Neiska

Hello Cobalt, Tone of voice can be difficult to convey entirely though text, so I shall try to be as respectful, eloquent, and precise with my reply, but I would like to speak about this quoted part specifically. For some of us, we have done just as you prescribed. Something akin to "I enjoy X part of the game. This change damages/reduces/harms that part of the game" and it seemed to go unnoticed or unheard. I am not claiming that it did, but the lack of re-redress or response to such voiced concerns can lead to it be seen as received in the very same manner as your first example of giving feedback. If we receive no reply no matter how we frame the critique then how are we to know it was seen and given thought at all? Speaking personally for a moment, I joined CoH about 6 months after it's public return. And virtually every change that I have spoken up about, more or less has gone the exact opposite. I was against the RoP change. I was against the many AE changes. I was also against some Powerset changes. All for reasons that need not be elaborated on here. Now do I expect the staff to take my "personal" feedback as gospel and cater to my every whim? Certainly not. But the fact of the matter is, is that I am hardly alone. There are many who are in the exact same circumstance as myself. Which leads that the same people either for or against any given change or update, always seems to go "their" way. Which can then lead to all kinds of suspicions of favoritism and bias, or even the thought of the "whose" feedback is far more important than "what" that feedback even is. The simple fact of the matter is, is that there are more people who only learn of a change during the final testing, than during the brainstorming stage. So many of us only get to give any input after the decisions have already been made, the question is just "how much." And for the majority who don't even use the forums, they don't learn of a change until it actually happens. As recent example, the last time I was on I was still seeing people asking what happened to AE in Atlas. Lastly I would like to share my last experience with you. I will leave names unmentioned but I do have screenshots of the incident. But to summarize, I voiced my concerns in a respectful manner over a particular change. As usual, the debate became passionate and heated on both sides. But the only comment from any staff member on the topic, was a mocking comment in the discord. Suffice to say, I took that a bit personal. And I was suitably distressed enough that I will no longer voice my thoughts on any given issue, even if asked. Because A.) it matters none whatsoever one way or another not only if I give my thoughts on it, but even also if I am even for or against the change in question, as well as B.) I don't care to be mocked not only by staff, but by other players who have a different opinion from my own. I will admit that I, myself did add fuel to the fire, so I claim no sort of better nature. It happens, we are all humans here. But to me the Staff members conduct was unacceptable. I took enough offense to it that to this day I have not logged into HC. A ticket was submitted, and I did speak to a different staff member about it, but I have yet to receive any sort of apology. And at this point I don't really expect to. To summarize, and speaking only for myself here, I won't voice my thoughts on any matter in question one way or another. Because it doesn't matter if I do or not, and at least if I don't then I won't be jaded and mocked for it. And I am not sure if I will even continue to play HC, but more because of the actions of the staff than any change itself. When you are mocked by the staff for your input, even when specifically asked for, it certainly puts things into a different light. Again, nothing in this reply is meant to be insulting or disrespectful. But it would be disingenuous to present this issue as only coming from one group of players. Best wishes. To you and all of the staff.

No, but "Demanding" other players play in certain ways certainly might.

When did I ever say it was the farmers? You assumed that. I said "parts of the community." So that one is on you. Secondly, if you go back to only this topic and read the various posts, you will see a clear "us vs them" mentality in this single topic. You don't have to take my word for it, it's quite plainly there. Thirdly, I find we have don't have anything further to discuss nor common ground to share. And as you seem keen on being belittling and antagonistic, perhaps it is best we do not communicate further. And I believe I will take steps to ensure such. If you don't like what I have to say, then I suggest you do the same.

Page 6 - -Will include a timer that if you don't complete a weekly mandatory ITF you will be banned for 72 hours. Excessive times getting banned will result in a permaban. - Powersets that are popular will be nerfed. Not because they are too strong, just too popular. -ATs rarely played will be nerfed. Not because they are too strong, only because so few people play them what's the point in having them.

This post may have been made in jest, but at this juncture I wouldn't be surprised in the least if S/L farming was next on the nerf/adjust/rebalance/whatever terminology one cares to put on it. Followed by a cooldown on how many AE missions someone can que for in a time period, then another reduction in exp/inf gain, then further boosting to other non-AE activities until it reaches the point where playing AE solo will be the worst method of play. It would fit the pattern of change over the past few changes.

Case in point. I present a realistic concern by a part of the community, not just my own, and you make personal jibes. Considering how you were the one who said they don't care, I don't see why I should value your opinion on the matter, or your attempt at insults.

