Puma

I'm one 100% with this. I do think that the power could use a buff, and I'm OK with a situational buff, but for me to enjoy it it needs to be a PREDICTABLE situational buff. I'm going to give my suggestions for Sorcery changes and then go into a request/thoughts about communication briefly before suggesting it gets opened in a separate thread by Jimmy. Arcane bolt: Keep the Arcane Power boost, but "create" arcane power differently, in a more predictable way- Arcane power is built up -when you cast arcane spells on someone else-. If a player has arcane power, arcane bolt will fire instant cast and double damage, or regular cast/double damage. Firing Arcane Bolt places the "arcane power" effect on the caster if the caster does not already have the affect on them. Mystic Ward and Enflame will grant the arcane power effect on the caster after a 20 second delay and every 20 seconds thereafter. Arcane Power will not stack, and using arcane Bolt with Arcane power will leave you unable to gain arcane power for 10 seconds. Mystic Flight and RoP will not grant the arcane effect because you are not affecting other with your spells. This way, Arcane Bolt's damage is predictable but also gated. To get the greater damage you have to build up that chance, but how you build it can be planned around to make it a less annoying, random part of your playstyle. You know that to get the "superior" Arcane Bolt you'll either have to rely on the normal attack then wait for it to recharge before firing the better one, or you know that it will only happen once every 20 seconds from the toggles, and work it into your chain with that timing in mind. Mystic Flight/Translocation: I like the proposed change and am fine. Spirit Ward: I would be OK with this if the end cost were seriously reduced. The last thing most characters need is an end toggle this heavy for an absorb shield for someone else. It's simply far too costly, imo. Right now I take Spirit Ward for placing on pets and my vet buff put, and to slot the absorb proc. If this goes live as is I'll probably respec out and just place the absorb proc somewhere else. Enflame: Same issue. The end cost is insane, and the running from the patches is the real problem with this power. Would it be AT ALL possible to change it from a toggle patch power to a toggle fire aura power? Even if you wanted to keep the animation the same, make it so the enemy isn't running from a patch on the ground. If not, and it must stay a patch instead of placing a fire damage aura, then definitely still reduce the end cost. This power is best used in long fights on bosses. That is EXACTLY when you dont want to run any more end heavy toggles than you need to because you're already spending so much end on the long fight. RoP: Keep the 90 second up/600 second recharge, lower the mez protection and resistance by 1/3, and allow it to be affected by recharge. I'd rather have to deal with a weakened version that can be useful for often than a stronger one that isn't as reliable. Again, like RoP, I dont need more to micromanage. As for communication: You said that you see this as "collaboration". I appreciate that, and I hope that's true. But "collaboration" to me is not "This power is bad and we're going to fix it so here is what we're thinking, what do you think" in my mind, when I don't even think the power is bad to begin with. I'm about to be hyperbolic but that's a bit like someone trying to steal your car saying that they see it as collaboration because they're letting you decide if they should smash in the windows or break the door handle. That may not be how you see or meant this thread (and other) about changes recently, but it's how it -feels-, at least to me, sometimes. It's even more frustrating when myself and others who have similar desires as myself get attacked in -every single thread- when we share our concerns about what we see as nerfs and rebalancing by people who never seem to question any decisions being made. I mean, it's fine if they agree with the changes, but we do get attacked. We get dismissed and even get told to "go play elsewhere" or that we've been abusing the game, etc. That doesn't feel like collaboration either. That feels like a cartel trying to tell anyone rocking the boat to shut up. It's even more disappointing since, in the very beginnings of this server, the Devs did seem interested in what players actually thought and wanted to pursue, asking -ahead- of trying to pursue them. So it's disappointing when now, it seems the devs are just doing their own things and they'll let us chime in after they've made a decision on what to focus on, what's important, where energy should be spent, what's happening in the next patch, etc. That doesn't feel like collaboration, either. So I'm going to make a suggestion : open up a thread specifically to talk about the -process- of alpha and beta testing. Let's hammer out there what we'd all like to see as the process, both from the viewpoint of the Devs AND the players/testers. You might get some good ideas from it for going forward. And periodically revisit that thread to see if the process needs amending. I think that, alone, would go along way to easing some concerns myself and others have. And i would suggest annual checks with the player base on feelings about the direction things have been heading and should head in the future, before we're even close to alpha testing. That's my 2 cents. This is my last post until I get some more time to try the newest patch for more specific feedback.

