Neiska

Great, now they are going to use Climate Change as another reason for the next farming change. Thanks @Snarky! 😆 (pretext - just poking fun.)

You know, posts like this make me reflect and ask myself just how much I still wish to be a part of this community. No one is asking to support farming, or to farm yourself. Only to leave it be. But the spite some people have for others that enjoy an activity that they do not is beginning to override pure common logic and sense. Driving them to the point that it seems they would rather them "gone" from the hobby entirely rather than accept that they simply enjoy something they themselves do not. Which is pretty drastic given the size of the already small community, and some would rather antagonize and mock fellow players voicing problems and concerns? And then get upset and want empathy when something they themselves enjoy is then nerfed/nixed/changed. Two years ago, I was pretty proud of this community. People didn't always agree, but at least they didn't go out of the way to mock each other's situations. Go look at D2 or WoW's forums sometime, infamous for their spats and toxic communities. In some ways this one already surpasses theirs, which I hope everyone would agree that is not a good thing.

Given that I could make a post that says "I like puppies" and you would still downvote, I have a hard time valuing your input on the matter.

I would call it use of common game knowledge. I mean, if that's the qualifiers for what counts for an exploit, then you might as well call every tanker who res caps all resists an exploiter as well. If anything, that would be more egregious would it not?

But this is precisely how one side feels. And when they voiced their concerns, they are mocked, insulted, ridiculed, or put into the "they don't matter" box. But I do find your highlight of the word "exploit" to be a bit in poor form, since not everyone is going to agree or disagree what an exploit is, or what is even "permitted." What is okay for one player, isn't okay for another. Which I suspect is the crux of the matter. And I have yet to see any single post to the tune of "change farms back or else" or "fix it or we will leave in droves" as exaggerated by other persons present. If anything, any such concerns will no longer be voiced in the future, largely in part due to the lack of address to those who were against it, as well as comments from the anti-farm crowd who tend to voice their opinions as if it was rules, policies, or set in stone. And most certainly, from one side of the fence it feels as if some things are stamped out, and others are permitted to slide, even silently encouraged even. To summarize, regardless of the issue being discussed, the manner in which both the staff as well as some parts of the forums have responded to the posts made by some, have made it seem as if the originators of such either don't matter or simply are ignored or aren't heard. But even worse, others seem to garnish enjoyment from it in a twisted form of schadenfreude. Personally, I am inclined to engage even in conversation less and less myself. As anytime I do its pretty much wasted effort anyway, so why bother?

I never said farmers. But if you think I am alone, you are woefully mistaken. These forums are hardly the entirety of the conversation as well as the community. I do respect you MistressOhm, truely, but I am afraid you are only seeing half of the issue, what is here present and in the open. The other half? Well, let's just say they don't feel welcome or open to even have a conversation. And its them who I largely refer to. And I never stated Farmers weren't or couldn't be toxic as well, but it isn't the farmers who are clamoring to change other people's gameplay either, or tripping over each other to respond to any post suggesting that there is.

Case in point #2. Satisfied yet @Seed22?

Yes and no. Hardmode isn't an option for everyone, or even every build/at/player. It isn't for me, for reasons I won't go into here. Where farming is at least an option for everyone. But I do agree that the full conversions considered they would likely be similar. Or at least the difference would be smaller in the greater scheme of things.

Why? By your own admission, it's not like you will care either way. So no point in explaining further.

Case in point.

For some people it has already reached that point. And for those that it has, they don't post or play anymore. But I doubt the empathy or even interest from some present. In fact, I expect some to be happy about it.

I never said or even used the word conspiracy or agenda. Your words, not mine. But I would call reducing the amount of reward in one activity, while boosting others, even offering additional rewards there not given elsewhere, as pressure. You run non-AE and you can get drops, inf, exp, merits, your pick of free incarnate materials, even astrals now. With Ae you get inf, exp, and drops. I would call that extra incentive to do non-AE things. I mean if we want to nit-pick, you even get badges, accolades, and titles by non-ae things. Sure. At a reduced rate, for less inf, on different builds than before, because what once worked no longer does. Sure, "no pressure" indeed. But let's clarify something. I am not an "afk" farmer, I'm an active farmer and multiboxer. The majority of these changes, in particularly the AI, actually made my farms faster. I say this to underscore the other point I made that you neglected - some people feel so shunned that they no longer post or even use the discord publicly. As an example I spoke here about a matter that didn't even affect me personally, and this is the response. I say I agreed with the issue, but not how it was resolved, and you insinuate that I am a "tinfoil hat" conspiracist? So if this is your response to me on a matter such as this, just how much do you think they are willing to speak up otherwise on other possibly more serious matters? Food for thought.

I'm not being confrontational. It's pretty simple. If someone wants access to CC protection and doesn't have access to it their powersets, then they "need" it. You made a statement, I disagreed, and you responded with pettiness. As far as the English word "need," if you suggest obligatory, or compulsory, then I agree. No one is obligated to anything. But if someone wants/lacks/is getting wrecked due to lack of CC protection, that doesn't otherwise have it in their powers, then they "need" ROP, not as in its mandatory, but it is an available tool for use should they feel the "need" for such measures due to build, playstyle, activity, and budget, no? There was no need to insinuate otherwise, personally or factually. 👍

Oh, I am aware. But often enough suppressing might as well be dying. It depends on the circumstances. Not everyone has access to armor sets. Not everyone plays defenders. In my own example I used to play a hybrid widow, and I took RoP to shore up her resists because of how they worked. Low resists at high hitpoints, and high resists at low hitpoints. Good on paper, bad in practice, especially with no way to self heal. So what I did was juggle RoP and Barrier and try to slot for extra passive regen when soloing more difficult content. I also had RoP on my fire/time corruptor, mostly to shore up resists during tough spots and lack of other mezz protections as well. Point is, it depends on the build, as with any power or tool available, as well as player preferences too, as with anything. But to say "no one needs it" is incorrect, if someone wants that effect in a build, then they need it.