I think you missed my point hon. There are some (myself included) who no longer want to team with randoms, regardless of what that teaming might be. But not because of farming changes, but due to how the "other side" conducted themselves. I mean, think about it. How eager would you be to play with those who antagonized/insulted you? I do want to add that I make no claim nor insinuation that it was only the "nerf farm" side acting in such a manner either. But I would argue that how people (on both sides) are reacting to these changes are doing more division than the change itself. I even offered an olive branch and got mocked for it, so I am truly perplexed what some people expect or think we are headed. It's becoming an "us vs them" atmosphere, and in a community such as this, nobody wins in that scenario. Not "your side", not "the other side", and certainly not the staff.

Not trying to be snarky, but not everyone enjoys PI radios, or doing ITFs, or TOT, Hami, etc etc. For some people, roleplaying is their main activity. For others, playing the market. For others still, its AE, be it making/playing their own content, testing builds, farming, or simply enjoy playing alone. From the farmers perspective, it seems others are going "leave the AE or else." I am not saying thats what was said, only that is how it feels for some. And it keeps going back and forth, back and forth. But I ask you this - Let us pretend a moment, that the AE/farming explicitly vanished tomorrow. The hows/whys is irrelevant to my point. My point is, do you think for one moment that those farmers would then be eager to group up with the same folks whom they have been passionately engaged with here in the forms? Methinks not. I think such people who feel thusly, and especially with the reactions to voiced concerns, are far more likely to go "You know what? Heck with this." Myself included. If the AE was gone tomorrow, and it was "team or else" I can almost guarantee you, the majority of those whom feel slighted would pick "or else." And not only because of the change, but because of how the supporters of both sides have conducted themselves, here in the forums, in the discord, and ingame. And even pointing this out is met with derision from some corners, which I think suggests a far more serious issue than game mechanics changes.

My opinions on opinions is that they are very opinionated. But in my other opinion, that is a very nice hat.

I know tone of voice is difficult to convey via text, so I shall try to be as clear and concise as possible. But how do you expect one side or the other (both are guilty of it) by antagonizing responses such as this? I mean, what do you expect? Them to go "you know what, you are right?" or to just have the final word and let it feel as if someone won the argument? I am not trying to be antagonistic here, or confrontational. I am only using this as an example of what I mean in other posts. One side posts something, the other side more or less goes "QQ cry more yummy yummy tears" and then it just devolves from there. I hope that all of us, no matter where we stand on any issue/change/patch would agree that is a bad thing? I don't want that. I hope you don't either. I mean, this isn't a question that one side must yield or buckle here, both sides have to stop antagonizing one another. Or this is just going to continue, which I would argue could drive just as many people away as any topic of heated debate itself? Speaking only personally for myself here. But I am willing to ease up and disagree in a more respectful manner if others are willing to do the same.

+1, same for me hon. Out of a full friend list, I might see 4 or 5 people online on a Friday or Saturday night. We don't do TFs anymore, don't do story arcs anymore, don't even really hangout and chitchat anymore. And we used to do that stuff 3-4 times a week. But logging in and seeing an empty contact list is very depressing, and seeing more of those who remain say "I'm done" after each change slims that list down even more. I do want to say I don't suspect there is any single cause for this, or even the nerfs or changes are to expressly blame. I expect the causes to be multisided and varied, as with any group of people. I am just saying your situation is relatable.

Classes? I enjoyed History the most, specifically the Origins of Democracy as well as a class on different Empires throughout human history. Oh, game ATs? Well, there are many melee with charge-like abilities - Savage Melee, Electrical Melee, and Shield Defense all have a charge/teleport, and there is also a Leap Attack in the Jumping pool as well. You could have a Tanker, Scrapper, Brute, or even stalker. An Electric/Shield stalker is actually quite good. As far as buffing, well there are many classes that can buff. Defenders stand out in that, but Masterminds and Corruptors have access to similar powers if you want a different playstyle. The kind of buff desired is also important.

Great, now they are going to use Climate Change as another reason for the next farming change. Thanks @Snarky! 😆 (pretext - just poking fun.)

You know, posts like this make me reflect and ask myself just how much I still wish to be a part of this community. No one is asking to support farming, or to farm yourself. Only to leave it be. But the spite some people have for others that enjoy an activity that they do not is beginning to override pure common logic and sense. Driving them to the point that it seems they would rather them "gone" from the hobby entirely rather than accept that they simply enjoy something they themselves do not. Which is pretty drastic given the size of the already small community, and some would rather antagonize and mock fellow players voicing problems and concerns? And then get upset and want empathy when something they themselves enjoy is then nerfed/nixed/changed. Two years ago, I was pretty proud of this community. People didn't always agree, but at least they didn't go out of the way to mock each other's situations. Go look at D2 or WoW's forums sometime, infamous for their spats and toxic communities. In some ways this one already surpasses theirs, which I hope everyone would agree that is not a good thing.

