care about people. For instance, the heart of Cap au Diable has Arachnos forces stationed at every entrance/approach to protect the area. Grandville has security at the docks, along the wall perimeter, and any point where they want to keep the Arachnoids out. The rest of Grandville? Arachnoids eat people constantly, and beyond Arachnos deploying abatement teams to keep Arachnoid numbers down, doesn't put any effort into protecting the people of the Gutter. (Ghost of) Scrapyard is not hostile to the people. He only attacks Arachnos, Cage Consortium, and the Family. (Edit again: Oh yeah, and Banished Pantheon and Circle of Thorns, but they are also known to be hostile to civilians.) That is part of his background. He will not attack the civilians. And he doesn't go to the secured area of Sharkhead Isle which is the only real part of Sharkhead Isle that Arachnos cares about. So yes, Arachnos is perfectly fine with random civilians dying. They control the media. They control whether or not anyone outside the Isles finds out they are letting people die. And as you can see in Grandville, there are a lot of people trying to get in. As far as Arachnos is concerned, only Grandville is really important, everywhere else is little more than a proving ground and place to hold things at a safe distance. And even Grandville is allowed to suffer continuous predation by the Arachnoids, which the Arachnos Flier is out hunting on its patrol.

 

1 hour ago, Mystoc said:

 

lastly you keep mentioning GMs are in hazard zones or that Caleb is on an Island we know has players in this game world they can't leave those zones or areas but that is not how it would be viewed at all with real life logic at all..  Perez Park is surrounded by 4 city zones with huge populations centers on all sides, those four cities are safe for now but that doesn't mean that danger PP has can't spill over to these zones, the game gives us one neat entrance and exit that connects the zones but that's just game logic to simplify exploration for the player.

As I stated earlier in this post, Paragon City has the war walls to stop giant monsters from leaving the hazard zones and Arachnos only cares about critical infrastructure.

Edited Wednesday at 09:36 PM by Rudra
Edited to correct "games" to "game".

[Ghost]

Something tells me that "new players" are not nearly as stupid as some on here want us to believe.

 

[UltraAlt]

7 hours ago, Mystoc said:

I'm not a dev and neither are you we are really just guessing here

 

No. I'm not part of the Homecoming team.

 

7 hours ago, Mystoc said:

they already do this for zone events like fires and trolls raves is it really that different to do giant monsters as well?

 

I would assume that if it was easy enough to do, then it would have been done already.

I would say that maybe it wasn't done because the Giant Monsters can appear in different locations, but the Steel Canyon fires aren't all in the same place (and as buildings tend to be duplicated in different zones, why can't there be fire events in other zones that happen to buildings that are the same model as the ones where fires happen in Steel Canyon? Are they all the same building model where fires happen in Steel Canyon? I honestly haven't paid attention when I have fought fires in Steel Canyon. Sometimes I think about making a fire fighter character just to fight fires in Steel Canyon ... but I just think about it.)

 

Troll Raves are a sad thing. I remember when the used to be a big deal. It would probably be a good idea at this point to make them con to the level of teams/solo characters attacking them at this point so that higher level characters would be inclined to get involved (as it seems at this point at least 50% of players only want to play level 50 characters - I'm not among them, but that seems to be the case).

 

7 hours ago, Mystoc said:

I'm not saying constantly keep track of the giant monster in real time just mark on the map where the spawn happened. 

 

I would agree that this is the best that we would likely get.

I didn't think you were implying that Giant Monster's current location would be tracked on the map.

 

7 hours ago, Mystoc said:

lastly remember this feature would not be forced on people who still like being surprised and hunting for GMs showing them could be toggled off like can be done for other notable things on the zone map.

 

Do you see a "Zone Event" toggle?

Maybe it is the "Special" selection. I'm not sure. I'll have to check the next time I'm able to get to a fire before the building blows up ... who fights those things at this point?

(Sometimes I think about making a fire fighter character just to fight fires in Steel Canyon ... but I just think about it.)

 

[lemming]

Just as an aside, GM spawn locations are in vidiot maps.

[tidge]

5 hours ago, Mystoc said:

so you think its better that each player have a random chance to guess correctly and find the GM fast or slow? say the multiboxer is lucky and finds the GM within 30 seconds and then new player who wants to also participate take 2 minutes according to you they can defeat these GMs somewhat fast so now the other player misses out.. why does it make more sense to leave it chance in your mind?

