Voltak

Thank you. I reposted the video. I changed it and added a few things to correct.

I present two examples using actual game play under the following difficulty settings: 1) No Inspirations 2) No deaths allowed 3) No temp powers 4) No P2W powers Since I have done the Apex with many different characters in small teams or in duos, I have some examples to compare. Here I am comparing two examples, each on different runs (obviously) but done by an Electric Affinity Defender and another done by a Dark Miasma Defender in a duo setting. So, who, out of only these two examples, who would be better at face tanking, or standing next to the pylon, who could take on the duties of taking on the bulk of the aggro, or all the aggro, by the pylon hydras... BY THEMSELVES, IF THE situation arose ? To answer the question, we need to look at the instruments available for survival that each power set has. We need to look at how Electric Affinity may use those instruments in order to survive and stay next to the pylon until the pylon is destroyed. Then we look at what instruments Dark Miasma has and how he or she may use them to take on this challenge.

So, a very good situation arose when we tried to do a perfect run of the ITF. We wanted to make the run as difficult as possible while making sure we: 1. Had access to all our powers up to level 50. 2. We did not have any incarnates available 3. Our enemies would spawn at +4, +5, and +6 levels above us. 4. We disabled all inspirations, temps, p2w 5. If we had a team wipe or all members of team died, then we would disband. 6. We had a maximum of 6 players in the team It was a team of defenders and corruptors. We had, among other great stuff in the team, 1) Elec Affinity Defender ( that was me), 2) One Nature Defender (played by @Rev 3) Trick Arrow played by @midnight 4) Kinetics Corruptor 5) Cold and 6) I can't remember the sixth person. We were cruising and doing very well during Parts 1, 2, and 3. Starting Part 4, well, four team members thought or felt so safe and confident, that they headed right away to face the group of Rommy AV and the Nictus AVs. For those of you who don't know, the Nictus AV is auto-hit, they DO NOT MISS at all. When they spawn +5 or above , they hit tremendously hard. Well, those who went ahead they died, to include the Trick Arrow. Our perfect run was ruined. A minute or two after those those deaths, the Nature Defender sends me a private message. He said: "If only they would have waited for either you or I to load into the map and catch up, they would have lived". I told him that I was thinking the same exact thing. If the Electric Affinity or the Nature Defender would have been there, no one would have died. The debuffers could not do much to save anyone, especially when these AVs are +5 or higher.

This FELT like it was 3 vs 300, the horde just kept coming and our team was at the brink of elimination. The adrenaline rush in the face of this challenge was amazing.

I posted this in another thread, but I will copy and paste that here since it is 100% relevant In defense to Trick Arrow, and why I think Trick Arrow is the king of debuffs --Trick arrow has something that no one else has. You know all those resists to debuffs that enemies have ?You know all those resists that purple patch have?Enter ACID ARROW !! The only power in the game in a debuff set that will LOWER THE RESISTANCES TO THE DEBUFFS. It is why in one of my super hard AE challenges, I feature trick arrow enemies. They will melt any team that thinks they are going to make it with a conventional team make up. You have an SR tank that thinks he is immune to defense debuffs ?Enemies with trick arrow will quickly make the defenses of an SR tank , or , to be precise, his resistance to defense debuffs, a trick arrow will kill that, ACID ARROW ! I had the best of the best tankers, even Linea, die on the very first mob. Acid arrow was a huge reason why. It kills the resistances to the debuffs.

I totally understand. Also, by him or herself, the team is still needing some other forms of buff as the difficulty climbs.

Combining - 1) The Supreme set of Electric Affinity to keep the team alive 2) The very strong set of Time Manipulation to provide high levels of defense and damage reduction by slowing the enemies. 3) Two Ice Blast sets (one Blaster) to provide Blizzard to kill the enemies quickly A Three-man team doing the Tin Man incarnate trial at max difficulty set for a full team of eight people. All inspirations, temp powers, p2w are DISABLED. NO DEATHS ALLOWED.

@Linea and myself would respectfully disagree or say this is wrong. Let me explain - a power boosted Force Field from a Defender, even with Clarion Radial T4, is going to provide a super level of defense with so much buffer that it becomes hard for you to be defense debuffed to dangerous degree since the team, before the bubbles are applied, is already at soft cap defenses. He can get you to the hard cap defense level almost by himself. And, also it provides endurance drain resistance which abound in these upper echelon challenges.

I think I did post the build in another thread. I have to look to make sure. You are welcome

To be totally honest, and based from experience, the best kind of "dominator" using Ice/ Control that I have played so far is an Ice/Storm Controller post lvl 35, and even better after getting T3 Ageless. You got a damage secondary, very good AoE, defensive tools in the secondary that mesh well with Ice control and debuffs to increase your damage as well. Throw in Water Spout from Leviathan Epic... voila !

Check your in-box so you have some context. Believe me, I really did not honestly foresee this. I apologize to you.

I am simply stating the facts and qualifying that with experience in the issue. At the highest of difficult content, AEON is no where near what AE has, it is far more important for the team to have the buffs/heals/absorbs than it is to have a trick arrow in the team. Those of us who have done this have stated this already. Trick Arrow or not in the team will be wrecked without those Nature or Electric Affinity or Thermal types of support. Please stop arguing about this.

