Puma

Fair enough. I think that's a valid criticism and I apologize. Ive gone back and removed the comments.

What I'm hoping to accomplish is to voice that nerfs to procs should be very carefully considered and, if done, done surgically and not with a blanket change to how they perform. My statement was that I'm seeing nerfs that concern me that this is the direction any proc changes would go, and I think it's a concern worth voicing. It was a specific reply to the statement that Powerhouse has said he wants to visit procs at some point.

Im confused because your argument was that people are playing defenders too much now because procs are too powerful. And I guess you have data to prove that, but haven't shown it yet. And I just showed you that at least SOME of the people playing more defenders are doing so now because they are finally able to be soloable.

The change to procs becoming PPM was made before shutdown as well. Maybe you can show me your data so I can try and understand why you're seeing a pattern that I entirely don't see. For the record, as I stated, -I- roll almost exclusively defenders now, when I used to run almost exclusively corrupters, because now I can solo with them and STILL be able to contribute to a team with strong buffs/debuffs, where before, I couldn't. It has nothing to do with procs. Because again, if you're rolling a defender to do more damage because you can use procs, you're kinda illogical, since you can do even MORE damage with a Corrupter using those same procs. And with the defender changes, you don't NEED procs to do decent damage on a defender when solo...and when on a team, procs won't contribute enough to make a dent anyway, given how much more damage everyone else is dishing out.

I don't disagree, but want to remind you that NOT being able to solo with a toon effectively can HINDER a lot of players who would, otherwise, make a team oriented toon. There is a not-insignificant part of the player base that doesn't want to be locked in to teaming all of the time, even if they'd like to team some of the time. I'm one of them. Before the defender changes I had, I think, 2 defenders. Now? I roll them more often than corrupters.

It absolutely does explain it. As more toons are made post-change, you'll see them becoming more balanced. By the way, procs were around before sunset as well.

This is because of the defender changes, not procs. Defenders were changed to make them MUCH more solo friendly when solo, doing more damage. This made them suddenly a viable option for someone like me who likes to team and solo. Before...they simply couldnt solo well. Now...they can. This is just like the tanker changes, making THEM more solo friendly as well.

This is the most incorrect thing Ive seen posted on this board in days. Yes...a defender or tanker can do more damage than they would otherwise with a proc. But they still will not out-damage a corrupter or brute of the same combo, and they will have much less direct control over when that "added damage" hits. Of course, you can ALSO slot the SAME procs into the brute/Corr, which makes this argument make even less sense. Under your logic we should get rid of all enhancements because brute with full Single Origin enhancements slotted is more survivable than a tank with no enhancements.

The LAST thing this game needs to keep people playing is to have nerfs that suddenly make people feel LESS powerful.

I think Zera meant that since dark control has an AoE immob, having an AoE stun too basically gives it a second AoE hold (you stun them then immob them).

0 Flea is not a cannibal....though Im fairly certain he does have some Zombie toons so...

I would REALLY love some of the current gaps filled in. Blasters: They need a Psy Mastery. They have Psychic blast and mental but no option for a Psy Patron Pool on either side. Same with Rad mastery. Defenders/Corrs: They need an Ice Mastery. They both have ice/cold sets (and weather) but no ice option for epics. Scrappers/stalkers need a Psy mastery, rad, and Ice mastery. Masterminds need a Psy and rad mastery. And so on down the list. And if you wanted, it would be kind of fun to make the "unlock" for these rogue/vig contacts, not more villain APPs. Have an arc that is a rogue/villain unlock arc that unlocks them all. Would be fun.

Yeah, Im just reading those now, and you're right. Once it was clarified you seemed to get it. Sorry!

You entirely ignored the key part of the OP's post though. PPMs are CONFUSING for non-data players. It's really difficult to decide when it's worth it or not to slot a proc in a power. You admit this is true in the reverse with you "240" second example, but ignore that not it's true of a 4 second recharge power. The OP seems to be saying keep the chance for proc the same, but the power of the proc dependent on the recharge. This would still be confusing for players, but a lot LESS confusing, because we still know it's chance to go off, it's just how much it will matter we'll have to watch for, and that's much easier to keep track of than how and when the procs themselves go off, IMO. I actually support this OP's suggestion. Ive hated the PPM since it was implemented.

To be fair, most of Force Field's powers are useable when solo and offer some benefit. While Deflection Field and Insulation Field only affect others, all of the other powers affect self and/or damage enemies. The repel/KD power of FF doesn't require casting on an ally, like Sonic's does. Personal Force field is an instant "I win" power that is ONLY helpful personally, Repulsion Bomb is a 30 second AoE damage power, and Force Bubble is centered on you, not an ally. And while Emp is DEFINITELY a team centered set, three of its four best powers (Healing Aura and both RAs) affect self. Arguably, sonic's best powers (the -res aura, the Res shields, and the KD aura) don't, and can't be used without a teammate.

