The Great Archetype Concept Battle [Round 3]: Right Bracket

[Zepp]

Welcome to The Great Archetype Concept Battle. This is a set of polls wherein proposed Archetypes go head to head to determine community interest. The Polls will be open for approximately one week and the brackets will be updated weekly. The goal is to come up with a single proposed archetype concept that the whole community can rally behind.

Voting should be based, in principle, on Feasibility, Niche, & Interest.

 

Feasibility: 1 (difficult to balance, requires a large amount of set development, etc.) to 10 (could be in-game tomorrow)

Niche: 1 (is already addressed by another AT) to 10 (there is a hole in the game that this would fill)

Interest: 1 (I wouldn't play it) to 10 (I plan to make at least 20 alts in this AT)

 

Your Contestants!

 

Battle 1: Protector v Instigator

Protector (19.07.25.00.33.xx)

Melee/{Support/Armor}

Honor & Glory: Glory builds stacks through melee attacks and dissipates through inaction or use of buffs, it grants increased buff efficacy.

Protectors juggle between support and dps providing teammates with much-needed support while also helping out with clearing the field.

 

Instigator (19.05.27.09.36.28)

Assault/{Armor/Control}

Toggle (Stalwart, Striker, Support): Stalwart acts like Power Boost, Striker damage bonus, Support converts toggles to AoE and adds an AoE heal chance to attacks.

Instigators are less jack-of-all-trades than gapfills. They have the versatility to change roles as per what the team needs. They are what people who don't play Kheldians think Kheldians are.

 

Battle 2: Guardian v Defiler

Guardian (19.05.23.15.57.29)

Support/Melee

Coverage: Ally buffs also buff the Guardian. Scaling HP boost per nearby enemies.

Guardians offer support from within the fray.

 

Defiler (19.06.09.22.12.59)

Melee/{Support/Armor}

[placeholder]: A defensive bonus which decreases with teammates paired with a secondary effect bonus which increases with teammates.

Defilers are focused on debuffing enemies and buffing allies from the fray.

[Zepp]

Battle 1: Protector v Instigator

Protector

Feasibility: 6 - The creation and balancing of secondary sets would take some effort.

Niche: 5 - I can see this as sufficiently different from a scrapper, but not sure if I would choose it over a scrapper.

Interest:  3 - Might as well make a scrapper.

 

Instigator (19.05.27.09.36.28)

Feasibility: 6 - The secondary sets may take a while to fine-tune and I see balance issues as taking some time (the inherent seems inherently unbalancing). - increased because of similarity to Guardian from beta.

Niche: 5 - It is a unique role, but the question is whether it would feel necessary

Interest: 4 - It would be fun to play with the powersets and see what I could make it do, but I do not see it as a mainstay.

 

Winner: Instigator

---

Battle 2: Guardian v Defiler

Guardian

Feasibility: 6 - While easy to port powersets, I see balance issues as taking some time, especially with the first part of the inherent.

Niche: 4 - It seems to be competing for a niche with Defender.

Interest: 2 - It would be fun, but I do not really see why I would choose it over a Defender.

 

Defiler (19.06.09.22.12.59)

Feasibility: 5 - The secondary sets may take a while to fine-tune and I see balance issues as taking some time.

Niche: 6 - This is definitely in the DPS camp, but with a different approach to other DPSers out there.

Interest: 5 - I think this is the best frontline support proposal I've read through.

 

Winner: Defiler

 

[Pbuckley818]

O-O How am I beating Instigator, but can't get a lick of useful feedback...

 

I know my design ain't that good.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Pbuckley818

[Steampunkette]

Just now, Pbuckley818 said:

O-O How am I beating Instigator, but can't get a lick of useful feedback...

 

I know my design ain't that good. Is Protector just the most straight forward Meleefender suggestion?

Because it's the Instigator Take 2 that is popular.

 

And yeah. A whoooole lot of people want a Melee-Fender. To the point where I'm pretty sure the Instigator Take 2 is gonna get kicked off the competition by one.

[Pbuckley818]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

Because it's the Instigator Take 2 that is popular.

 

And yeah. A whoooole lot of people want a Melee-Fender. To the point where I'm pretty sure the Instigator Take 2 is gonna get kicked off the competition by one.

I won't lie. This is an injustice, both Instigator's are great designs, and fit into the one other missing AT slot other than Melee-Fender, Ranged Tank.

 

As much as I want a Melee-Fender it would be a shame if neither Instigator made it any further simply do to that. Especially with how much more feasible it would be to see in game.