 

If the GMs are marked on the map, it won't take anyone 30 seconds to see if one is in the zone.

 

Multi-boxers typically don't wait for other players. Even when a multi-boxer announces something like an upcoming summons of Adamastor, I don't see the same player announcing it every time they summon Adamastor. Aside from Adamastor, the multi-boxers for other GMs generally have to look for a GM in the zone, and once it is found the alts pop out of the SG Base, get Incandescended to the GM and one (or more) pop Lores... the fights generally do not last long. The only thing slowing this down is the need to look for the GM in the zone.

 

There are a handful of GM that are HARD (but not impossible) to multi-box with 3 characters: Lusca (because multiple GMs attacking), a multi-spawn of Paladins (similar reasons as Lusca), and nuEochai... ironically, nuEochai should be easier (because Fire) for certain characters that spend a LOT of time standing around in "fire" content... but Eochai can chew through typical roll-the-face-across-the-keyboard play, and it can be especially cruel to Lore pets. The Giant Monsters are NOT trivial, but they require a certain type of focus on a build... and some small amount of strategy...and like a LOT of content Incarnate powers make them much easier to deal with. Prior to the multiple rounds of GM upgrades, the design space for solo defeating GMs was a LOT wider than it is now.

 

The folks who regularly solo GMs already have this down to a science... giving them (us!) a tool like a GM tracker would make it even easier. There really is no "chance", except in the opposite direction of what you are considering... there is a chance that a solo GM hunter will waste their time searching a zone for a monster that isn't there. If we got monster trackers, the solo GM hunters won't have to waste their time cruising zones... it is literally just going to be a pop-in to check. We already have "GM hunters" who don't reset things like the vale event, that is pretty much the measuring stick for just how lazy a GM hunter can be.

 

During Halloween season, the only real rate limiter is travel between spawn points, and the occasional dim bulb that doesn't clear an entire spawn. I exaggerate (but only slightly) as the GM corpse has to de-rez and there is a slight delay before the next one spawns.

[Mystoc]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Again with the new players. A truly new player knows absolutely nothing about the game other than what they learn through the tutorial (assuming they opted to go through one of them) and what they previously discovered from friends talking about the game or other sources they found that piqued their interest. And let me emphasize this next part: new players are not stupid. They don't need anyone to hold their hand and tell them every little part of the game when they first start playing. When they first start playing, their focus should be on learning the mechanics of their chosen AT and selected power sets' powers. Then they have the advanced tutorials thrown on their contacts list automatically to show them what isn't covered in the basic tutorial. After which they are learning about the different zones, new enemy factions to contend with, and how their later powers work. They should not be out hunting giant monsters as a new player by themselves. There are already announcements of the giant monsters spawning in the chat window. There are already experienced players recruiting to take down those GMs unless someone else already took the GM down, and those experienced players recruiting are doing so from the GM's location. So a new player that wants to tackle a GM can easily just join a GM team, go to their team or league leader, find the GM sitting there with no effort, and take down the GM without having to search the spawn points they should not even be checking yet. And even then, new players can ask absolutely anyone else currently online in the game about giant monsters and be told about them. And if for some reason they don't want to ask others for help? There is a wiki they can go to and look up giant monsters in the game. This constant "but the new players" argument is an insult to new players. Because again, they aren't stupid. New players that join the game are going to get bored if the game treats them like kindergarteners unable to figure anything out without someone holding their hands, and just makes everything a brainless activity.

 

the devs recently just removed the old incarnate crafting recipes because were too costly compared to the new options homecoming added and confused new players, I don't need to convince you the devs want to make the game easier to understand since its already happening.

 

you call marking major events on the map hand holding I call it common sense, so we agree to disagree here it seems.