Just like it says. I've always felt support was a "weird" choice for sonic, but it is what it is. It always seemed more fitting for blast or control, to me. So here's my suggestion for a sonic control set. Piercing cry: Single target sleep, Moderate Psionic Damage You put out a high pitched sound so piercing, it causes moderate pain to your target and makes them pass out. Bellow: Single Target stun, immob. Moderate smashing damage. You emit a low, powerful burst of sound so forceful it stuns your target and freezes them in place. Reverberation field: AoE slow, chance for immob. You create a field of sonic vibrations on the ground around a target. All enemies nearby have their movement and attack rates slowed, and have a strong chance to be immobilized from the vibrations. Confusing whispers: Single target confuse You create artificial whispers around a character so convincing they become confused, attacking nearby foes. Forceful Wail: Targeted AoE (cone), foe Knockdown, chance for Fear You emit a power wail, knocking down foes in a wide cone in front of you. The sound is so powerful foes have a strong chance of being briefly terrified when they return to their feet. Soothing Song: Ally Heal over Time, Foe Chance for Sleep You emit a constant, soothing sound around a targeted location, providing healing over time to allies and a small chance for sleep to enemies within its reach. Thunderous Boom: Targeted AoE Hold. You emit a thunderous boom around a foe so powerful it leaves enemies in shock, unable to function for a short time. Shattering wave: Targeted AoE foe -res, -tohit. You surround a foe with wave of sound that weakens the resistance to damage and chance tohit for all foes nearby (10% -res, 5% -tohit). Echo field: You create a floating field of sound that follows you, mimicking some of your attacks on enemies. This field of sound is so concentrated it has taken on physical force, and can be attacked, buffed, and healed. The longer your pet survives the more in sync you become, making the powers of both you and it more effective. Pet Powers: Piercing cry, Bellow, Howl (from Sonic Blast), and Synchronicity. Synchronicity = +Dmg (to you and pet) +Status Effect (to you and pet) increasing to 25% at full strength over 2 mins (5-10-15-25).

So I THINK I've come up with just a couple of simple changes that would greatly improve sonic resonance's QoL for players, especially allowing it to be a more solo-friendly set without losing its uniqueness for teams as it. Problems as I see it: Sonic is not at ALL solo friendly: Two of Sonic's best powers require a team member to use (Sonic Repulsion and Disruption field). Couple this with two of sonic's three ain survival powers not affecting self (Sonic Barrier and Sonic Haven), this makes sonic a terrible set for any solo play time. In addition to that, too many of Sonic's team powers are seriously imbalanced and situational; specifically, you have Sonic Cage, Sonic Repulsion, and Liquefy, all of which are either incredibly situational or impractical in normal use. The end cost of sonic repulsion coming per tic on a foe makes it's incredibly difficult to use well, even when teamed. Either you're using it on a player who really isn't in the thick of things, and doesn't need it and isn't costing much end, or it's on a player in the middle of a fight who could use it but then the end cost is ridiculous. Likewise, with it being knock back and not knockdown, using it on someone in the middle of the fight can be more annoying than helpful unless you slot the KB>KD IO. But even then it becomes an incredibly loud, constant end drain. Then there's Liquefy, which COULD be decent, but has such a ridiculously long recharge for what it does (300 seconds?!) that it's...not very practical. Fixes: I think just a couple tweaks would fix the set, while still keeping it largely the same "feel" for established players. There are two ways of going about these fixes, one minor, one more major. I'll post both options below. Fix 1: slight alteration of a couple key powers: Make Sonic Repulsion and Disruption field able to be targeted on either friend or foe. This way the powers could still be used while solo. At the same time, get rid of the "per tic" end cost of repulsion so that's it's actually useable while still attacking, etc. Then reduce the recharge time of Liquefy in half. It would still have a 2.5 minute recharge. IF you need to, at the time you do this, lower it's chance to hold. These changes would make the set MUCH more solo friendly while keeping what they add to team play right now. Fix 2: larger change This one takes its cue from Electrical Affinity, which recognizes some of the similar solo problems with its powers and includes a "pet" to allow the powers to be more solo friendly. For this version of Sonic, remove the "Clarity" power altogether, adding the mez resist to sonic dispersion. Replace Clarity with "Echo field". You create a floating echo field continually reflecting the sounds around it. This field follows you and is buffable. It will move to enemy targets in range, causing periodic tics of strong -tohit, because the echoes cause the enemies to become confused on where to attack. Because it is a targettable pet, this pet would allow you to use your sonic dispersion and your disruption field even while solo. Then, if you lower the recharge of Liquefy and either remove or lower the -tohit it gives in exchange for the -tohit aspect of echo, you'd have a solo friendly set. I would also suggest, for the first approach, to add a small AoE Heal over time to Clarity, and maybe change its name to "clarifying tones". But that definitely is a change to the 'tone' of the set in a way I think the others aren't.