So, to clarify, he said "no one needs it" and I said "it depends on the build, that's your opinion" then asked for examples, and somehow, I am the one arguing semantics? Its fairly simple. If you require or want a power or tool in your build, then you "need" it.

Sure. Any AT that relies heavily on toggles that doesn't want them being de-activated when they are mezzed. But sure, lets go with your argument. Then no one needs fly. Want to hover-blast? Too bad! No one needs sprint. Want to get to your next mission quickly? Too bad! You can jog there. You want Power Boost? Too Bad! you don't needs that either. You want to heal without inspirations? Too Bad! Eat the green candy. Eat it! Don't want to die anytime you get mezzed? Too bad, no RoP for you. We have inspirations after all! Sure, you might run out, but them's the breaks. Should have found more! By your logic, no one "Needs" anything. You are just trying to argue semantics to win the disagreement. You gave your opinion. I gave mine.

Sure, But I would also want the merits/astrals/weekly rewards included as well, not just the inf/kill tally.

Doesn't feel like you understood what I meant by "opinion." 👍

Or perhaps they could stop putting pressure on people to do an activity they don't enjoy? And just leave them be playing the game how they like? Why isn't that an option? Not everyone want's to play what is being artificially encouraged. And those that don't feel punished for not doing so. It isn't a question of adapt, it feels like a "do this or else." And honestly, in the future I expect even more, well, lets call them creative measures to further entice/force/strongarm/bribe players into doing certain content.

Multilayered question. Yes, you can still "farm." You can still "afk farm" but will have to change how. You can still actively farm, but will earn less exp/inf. No, you cannot farm in the same method/build and earn the same inf/exp rate. Yes, what people used to earn has been reduced. I wouldn't say "taken" perhaps as that implies ownership, but to say "get over it" is a bit disheartening. I don't see this as a contest or race here, I see us as a community. And one part telling another part to effectively "stfu" is not only minimalizing, but pretty depressing as well.

And nor should you pound that one nail in, and then say you weren't out for that one nail. But please make no mistake, I am not claiming "nothing" should have been done. I just take a dim view on what was done. You could have adjusted it from both ends - lower AE a "little", raise non-AE a "little" to meet in the middle. Or raise non-AE. Or, you know, actually standardize "everything" regardless of activity, (but they won't do that one either.) IMO, they did what you said, the "no brainer" and took path of least resistance. I don't blame them for it, but I do arch an eyebrow when they take the path of least resistance, and then the atmosphere became "It wasn't a nerf, it was a fix. We aren't out for farmers we swear" when in the same patch, they made it a point to "encourage" non-AE activities. The players whose main activities was the AE, or even only the AE, will certainly feel slighted, and I don't think it should be a shock to anyone. But I guess they got what they wanted, I do see less AEs and Farms, but I also see less players as well. If you strongarm players into either playing non-AE content, or playing AE at a reduced rate, many will choose option 3 - playing something else, or even option 4 which I won't mention publically due to forum policy.

I bare you no ill will either, but I appreciate the clarification and sincerity. Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, the rest of your post is pretty accurate. One part of the community feels lied to, or unwelcome. And it's got to the point that they won't speak up about it. As an example and speaking purely for myself here, but after the last beta I certainly will never participate in any beta again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And I don't care to repeat the same actions and expect different results. While I do agree with your and other's points that Devs/HC staff have no reason to lie, at least none as far as I am aware, other's don't see it that way. And given how similar concerns were responded to when voiced, publicly both by Devs as well as other players, it sort of becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. Can you not see that those who want to play AE as a primary activity or even perhaps as their only activity might take slight or even more staunch attitudes then? I mean, it quite literally is - 1. Group of players enjoying AE. 2. Devs make changes/fixes/adjustments to coax people out of AE, or make other activities equal to AE, but in doing so, AE earns less. 3. Said group of players then feels slighted, unwelcome, or unheard, and begin to have quiet conversations. 4. Devs saying they aren't against Farming. Another group of players on the forums agreeing. But that doesn't change the fact that the first group of players who were enjoying AE to begin with, earn less, or are unable to play in the same manner they did before. Calling a Rose by another name won't change the smell. Personally I generally disagree with reducing what one person had, in order to make other people more equal. You should just give the other people more, so the first person is unaffected either way, and that is not what has been happening.

(sorry double post.)

To play armchair philosopher a moment, some people were sad what other people could get/earn doing things they themselves didn't enjoy doing, and so complained enough that eventually that activity that had zero affect on them whatsoever was then reduced, more than once. Because some people just can't mind their own affairs and focus on themselves, and due to lack of outside achievement and the absence of a sense of self-worth can only attain it by comparing themselves to others and what they have achieved.