[Steampunkette]

Apparently there was or is a "Guardian" AT in the files which is Assault/Defense. Though I think the team took that idea and made the Sentinel out of it, rather than it being something we can expect.

[Pbuckley818]

3 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Apparently there was or is a "Guardian" AT in the files which is Assault/Defense. Though I think the team took that idea and made the Sentinel out of it, rather than it being something we can expect.

If that is the case, that's quite the shame. Sentinal is probably one of the most redundant/game breaking AT's in the game.

[Zepp]

On 8/27/2019 at 12:18 AM, GM Widower said:

The Guardian AT was an experiment undertaken on Closed Beta some years ago which, I'm told, was found unenjoyable by most people. I suppose it's possible it might be revisited at some point in the future, but it's not in the cards for us right now. We wish Rebirth the best of luck with it, though.

 

(And before you ask - it's apparently Assault primaries with a weird combo of armor and support secondaries, or something like that.)

This is the word from GM Widower... Not sure about the inherent...

[Steampunkette]

... well... Here's hoping the Instigator Take 2 is different enough to be fun or at least examined seriously.

 

[Zepp]

They are trying it out on a different server (CoH Rebirth), if you want more info... I really like the look of their Hellfire Assault...

[Widower]

1 hour ago, Steampunkette said:

Apparently there was or is a "Guardian" AT in the files which is Assault/Defense. Though I think the team took that idea and made the Sentinel out of it, rather than it being something we can expect.

That's a fascinating rumor. Wonder where it started? :P

 

Anyway, no. Sentinel was made by Powerhouse at the request of a very persistent advocate of blast/armor pretty early on; Guardian (which is Assault/Composition, Composition being an unholy mix of support and armor powers, with a Killing Blow inherent) was made by a Closed Beta player later who didn't quite make it to the standards desired and is now being sold to Rebirth to stick it to Leo or something. Guardian in that form is incredibly unlikely to ever make it here.

 

But enough about that, please proceed.

[Steampunkette]

AH HAH! I have lured you into my cunning trap!

 

8 minutes ago, GM Widower said:

But enough about that, please proceed.

What do you think of the ATs above? Have you voted? 😉

[Zepp]

They changed the inherent for the Rebirth servers "Their Inherent, Resolve, currently applies a stacking area of effect absorb effect on allies when the Guardian assists in defeating a foe."

 

And also, "As some may be aware, Guardians are neither an original idea to Rebirth nor are they a creation of Paragon Studios. I’ll cut right to the chase: Guardians were initially developed for the SCoRE private server. The author of that work came to us to see if we would be interested in picking up the Guardian’s torch to carry on Rebirth after being rejected in favor of Sentinels years ago . . . Guardians are our first major foray into the world of keeping to the spirit of City of Heroes while contributing what we can to continue its legacy into the future. Speaking of the future, Guardian for the time-being is exclusive to Rebirth, per its author’s wishes. However, once we have some more content under our belt, everyone involved has agreed to release Guardian to the public for any server to implement, should they wish to." (emphasis added).

 

Their version of Infernal Assault (while not as good as my proposal of course), also looks quite fun...

[Rathulfr]

7 hours ago, Pbuckley818 said:

If that is the case, that's quite the shame. Sentinal is probably one of the most redundant/game breaking AT's in the game.

I disagree with you.  I don't find them either redundant or game-breaking.  If they were redundant, nobody would play them.  If they were game-breaking, everybody would play them.  Neither is the case, so neither is the case.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Rathulfr

[Pbuckley818]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

I disagree with you.  I don't find them either redundant or game-breaking.  If they were redundant, nobody would play them.  If they were game-breaking, everybody would play them.  Neither is the case, so neither is the case.

I disagree, they are redundant in PvE where almost no one plays them (Better to have a blaster), and game breaking in PvP where almost everyone plays them Blaster+Armor. It's both incredibly weak, and overpowered depending on the game mode. I am not saying it has no place in the game, but I'd personally would rather have seen something more like the Instigator or the Protector, that would provide a more intriguing playstyle as opposed to what is essentially a less exciting version of an existing AT (A Blaster with lower Risk/Reward).

8 hours ago, GM Widower said:

That's a fascinating rumor. Wonder where it started? 😛

 

Anyway, no. Sentinel was made by Powerhouse at the request of a very persistent advocate of blast/armor pretty early on; Guardian (which is Assault/Composition, Composition being an unholy mix of support and armor powers, with a Killing Blow inherent) was made by a Closed Beta player later who didn't quite make it to the standards desired and is now being sold to Rebirth to stick it to Leo or something. Guardian in that form is incredibly unlikely to ever make it here.