So I'm confused. You've said that the game is now so easy that you personally have seen many people leave because of it. Did they ALL have RoP somehow magically able to fill 100% of the gap between clarion and melee hybrid so they would never be mezzed and could withstand the brutal onslaught of carnies, Malta, and rikti? Something that is, mathematically, impossible even with live's version of RoP? Is the game so hard that even with def cap on a toon that literally mezzes every mob they come against you STILL end up dying easily, or is it so easy if you have RoP that it becomes boring and you quit? Also...if RoP is the key to the game becoming OP why do the VAST majority of players (ESPECIALLY blasters and defenders) build for defense and not just take RoP and suddenly become gods?

Exactly. RoP is only "overpowered", at least from what I've gathered through both threads, in that high recharge builds could make it permanent -when stacking with other powers-. So while available at level 20, you can't even come CLOSE to getting that until you've fully IOed a character and unlocked incarnate +recharge powers. So it's a completely invalid comparison. An SO or even set IOed RoP isn't going to "negate large portions of the game" for the player that has it at anything below level 50.

Aren't controllers "squishies"? Or is it ONLY blasters that should have no option whatsoever to get real, reliable mez protection? Also...if "you have to choose to take psi" matters, then "you have to choose to take Sorcery" matters.

Hell...we can now right click and "auto create" breakfrees from any three other insps in our tray. They literally made it EASIER to counter mezz via breakfrees than via using powers like RoP. This whole line of logic is...flawed.

Pssst. Secret: These devs aren't infallible. Their view of how the game should work isn't "the right" view. They don't even all agree on it, or at least haven't always, specifically this group. And that's not a bad thing, btw. It's very GOOD that we have a community contribute to development instead of one hand ruling by dictate. And they asked for feedback. They don't HAVE to go back and rebalance things if they don't want to. In point of fact, the very things you claim were released as "beta" powers (which is false, btw. They've been adapted and used for years before HC came in to being) have been used for years and ARE being used right now and the game is playing just fine. Have you heard of anyone leaving because RoP was just too powerful? Anyone you quit the server because blasters had just become so dang powerful post-shut down? No? Me either. And yet here we are making "balances" that ARE driving away people, including people who have been helping this server and its development since at LEAST its beginning, if not before. If that's balance...OK. I guess I just don't understand the scale they're using to measure that balance, because to me, it's doing far more harm than good.

You're ignoring that a single -recharge affect from a single enemy ends your Mez Protection 100% immunity. And also you're ignoring how much MORE helpeful and effective defense is to mez. Every single conflict in the game has damage coming at you that defense protects you against. Much much fewer of them have mez coming at you. In point of fact, that's why I actually see RoP as mostly a res boost on the characters I have it, not a mez boost. I don't usually select it for mez. I want the added resistance. But that's beside the point.

Wait...if we're adding in incarnate powers then you have to add in Ageless and Barrier to your "limitations" to the controller example. So no...it's really not that simple. Yes. A person who A: Takes the sorcery pool and sacrifices at least three powers choices to get RoP B: Takes other powers that add to their recharge C.: Takes enough defense powers to slot 5 LoTGs for recharge boosts D.: works the rest of their IO sets to add recharge E: Unlocks all incarnate powers and slots two very specific ones COULD THEORETICALLY work it so they're permanently at the mez protection cap with enough micromanaging. But...honestly...between Clarion and melee hybrid you'd be there anyway for 95% or more of the game. But anyway, meanwhile a controller who A: Takes pool powers that grant defense (like Combat Jumping, Maneuvers, and weave) B: Takes other powers that add to their defense C.: Takes powers that allow set bonuses for defense D.: takes a defense based APP/PP E: Unlocks all incarnate powers and slots two very specific ones like Barrier or Melee or Support hybrids Could THEORETICALLY work it so they're permanently at the defense cap even when facing enemies who debuff defense with some micromanaging. And you know what? Both deserve it. Because the person worked their butt off and made sacrifices to get there to shore up their weaknesses, and there will always be SOME enemies where it won't matter because their attacks are unresistable anyway.

No, it's not that simple at all. You can build a controller that can reach permanent defense caps, even though that is usually in the realm of melee toons only. How? By designing a build around it and sacrificing damage, or recharge, or debuffs, etc. to get defense bonuses, and adding in defensive pool powers like leadership, combat jumping etc. and adding in incarnate powers. This is actually the -most- powerful buff any character in game can get: when you aren't getting hit, you aren't getting mezzed. You aren't getting debuffed. You aren't getting hurt. You can NEVER add enough recharge to get the live version of to make RoP perma. And slotting it for recharge to make it available more often comes at the same "sacrificing" damage or debuffs or regen, etc. that the controller above sacrifices for defense. And taking multiple powers from that specific travel pool before you can. Squishies SHOULD have to worry about Mez. And you know what? That's EXACTLY why a squishy would take RoP and slot for recharge and global recharge buffs. To deal with that worry...in the same way the controller above is "worrying" about defense.