I take it you play your kinetic defenders at ranged? Because I know I and a lot of other people don't, and they seem to play just fine. Not as sturdy as a brute of course, but just fine. And add in Sorcery and you're doing pretty solid on status protection when you need it, too. And the same goes for nature, time, sonic, and storm, which many people also play in melee range. All of which are entirely viable and in melee range at LEAST 50% of the time, at least in how I play them. By the way, what you describe as needing to be done is exactly what Guardians were going to be on Beta, and while I loved the concept (as did many who tested it) the Devs didn't like it and there were some very technical reasons given for why it would be a nightmare to do, which is why it was scrapped.

Im sorry but this is seriously flawed logic. The modifier isn't the reason single pet masterminds aren't popular. The reason is that to make a single pet mstermind, for the most part, you are just making a defender with fewer offensive power options. The majority (5) of your primary powers suddenly become useless (the three pet powers +2 equips). For almost all of them you could make the same kind of toon as a defender, only you'd have far more offensive power options. And I say this as someone who has run multiple single pet masterminds to incarnate level for concept. You could keep simply alter the defender melee modifier of you really wanted to to equal its ranged modifier, open up the melee sets to it, and make defenders a true "support" class that can play in melee or ranged. I have actually never understood why defenders were relegated to ranged combat when so many of their powers really benefit themselves and their team as well or better if they're in melee with the fighters.

Since the reason they gave for pets no longer benefiting from +recharge boosts was that their AI couldn't handle the cycling of attacks properly with range/melee, would this mean we could revisit that and let pets begin benefiting from recharge boosts again?

Well what you're suggesting is that a tanker gets to do near brute damage all the time, but a brute needs a team to reach near a tanker's survivability. At that point I can't think of any reason why someone wouldn't roll a tanker over a brute.