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Giant monsters are defeated by the players in the game, not killed. That is something the game emphasizes. (Edit: Even typical giant monster movies like the Godzilla series doesn't kill the giant monster, just drives the giant monster off. Or something else enables the giant monster to return despite death like with Mothra.) Our characters per the game do not kill anyone unless the mission, story arc, or other content specifically says we do. (Edit: Like throwing that CEO out the window to Lusca who promptly eats him.) Players are the ones that say their characters killed their targets. The game has most targets we take down be defeated and go away. The criminals to jail or wherever red side. Giant monsters are toppled and go away. We do not kill them. Even the Arachnos Flier isn't killed by us. It is destroyed, but Arachnos has an entire fleet of them with replacements constantly being built. And the whole point of the war walls is to prevent anything in one zone from crossing into another zone. That is why the Galaxy City gates are sealed now. They didn't go away, they were simply closed to keep the Neo-Shivans out of the rest of the city. So no, the giant monsters cannot just leave their hazard zones and rampage in a populated area. As for player characters utilizing satellites or their psychic powers to find giant monsters? First, the satellite has to be overhead. Then the satellite has to be a spy satellite or other surveillance satellite. Yes, satellites used for Google Maps count for this. However, while the spy satellites can give real time information, satellites like what Google uses do not. Who knows how many hours old that satellite picture either showing a GM present or not is. Psychics can use their powers, sure, but that isn't something every character can do. It isn't even something every psychic character can do. And then you have the question of how large a radius that psychic character can scan at a time. Which means, you guessed it, they have to check each area in turn unless they are a global psychic style character. And the game doesn't have player characters of that magnitude. (Edit: We can define our characters as being that powerful all we want, but the game does not allow for that magnitude of power.)

 

the badge for defeating jack irons is called "Giant Killer" what does kill mean to you?

 

why would heroes be defeating GMs to just let them go so they can recover again and rampage and go on to end more innocent lives, you can't send a GM to jail and rehabilitate them they are mostly mindless monstrosities that cannot be reasoned with or be contained.

 

in no world does it ever make sense to leave Giant Monsters be after defeating them, they only respawn because they are repeatable game content why would heroes be sparing them?

 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

Containing Lusca does not require a zone-wide change. Containing Lusca can entail the same things we see with the Zig Breakout event and the Troll Rave event. The (non-interactable) PPD are spawned as part of the GM event at the GM location. They would have a wider cordon for it being a giant monster and would probably see Ascended and the bots as the containing forces. Then when the event concludes, either because players defeated Lusca or the server reset, they despawn just like the other events. No zone changes required at all.

 

I think we both agree the PPD could be more to help evacuate populated area's when GMs Appear they just don't because the devs haven't gotten around to it yet which is fair since we know they add other awesome content every patch.

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

I never said Arachnos just lets all civilians die. I said they view everything as survival of the fittest, the strong survive and the weak die (or hide). This is made abundantly clear at many points in the game. Especially a Rogue morality where Arachnos tries to hire you to wipe out an entire neighborhood of people to kill a single escaped Bane Spider. (Edit: Let that part sink in. Arachnos tries to hire the player to completely wipe out an entire neighborhood for the sake of making sure a single Bane Spider is killed. And when you refuse, they have an arsenal of missiles from Malta they are going to launch to completely eradicate said neighborhood anyway, which they were originally going to use to silence you at the end of the mission....) Arachnos maintains a force at any parts of the Rogue Isles where they actually care about people. For instance, the heart of Cap au Diable has Arachnos forces stationed at every entrance/approach to protect the area. Grandville has security at the docks, along the wall perimeter, and any point where they want to keep the Arachnoids out. The rest of Grandville? Arachnoids eat people constantly, and beyond Arachnos deploying abatement teams to keep Arachnoid numbers down, doesn't put any effort into protecting the people of the Gutter. (Ghost of) Scrapyard is not hostile to the people. He only attacks Arachnos, Cage Consortium, and the Family. (Edit again: Oh yeah, and Banished Pantheon and Circle of Thorns, but they are also known to be hostile to civilians.) That is part of his background. He will not attack the civilians. And he doesn't go to the secured area of Sharkhead Isle which is the only real part of Sharkhead Isle that Arachnos cares about. So yes, Arachnos is perfectly fine with random civilians dying. They control the media. They control whether or not anyone outside the Isles finds out they are letting people die. And as you can see in Grandville, there are a lot of people trying to get in. As far as Arachnos is concerned, only Grandville is really important, everywhere else is little more than a proving ground and place to hold things at a safe distance. And even Grandville is allowed to suffer continuous predation by the Arachnoids, which the Arachnos Flier is out hunting on its patrol.