So we want to make Rune of Protection an auto-power? Im in! 😛

I disagree. The flaw is in your altering a power that IS affected by recharge (and people build around that to make it a worthwhile choice) to be unaffected by recharge because you think it's overpowered for some reason. THAT is the problem here. You're taking a power that currently ISN'T "broken" enough for most players to even bother to take it, and the people who did built high recharge builds to make the power actually useful, and making it so their builds are now pointless and the power isn't any better, and arguably worse. You are, quite literally, breaking something that is fine in the name of "fixing" something that is broken. And no matter how many of us here ask you why, and who use the power telling you that they AREN'T somehow finding the power to be overpowered as is, you're just sort of...doing it anyway. Cool. I mean, that's your choice. But this is my feedback. It's the wrong move. As with many of the other changes...it's just pushing everything and every build back to bland homogeny to increase grind in a 15 year old game where the grind isn't why people are logging in the first place. So back to squishies building for exclusively for ranged defense and recharge, etc. Awesome.

And sadly, for me, even more casual because I'm being turned off by the changes being made and finding myself wandering to other places. Which I decidedly do NOT want. HC is my home at heart, but I'm finding these changes over the last few pages really making me have more fun elsewhere. Which sucks...because I want to play here, with the people I've been playing with for years.

Yeah. You can waste precious slotting by slotting with IOs that actually dont offer the recharge buff that is part of that IO if you really want the set bonus. Which is a really dumb way to design powers for a game.

You're turning two click powers into end heavy toggles. You're also trying to work yet another "state of" mechanic into making one of the attack powers actually worth using, except making that based on a "chance for state of" makes it really ineffective to build into any sort of attack chain since you can't reliably build around chances. Granted, the power is a poor one to begin with so it's a wash there. And now RoP will have a set 33% up time, which is a big nerf to almost anyone who was actually using it since they were very likely building around their recharge to use it. This entire approach, as well as the very reason the approach is even being considered, seems very off to me, especially when it's all to try and "fix" a power that very few people were taking anyway and that wasn't breaking any builds in its current state. It's a "let me fix stuff that really isn't bothering anyone because I know better" mentality that I disagree with.

I think removing the terror and leaving the power as is otherwise would be perfect. Im with you on the problem being the "run away" aspect.

Yes on target dummies, and it was about four years ago or so and I was with someone. I believe an analyzer was used, but can't say for sure if it was that or combat logs. I dont remember searching through combat logs though, but like I said, it was a long time ago. I just remember deciding it was worth taking the power for the -res proc for AVs given its propensity to go off at the time.

"abuse" lol. Also...I've used it very successfully with -res procs for a long time, including testing it when I first thought of it in RWZ to make sure it would be worth it. If procs weren't working in it, that was something new.

This seems like an across the board nerf, overall. Enflame and Spirit Ward, especially, will make me respec out of these on several toons. Enflame's best aspect was its proc ability. Changing it a toggle ruins that. It also adds endurance costs. Then you're doing the same thing to spirit ward, giving it a constant end cost as a toggle, and it seems weaker overall. And I've shared my RoP feelings on the other thread. Can we please just leave this set as is?

That's my point. A power is a CHOICE. And if you expect players to CHOOSE a power that requires two other, often unwanted, powers to unlock, then there should be greater incentive to make that choice than a standard power that doesn't have that requirement. In my opinion, like Patron Pets, higher tier pool powers should all function at least on par with their standard, non-pool equivalents for two reasons: the increased "choice cost" to unlock them and their purpose, which is to either fill a build gap for a player's main powers OR to thematically support a player's concept. I see no reason why those powers should be "weaker" in any way. Especially when the logic seems so contradictory here.

I'm curious. Why do Patron Pets require you to have picked two other powers from a patron before you take them? Isn't it precisely because those powers are supposed to be so "special" that they require a bit of "sacrifice" to get? To me, what you're saying here goes against an aspect of this game's design that has been around forever: The later/more effort a power takes to get access to, the stronger and more effective that power will be. We've seen that in pool powersets forever. As for "it's better for mid range builds"....there's a real design problem here, too. Since it requires you to take multiple powers before you get access to it, then if you're expecting players to sacrifice selections from their main power choices at -the very levels- where those powers are still unlocking, it better be worth putting off those power choices. There seems to be a real conflict in the logic here: The power shouldn't be anything really special, but it also should be made designed so players can use it at tiers where, taking it at those levels, would really cost them three very likely better choices from their main pools.