This is for all of us who have always wanted to make a truly "magical" defender/corruptor/controller/mastermind, but don't want to be bound purely to the "dark arts" of Darkness. The concept is a unique one, but I think it's doable, given that Radiation and Sorcery sets both have powers that act this way already: The "effects" of your powers will differ based on the target. Foes are debuffed/weakened, allies are buffed/healed. This would offer great adaptability between solo and team play. All of the numbers are based off Corruptor/Controller levels. I tried to use powers that already exist in some similar form and existing animations. Mystic Empowerment: You are a master of mystic forces, and can use both new and ancient incantations to aid your allies, weaken your foes, and turn the tides of battle against your enemies. Tier 1: Mending Incantation targetted AoE Heal/Heal Over Time You speak a mending spell which instantly heals a targeted ally and places a healing aura around him, sending tics of healing over time to all allies around him for a short duration. 83.35 Heal (8.5%) on target, 5 tics of 30 HoT over 30 seconds on nearby allies. Recharge 20 seconds. (This could use a slightly altered temporal mending animation combined with the runes aura.) Tier 2: Unveil Anima: Toggle Targeted AoE Ally +Resistance. Foe -dmg, -speed, -acc. You expose the true spiritual essence of your target for all to see. If cast on an ally, the vision inspires them, giving them strong resistance to all types of damage, and grants a moderate resistance boost to allies nearby. If cast on a foe, they are left exposed, suffering reduced damage and recharge, and even weakening the damage of other nearby foes. Foe cast: -20% dmg, -30 rech Ally cast: + 20% res on target, +12% res on nearby allies. This could use a slightly altered Darkest Night animation, combined with the effect from Possess. When cast on a foe it would have a dark tint, when cast on an ally it would have a bright one. Tier 3: Ethereal Vortex: Targetted AoE Ally +dmg, +rch. Foe -res, +slow You open a portal to the spiritual plane directly beneath your target, creating a patch of spiritual energy around them. If your target is an ally, the energy within the portal will bestow a boost to damage and recharge rate of allies within. If your target is a foe, the flames of the nether world will lower their resistances to damage and slow their movement and attack speeds. You may only have one active vortex at a time. Foe Cast: -30% res, -30% speed Ally cast: +20% dmg, +20% rech 90 second Recharge, 30 second duration. This could use a slightly altered tar patch animation (given a "flaming" outline), combined with the "dome" effect from Time Manipulation's "distortion field or perhaps an altered version of gravity's phase location based AoE. Tier 4: Arcane Fires: Targetted AoE Absord/ Single target Fire DoT, -tohit You can can imbue your allies or curse a foe with arcane fires. They become surrounded by flaming swords. Allies will find these swords offer protection, absorbing incoming damage until they dissipate. Foes will find themselves under assault from the flames, suffering damage over time and a decreased chance tohit. Foe Cast: -20% tohit for 30 seconds, 30 tics of .33 fire damage over 30 seconds. Ally cast: +30% Absorb for 30 seconds. Recharge 45 seconds I'd LIKE this to use the flaming swords from the Apex TF, only smaller versions that simply hover around your target. Tier 5: Vexing Ward You can imbue an ally or foe with a vexing spell. This ward will protect an ally from status affects like fears,holds,confuses,sleeps, and disorients. When used on a single foe, this ward has a strong chance to Disorient them briefly. Foe cast: Mag 3 Disorient, 9.5 secs. Ally cast: Mag 10 status Res. 90 secs. 16 second Recharge This could just use a combination of the empower demons animation from demon summoning and the "enforce morale" animation from Pain Domination on the recipient (or a standard disorient animation on a foe). Tier 6: Judgement of the First Ones Team Resurrect, +dmg/ foe +Negative dmg, +fear. You call upon the judgement of the First Ones for all who have fallen in combat nearby. Fallen allies nearby will be granted a return to life for their heroic deeds and be empowered for battle, while fallen foes will unleash torment on their own kind. Foe Cast: +145 Negative Energy damage, 6 second mag 3 fear. Ally Cast: Team Rez, +30% dmg 60 seconds. 90 second Recharge This would use the Howling Twilight animation on allies, and the Fallout animation on a Foe. Tier 7: Counter Spells: PBAoE Toggle: Foe placate You are constantly casting counter spells to incoming attacks. These spells are simple magic and don't always work, but affected foes nearby will find themselves unable to attack you. 4 second mag 2 placate, 50% chance, 4 sec mag 1 placate, 80% chance, 15 foot radius. 20 second recharge. This would use a demon summoning rune animation at start, then he World of Pain dome animation from Pain Domination while active. Tier 8: Celestial Winds Ranged Facing Cone: +Regeneration/+Recovery You can summon the celestial winds, giving you and allies in front of you a boost to your Regeneration and recovery. Allie + 20% Regen, +20% Recover. Recharge 240 seconds, duration 120 seconds. Effects do not stack from the same caster. This would use the animation from Regrowth, adding in runes from the rune aura to make it appear mystical in nature. Tier 9: Summon Familiars Ally +absorb, +dmg, +Tohit You summon familiar spirits for you and your allies. A single spirit will follow each teammate, protecting them from pain while helping them make their attacks more damaging and likely to hit. These sprits can be attacked, and will eventually dissipate. summon pet :familiar. These would be "buffed up" versions of the wisp vet reward buffing pet, summoning one for each member of the team. They would have a moderate amount of their own HP, and would give themselves and their target periodic tics of 10% absorb every .5 seconds, 18% +dmg, and 12.5% +tohit. They would last for 90 seconds. Recharge 255 seconds. Duration: 90 seconds.

Except changing modifiers or increasing the AoE caps doesn't allow a tank to get near brute damage levels with "a few external buffs"...it makes them near them permanently. If the proposal were JUST giving tankers a buff that applied when teaming I'd have no problems. As is, its basically just making them brutes. Maybe even better than brutes. IMO the best answer is what they did with defenders, who faced a similar problem: up their damage and they just outshine blasters. As is, they were too weak and hard to solo. So give them a solo buff and a team buff. Do the same with tankers. When solo, tankers get a +dmg buff and perhaps even an AoE radius increase. When teamed, give them a taunt increase and team +res aura. Done.

Are we sure about that? I feel like my brutes usually keep up with my blasters in the damage department. That being said blasters do NOT need any buffs. After the last round, they are no longer glass cannons if you have any idea what you're doing. They're sturdy, powerful, and can run non-stop. I have more than 1 blaster farmer, even.

Personally, I think it should really be like this. Tankers-Very High Survival-strong taunt, moderate AoE and single target damage. Scrappers- Moderate survival, no taunt, moderate Single target, strong AoE damage. Increase crit chance on AoEs Brutes- High survival-weak taunt, moderate AoE/strong single target damage. Stalkers- low/Moderate survival, no taunt, Very strong single target, Moderate AoE damage. Increase crit chance on single target attacks, keep assassin's guaranteed crit as is. Each has a specialty that way. Either they are the meat shield with moderate damage and taunt, or they're the melee AoE damage, or they're the steamroller able to take down mobs but still also to take on a boss, or they're the bosses killer taking things down one at a time quickly. Of course this would have required slightly differen variations of the powers for scrappers, kind of like stalkers. Give scrappers one more AoE attack or up the damage of their AoEs via crits and lower their recharge.