 

small scale things happen and people die and villains don't generally care I agree but they DO care about major events the disrupt public order which giant monsters cause villains view these cities and their populations has a resource to be used up and exploited but only by them, GMs challenge Arachnos authority which is enough reason to care and want them gone as soon as possible.

 

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

As I stated earlier in this post, Paragon City has the war walls to stop giant monsters from leaving the hazard zones and Arachnos only cares about critical infrastructure.

 

these war walls can be broken and aren't fool proof when rikti invasions happens the war walls fall if rikti ship can do so can a GM. if these force field walls stopped everything they would be used everywhere for everything not just separating zones.

 

War Walls are just a game narrative to explain why you can only enter other zones at set points on the map at the time game released open world game content was just not possible even today 20+ years later it's not easy to pull off.

 

Edited yesterday at 01:11 AM by Mystoc

[Rudra]

59 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

the devs recently just removed the old incarnate crafting recipes because were too costly compared to the new options homecoming added and confused new players, I don't need to convince you the devs want to make the game easier to understand since its already happening.

They were moved to Prometheus.

 

59 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

the badge for defeating jack irons is called "Giant Killer" what does kill mean to you?

 

why would heroes be defeating GMs to just let them go so they can recover again and rampage and go on to end more innocent lives, you can't send a GM to jail and rehabilitate them they are mostly mindless monstrosities that cannot be reasoned with or be contained.

 

in no world does it ever make sense to leave Giant Monsters be after defeating them, they only respawn because they are repeatable game content why would heroes be sparing them?

Jack in Irons, like Eochai, is a spirit, a supernatural being from beyond the world. The only thing you can really do to him is banish him back where he came from. Congrats, you got the Giant Killer badge, but the war continues (as per the story) and Jack in Irons will return just like Eochai.

 

59 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

small scale things happen and people die and villains don't generally care I agree but they DO care about major events the disrupt public order which giant monsters cause villains view these cities and their populations has a resource to be used up and exploited but only by them, GMs challenge Arachnos authority which is enough reason to care and want them gone as soon as possible.

Because leveling an entire neighborhood, killing everyone in it, is such a small scale activity. This game is not real life. It is a comic book we are playing in. In real life, every leader or government has to worry about taking care of their people to some degree. In a comic book, characters and organizations, even governments, can be out to destroy the world, conquer the world regardless of how many die in the process, and worse. In a comic book world, a government like Arachnos can be perfectly fine with letting most of their population die to see how many are strong enough, smart enough, or otherwise capable enough to survive on their own as long as their own assets are not destroyed in the process and not be a contradiction. Especially for things as small scale and defined as limited in scope as Deathsurge (all the Gremlins are supposed to only exist within a set radius of the main power lines and that includes Deathsurge) and (Ghost of) Scrapyard who is known to not himself be destructive. Or Caleb who is known to remain at his island while Arachnos already has anti-ghost and spirit technology ready to employ should Caleb for any reason move against them. For crying out loud, Arachnos moves people into the Gutter unless they are worth having elsewhere. And all indications are they are put there to be food for the Arachnoids that have intentionally been let loose.

 

59 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

these war walls can be broken and aren't fool proof when rikti invasions happens the war walls fall if rikti ship can do so can a GM. if these force field walls stopped everything they would be used everywhere for everything not just separating zones.

The war walls have only been broken in one area: Siren's Call. For the Rikti invasions, the energy fields of the war walls fail and so the Rikti are able to send their ships to attack. There is no giant monster anywhere in the game other than the Kronos Titan (edit: or the Goliath War Walker) with the capability of taking down the war walls itself. Even the Kronos Titan (edit: or Goliath War Walker) would have to spend an inordinate amount of time attacking a specific section of the war wall to collapse it, and it is a dedicated war machine. What is Jurassik going to do? Pound away at it with its car? It will be left hammering away at the war walls with its bare fists because its car will be immediately crumpled on impact. (Edit: Let alone giant monsters like Kraken who won't even be able to damage the walls at all. Or Lusca who would have no reason to leave the water where it can presumably find food to sustain it versus the tiny humans that it would need to expend more energy gathering and eating than we would provide it. Or Babbage in Boomtown who is motivated by the Clockwork King's plans rather than a mindless beast's desire to rampage.) And the time it will take Jurassik to hammer away at the war wall and get it to collapse, just for a small section, will probably take at least several days. And if Jurassik or the Kronos Titan were to stage an assault on the war walls? There is already a military response available for the mayor to call up beyond the hero response, which would also include the Freedom Phalanx and Vindicators. Those walls aren't coming down to to the giant monsters. Have you realized just how massively thick those walls are? And they are described as being reinforced even beyond their ridiculous thickness.