 

But enough about that, please proceed.

An unholy mix of support and armor powers sounds a lot like the primary suggestion for making a Melee-Fender viable. I'd be curious to no more about this version of the Guardian so as to avoid making the same mistakes with Melee-Fender designs.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Pbuckley818

[Rathulfr]

12 hours ago, Pbuckley818 said:

An unholy mix of support and armor powers sounds a lot like the primary suggestion for making a Melee-Fender viable. I'd be curious to no more about this version of the Guardian so as to avoid making the same mistakes with Melee-Fender designs.

 

As far as I can tell from the descriptions on the Rebirth forums and Reddit, the Guardian appears to be an unholy mix of Dominator + Scrapper.  It's got a mix of ranged and melee attack powers, along with some armor powers.  It seems like a jack of all trades and master of none, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on how it's played.  Rebirth pulled the patch at the last minute, so I haven't had a chance to play with it.

 

I'd much rather have a truly dedicated support/melee AT, like WoW's Paladin, who can tank or heal, depending on their spec.  If that's one of the options in this poll, I'm all for it.

 

[Pbuckley818]

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

 

As far as I can tell from the descriptions on the Rebirth forums and Reddit, the Guardian appears to be an unholy mix of Dominator + Scrapper.  It's got a mix of ranged and melee attack powers, along with some armor powers.  It seems like a jack of all trades and master of none, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on how it's played.  Rebirth pulled the patch at the last minute, so I haven't had a chance to play with it.

 

I'd much rather have a truly dedicated support/melee AT, like WoW's Paladin, who can tank or heal, depending on their spec.  If that's one of the options in this poll, I'm all for it.

 

Most people have been working on trying to create a Scrapper/Defender Hybrid. Their was a Paladin AT concept, but it lost pretty early in the race. Ultimately it's hard enough to bake a working Melee/Support AT without trying to make it able to tank. That being said, creating Melee/Armor powersets alongside picking a support Powerset, could be a reasonable solution to our problem... So maybe that's just what we need to build a proper Melee/Support AT. Maybe give it a Inherent where it swaps between Tanking and Group Support via a toggle? I wonder if anyone would go for that... Perhaps their will soon be a Protector take two in the works...

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, Pbuckley818 said:

Most people have been working on trying to create a Scrapper/Defender Hybrid. Their was a Paladin AT concept, but it lost pretty early in the race. Ultimately it's hard enough to bake a working Melee/Support AT without trying to make it able to tank. That being said, creating Melee/Armor powersets alongside picking a support Powerset, could be a reasonable solution to our problem... So maybe that's just what we need to build a proper Melee/Support AT. Maybe give it a Inherent where it swaps between Tanking and Group Support via a toggle? I wonder if anyone would go for that... Perhaps their will soon be a Protector take two in the works...

 

Scrapper/Defender?  Uh... Ok...?  I guess...?  I can't quite wrap my head around that concept.  Forgive for coming late to the conversation: I've missed all of the predecessor discussions, so just ignore me.  Thanks!

[Pbuckley818]

Just now, Rathulfr said:

 

Scrapper/Defender?  Uh... Ok...?  I guess...?  I can't quite wrap my head around that concept.  Forgive for coming late to the conversation: I've missed all of the predecessor discussions, so just ignore me.  Thanks!

Not necessarily a damage class with group support though their have been plenty suggesting such a thing. But basically a Defender with Melee and Scrapper level defense. If that makes any sense to you. 

[Rathulfr]

1 minute ago, Pbuckley818 said:

Not necessarily a damage class with group support though their have been plenty suggesting such a thing. But basically a Defender with Melee and Scrapper level defense. If that makes any sense to you. 

It makes as much sense as a Blaster with Scrapper level defense does to you.  😉

[Zepp]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

 

Scrapper/Defender?  Uh... Ok...?  I guess...?  I can't quite wrap my head around that concept.  Forgive for coming late to the conversation: I've missed all of the predecessor discussions, so just ignore me.  Thanks!

It's all good. Check the link in my sig to see the ATs proposed thus far and follow links to get the full write-ups of each of those proposals. Feel free to vote and/or offer opinions as that is the point of these threads. What would you like to see in a new AT?

Btw, three of four of the Quarterfinal matches are officially tied at this moment.

[Zepp]

Just over six hours left for you to cast your vote!