Given that I could make a post that says "I like puppies" and you would still downvote, I have a hard time valuing your input on the matter.

I would call it use of common game knowledge. I mean, if that's the qualifiers for what counts for an exploit, then you might as well call every tanker who res caps all resists an exploiter as well. If anything, that would be more egregious would it not?

But this is precisely how one side feels. And when they voiced their concerns, they are mocked, insulted, ridiculed, or put into the "they don't matter" box. But I do find your highlight of the word "exploit" to be a bit in poor form, since not everyone is going to agree or disagree what an exploit is, or what is even "permitted." What is okay for one player, isn't okay for another. Which I suspect is the crux of the matter. And I have yet to see any single post to the tune of "change farms back or else" or "fix it or we will leave in droves" as exaggerated by other persons present. If anything, any such concerns will no longer be voiced in the future, largely in part due to the lack of address to those who were against it, as well as comments from the anti-farm crowd who tend to voice their opinions as if it was rules, policies, or set in stone. And most certainly, from one side of the fence it feels as if some things are stamped out, and others are permitted to slide, even silently encouraged even. To summarize, regardless of the issue being discussed, the manner in which both the staff as well as some parts of the forums have responded to the posts made by some, have made it seem as if the originators of such either don't matter or simply are ignored or aren't heard. But even worse, others seem to garnish enjoyment from it in a twisted form of schadenfreude. Personally, I am inclined to engage even in conversation less and less myself. As anytime I do its pretty much wasted effort anyway, so why bother?

I never said farmers. But if you think I am alone, you are woefully mistaken. These forums are hardly the entirety of the conversation as well as the community. I do respect you MistressOhm, truely, but I am afraid you are only seeing half of the issue, what is here present and in the open. The other half? Well, let's just say they don't feel welcome or open to even have a conversation. And its them who I largely refer to. And I never stated Farmers weren't or couldn't be toxic as well, but it isn't the farmers who are clamoring to change other people's gameplay either, or tripping over each other to respond to any post suggesting that there is.

Case in point #2. Satisfied yet @Seed22?

Yes and no. Hardmode isn't an option for everyone, or even every build/at/player. It isn't for me, for reasons I won't go into here. Where farming is at least an option for everyone. But I do agree that the full conversions considered they would likely be similar. Or at least the difference would be smaller in the greater scheme of things.

Why? By your own admission, it's not like you will care either way. So no point in explaining further.

Case in point.

For some people it has already reached that point. And for those that it has, they don't post or play anymore. But I doubt the empathy or even interest from some present. In fact, I expect some to be happy about it.

I never said or even used the word conspiracy or agenda. Your words, not mine. But I would call reducing the amount of reward in one activity, while boosting others, even offering additional rewards there not given elsewhere, as pressure. You run non-AE and you can get drops, inf, exp, merits, your pick of free incarnate materials, even astrals now. With Ae you get inf, exp, and drops. I would call that extra incentive to do non-AE things. I mean if we want to nit-pick, you even get badges, accolades, and titles by non-ae things. Sure. At a reduced rate, for less inf, on different builds than before, because what once worked no longer does. Sure, "no pressure" indeed. But let's clarify something. I am not an "afk" farmer, I'm an active farmer and multiboxer. The majority of these changes, in particularly the AI, actually made my farms faster. I say this to underscore the other point I made that you neglected - some people feel so shunned that they no longer post or even use the discord publicly. As an example I spoke here about a matter that didn't even affect me personally, and this is the response. I say I agreed with the issue, but not how it was resolved, and you insinuate that I am a "tinfoil hat" conspiracist? So if this is your response to me on a matter such as this, just how much do you think they are willing to speak up otherwise on other possibly more serious matters? Food for thought.

I'm not being confrontational. It's pretty simple. If someone wants access to CC protection and doesn't have access to it their powersets, then they "need" it. You made a statement, I disagreed, and you responded with pettiness. As far as the English word "need," if you suggest obligatory, or compulsory, then I agree. No one is obligated to anything. But if someone wants/lacks/is getting wrecked due to lack of CC protection, that doesn't otherwise have it in their powers, then they "need" ROP, not as in its mandatory, but it is an available tool for use should they feel the "need" for such measures due to build, playstyle, activity, and budget, no? There was no need to insinuate otherwise, personally or factually. 👍