 

59 minutes ago, Mystoc said:

War Walls are just a game narrative to explain why you can only enter other zones at set points on the map at the time game released open world game content was just not possible even today 20+ years later it's not easy to pull off.

Exactly. The war walls are a game narrative that says access to any of the zones can only happen by passing through the designated openings in the war walls. Their construction isn't just not easy to pull off. It is excessively over the top. You're talking about major dam sized construction, reinforced beyond even that architectural robustness for alien (actually alternate dimension human) attacks with advanced weapons. They aren't impregnable, but the amount of power it would take to break down just one small section is insane given how the game describes it. And because it is part of the game's story, regardless of the reason why they exist, they have to be accounted for. And that means the giant monsters of the game aren't getting past them. Not without a lot of time and energy devoted to it. Time that would give the city, the military, and the various super groups (both player and NPC) opportunity to respond and put a stop to before any major damage is inflicted on the walls.

 

And all that? Is just from a lore perspective. When you get down to the mechanics of it? Adding giant monster markers would make it even easier for players to pop in, see no monster on the map, and then move on to the next zone for their monster hunts. Or if a monster announcement comes up, pop in to the zone, already know where the monster is, and put it down. You want new players to be able to get involved? Then don't make it even easier for the monster hunter players to fast clear the monsters by removing their need to check all the spawn points.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:00 AM by Rudra

[Rudra]

18 hours ago, Mystoc said:

why would heroes be defeating GMs to just let them go so they can recover again and rampage and go on to end more innocent lives, you can't send a GM to jail and rehabilitate them they are mostly mindless monstrosities that cannot be reasoned with or be contained.

Oh yeah, we should probably discuss the permanence of "killing" giant monsters in City of Heroes/Villains. Let's start with Paragon City.

 

Babbage, Paladin, and the Monstrous Construction: These are psychically held together bits of scrap metal animated by the Clockwork King's mind to accomplish what only he knows. Go ahead and take them down all you want. He'll make more when he's ready.

 

Adamastor: He was banished a long time ago. He only manifests when the summoning ritual in Dark Astoria (now Echo: Dark Astoria) is completed. Take him down all you want. All you're really doing is taking down his physical world manifestation. He'll be back with the next summons.

 

Eochai and Jack in Irons: These chosen champions of the Firbolg and Red Caps respectively are bound to their eternal war. Jack in Irons was found by the Red Caps in the spirit realm and brought to Croatoa. The Firbolg and Tuatha de Danan are bound to forever come back until the war is ended by the Red Caps. Kill all the Firbolg and Tuatha de Danan you want, they can't stay dead. And Jack will just shift back to the spirit realm until the Red Caps manage to get him back to the physical world. Still no permanent giant monster deaths.

 

Lusca: This impossibly large octopus dives after each defeat, bringing less force to bear as it tires from its injuries. Defeating Lusca causes it to dive. No corpse floats there. It got away.

 

Kronos Class Titan and Goliath War Walker: These are hardly unique entities. In one arc, you see several Goliath War Walkers lined up around the room and fight multiples of them to cross the map in another mission. Not as powerful as the shielded one in Boomtown, but obviously as a man-made construct, another can be built. The Kronos Titan is in the same boat. You see two of them in one mission. Take these giant monsters down and you place a severe dent in the finances of their respective manufacturers, but that won't stop them from making more. There is even a Giant Mek-Man that rivals both of these giant monsters that in some future missions are shown in (small) numbers scattered across the map. Still no permanent deaths.

 

Sally: Flees the moment anyone hits her with anything.