You have a sustain power and one armor, along with the debuff and control powers. Tier 4 of the Impairment secondary is a sustain and tier 5 is an armor. This is not meant to be god-mode, but to be a tactical play style that can still offer something in both teams and solo play. My suspicion would be that an additional armor would come with the APPs as well.

Description: The Saboteur is a master of getting close to enemies to damage, weaken, or disarm them before being noticed. Saboteurs inherent ability, Sabotage, uses their ability to go undetected by enemies to make their initial move more effective, whether they are dealing damage or weakening their foes. Inherent description: Sabotage allows a Saboteur to have added secondary effects for powers triggered on unsuspecting enemies. Damaging attacks will do extra damage, control powers will have their magnitude and duration increased, and support powers will have increased effect. Likewise, Saboteurs' damaging attacks will have a chance to critically hit any targets suffering from status affects. Primary set: Surprise Assault Tier 1: Single target melee attack Tier 2: Single target hold/damage Tier 3: AoE cone/ Melee attack Tier 4: Incapacitate: Assassin's Strike clone with slightly less damage and strong chance to hold. Tier 5: Build Up Tier 6: Subversion: PBAoE brief Confuse/places you back in infiltration mode Tier 7: Deflection: Melee moderate damage, strong secondary power (+res or +Def or +regen etc.. depending on set). Tier 8 : Melee superior damage Tier 9: Melee Cone or PBAoE power. Secondary Set: Impairment: Tier 1: Infiltration: Similar to "Hide" only instead of stealth, your threat rating is dropped, preventing any enemies from attacking you until you aggro and are "discovered". Tier 2: Single target immobilize/debuff. Tier 3: AoE Immobilize/slow/non-hold status power Tier 4: Impair power (mix of sustain/debuff aura from support pool) Tier 5: Armor related to support pool Tier 6: strong single target debuff Tier 7: AoE debuff from support pool Tier 8: AoE Hold Tier 9: Targeted AoE debuff/status power. So a "Dark Saboteur" might look like the following Tier 1: Smite / Infiltrartion Tier 2: Melee Dark Grasp / Shadow Binds Tier 3: Shadow Maul / Living Shadows Tier 4: Dark Incapacitation / Nether cloak (self +regen/Recovery/psi res, foe -tohit/fear) Tier 5: Build Up / Fading Aura (Toggle version of Fade) Tier 6: Dark Subversion (PBAoE Placate, -tohit) / Touch of Fear Tier 7: Soul absorption / Heart of Darkness Tier 8: Midnight Grasp / Shadow Field Tier 9: Soul Drain / Tar Patch or Darkest Night The concept is that Saboteurs get in nice and close with the enemies and then "turn on them" from within, using surprise to boost their initial impact. The choice between using the surprise to boost your first attack, your mezzes, or your debuffs gives a unique play style, but the lack of true armors means the Saboteur must still be careful or avoid being overwhelmed.

I think that's stretching. If saying your "demon summoning" isnt tied to "magic" origin because they're just aliens from a realm where all are evil, then you can say your "arcane/sorcerous" powers are really just an energy based technology used by inhabitants of another dimension. Basically...what Thor in the marvel movies did with the "magic" of Asgard. "Arcane/Sorcerous" is just as inherently magic as "Devices/pistols/traps/assault rifle" are inherently technological. Sure, you can get creative to explain it away, but my point is, there is definitely precedent for this in game.

I mean, multiple power sets are linked to a specific origin by name already (Assault Rifle, Dual Pistols, Devices, beam rifle, and traps, are clearly tech in some form, while dark miasma and Demon summon are clearly mystic in some form), so I'm not sure why that would matter. Any creative person who REALLY wants to use a mystic or arcane blast set could easily come up with a non-mystic explanation just like a mystic character could explain that their AR is actually using enchanted bullets with tiny runes painted on them, etc. Hell...I had a science fiction based character who was a Demon/dark mastermind. They were from an Alien desert planet and controlled trained beasts from that world that lived in the desert sands. The dark powers were colored to look like sand.

/signed. I love the idea that the mark is constant, and while I'd still hate the whole tier 1/tier 2 choice, this would go a long way to making it fee less costly having to wait for the right power to recharge and use it on the right target. Personally I'd prefer a "swap ammo" style of toggle to let me choose which affect I want from opportunity when it triggers, but I know that's been shot down before. I just HATE having to keep my tier 1 in my rotation when there are a lot of times I drop that later on in builds. Still, nice work!