 

Kraken: This giant monster is described as a mutation of the Hydra Spawn. So if you kill it, assuming its lack of recognizable physiology allows our attacks to actually do so, another can still mutate into existence. (Edit again: Oh yeah, and we already know there are at least two in existence at the same time. There is the one in Perez Park and the one locked away by the Rikti as a guard in the Abandoned Sewer Network. So while we don't know the frequency of mutation, we do know it is at least an irregular uncommon occurrence.)

 

Jurassik: This is the only giant monster blue side I am not sure about. Maybe it actually is unique and when defeated would go away forever. Or maybe another Granite will mutate into a new Jurassik. Unclear, but still not likely a permanent death.

 

On to the Rogue Isles.

 

Deathsurge: This electrical demon is not a separate entity in full. Like the Gremlins that plague the power centers of Cap au Diable, Deathsurge is a manifestation of the power harvested from Bat'Zul. As long as Bat'Zul remains the power source, the Gremlins will exist. As long as the Gremlins exist, another Deathsurge can appear.

 

Ghost of Scrapyard: This mountain of a man is already dead. Captain Mako killed him. The Scrapyarders keep calling him back with prayer and magic ritual. You can't kill what is already dead. Take him down all you want. As long as the Scrapyarders are oppressed, they will keep calling to their champion, and he will keep answering.

 

Caleb: The ultimate spectral demon, Caleb arrives in response to attacks on the other spectral demons. Not driven by madness, hunger, or other apparent reason beyond responding to the assault on the spectral demons, defeating him causes dissolution, not death. He can and will return.

 

The Arachnos Flier: Another man-made construct, Arachnos has an entire fleet at their disposal with more being built. You can get one for yourself (briefly) in one of the SSA arcs. You can also see multiples of them in zone. These are the Black Helicopter Line transports, the PvP zone transports, and even specific mission transports. Only the one in Grandville engaged in anti-Arachnoid patrols or the TF are valid for the badge and can be attacked. Take it down and earn Arachnos' (angry) respect. They will field another though. They have lots.

 

And then Praetoria.

 

Seed of Hamidon: This colossal assault organism is known to not be unique. You face it in First Ward and Last Bastion. You also see several assaulting Imperial City when Praetoria falls. Still not permanent death as in once defeated you will never see another.

 

So except for maybe Jurassik, all players do is temporarily stop the giant monsters. Giant monsters are a fact of life in Paragon City.

 

Edited 21 hours ago by Rudra
Edited to correct "your" to "you're", and "Yo" to "You".

[Mystoc]

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

 

Exactly. The war walls are a game narrative that says access to any of the zones can only happen by passing through the designated openings in the war walls. Their construction isn't just not easy to pull off. It is excessively over the top. You're talking about major dam sized construction, reinforced beyond even that architectural robustness for alien (actually alternate dimension human) attacks with advanced weapons. They aren't impregnable, but the amount of power it would take to break down just one small section is insane given how the game describes it. And because it is part of the game's story, regardless of the reason why they exist, they have to be accounted for. And that means the giant monsters of the game aren't getting past them. Not without a lot of time and energy devoted to it. Time that would give the city, the military, and the various super groups (both player and NPC) opportunity to respond and put a stop to before any major damage is inflicted on the walls.

 

I personally think you are much too focused on the explaining lore wise why the changes don't fit, however I respect you took time to explain your thoughts in such a detailed well-structured manner though which was why I was trying to do the same in return.

 

ultimately though I think this change does not conflict with games lore at all if they wanted to add this in the playerbase would not think it odd or conflicting at all, it's the norm in online game to mark events happening on the map which fighting a Giant Monster surely is.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

And all that? Is just from a lore perspective. When you get down to the mechanics of it? Adding giant monster markers would make it even easier for players to pop in, see no monster on the map, and then move on to the next zone for their monster hunts. Or if a monster announcement comes up, pop in to the zone, already know where the monster is, and put it down. You want new players to be able to get involved? Then don't make it even easier for the monster hunter players to fast clear the monsters by removing their need to check all the spawn points.

 

 

it really comes down to this

• you think marking GMs on the map is to over the top hand holding that dumbs down the game for new players.
• I think it's great feature for the game that promotes teaming and players working together to take down a foe that could not be defeated alone.

 

I don't see a future where we end up convincing the other to change stances on this Rudra so I thank you for your feedback and insights into the games lore and wish you a great day.

 

Edited yesterday at 02:29 PM by Mystoc