Again, one thing is theory, the other is practice and experience. Some people talk from experience, others talk based on... yeah. So, from experience with the higher difficulty content, and as more and more degrees of difficulty arise, the sets mentioned (Nature and Elec Affinity) are the top for support to keep the team alive and be able to do dmg, or debuffs and so on. Those without the experience just don't have the same weight when providing the answers to what the OP is asking for. So, let it go...

Right, sure. I have done plenty , hundreds of 801 runs in maps full of EBs, no bosses, and AVs as well. You are stating theories. Log your Dom, I will set the 801, 7 minimum, or higher, come test your Dom. I want to see what you are claiming have done. You think your stealth can survive those enemies with +perception? You think you can Mass confuse your way through these EBs ? Solo? Right.... You thought you be capable of things before and I seen what happens. Prove it, or it did not happen nor will it happen. Remember you tell me that you can do things, then you can't do them. Then you tell me that I cannot do things, but I show you I do them. Like the Carnies Like you also told me I can't solo the LR SF at 54x8, no insps, and... I did that too. So, show me what you claim you are able to do. Otherwise, it's a no go. This is about you dom being able to solo these 801s at the highest tiers, specifically your claim that you can solo these Elite Bosses by yourself with Mass Confusion. Don't change the goal post.

Elite Bosses These are not bosses. Enough said. Then you have to deal with enemies that you can't see. Then you have to deal about enemies with +perception and who are able to see you in invisibility. Again, let's stop the theories. This is the time for those with actual experience and planty of hands on in these runs need to come here and share from actual experience. Actual experience says that support to keep the team alive, direct support like buffs/heals/absorbs. from Elec Affinity or Nature, they reign supreme at the higher difficulty echelons.

But even in my AE challenges, you and I know that without the EMPTH, the confuse trick would not be enough. That's also not going to do much vs the Stalker ATs found in AE, including your 801. Some of them can see you before you see them, then it's lights out.

One of the few, the proud... Not very many running that combo. Good to see 🙂

Yes, last Sunday was fun indeed. Dark Miasma is an old but still a classic, tested, proven, reliable. But not very many of those in combo with radiation. I don't see a whole lot of dark miasma defenders anymore either. But it sure is GREAT.

Purple patch is a factor, regardless. But that's not the issue at hand. If you read my post before, I praised Trick Arrow and I mentioned the golden power of Trick Arrow that no other sets have. I also said that it's the king of debuffs for that reason too. However, a much bigger priority when dealing with very difficult content is the issue of surviving, players who are dead will do no debuff and no damage. As difficulty is raised, the more likely it is that you will die if all you have is debuffs. Debuffs therefore are trumped by buffs, heals, and absorbs as you climb up the ladder of difficulty. There is stuff that you can do with only debuffs, and there are more difficult things that you cannot do with debuffs alone. Sufficient damage can overcome everything only as long as you can live to dish it out.

Mez, As the difficulty challenge gets steeper and steeper, you will be able to do the mission without the Trick Arrow. You will NOT be able to complete objective and keep the team alive without characters like Nature oR Elec Affinity or thermals in combination with the others stated before. Without those you are going to get wrecked. That right there is a fact. So, trick arrow is below in importance and critical need. You can dispose of Trick Arrow it can be left out. That's experience talking. You will not ever debuff every enemy all the time, but you can buff your own team mates, heal them, provide absorbs, and so on Last but not least, you went off about how your Dominator was soooo tanky and could face tank Carnies. You said he could tank better than my Dark dominator. You even critiqued my dominator for trying to stealth and confuse from stealth. What happened in the test when you did it was that 1. You ended doing what you critiqued. 2. I ended up face tanking everything in the map. 3. I never ran to the hills and never took cover behind a rock. 4. I also used confused or possess 5. I was there in front of the mobs doing the tanking that you said I could not do and which you said you could do. 6. I did all that without using Lores, which you right away resorted to. Let's end this If you think Trick Arrow is more important than Elec Affinity or Nature is extremely hard content, let's put it to the test again. Tell me when you can log in. Bring your Trick Arrow, I will bring my Elec Affinity. We will have a team do an 801, at lvl 7 or above. Your turn will be only the trick arrow for support. My team will have the Elec Affinity. No other AT in the team that can provide heals or buffs besides that of Incarnates. Let's see what team last longer and has fewer deaths. Same team so the variables don't change except for the support type. I know right away how this is going to end. Want to bet ?

Poison Gas arrow will not net you more. EBs +4 and above , especially with purple patch will resist a good chunk. That's one issue. Second issue, Poison Gas Arrow only affects what it hits or is in the AOE range. Everything else is free to hit you with no debuffs. Shields and Absorbs don't care who's in the AoE or out of the area. They cover you regardless. You doing a lot of "theories" You stating what you imagine will work out. In practice, as experience proves, that's not going to work if you imagine you going to debuff every enemy every time. EMP has a LOOONG recharge. In comparison to absorbs, buffs, heals, Faraday Cage (Mex protection and resists ) is available always for the team. Enemies will hit you. As difficulty level goes up, they will hit you, Trick Arrow on the team or not, they will hit you, they will debuff you and dmg will be high. AEON SF or even greater and harder challenges , enemies going to hit you hard. Nothing will replace those buffers , healers and providers of absorb. They are more important and critical to keeping the team alive. Debuffers, are good, important, but when facing more challenges, they cannot replace those last line of defense that will keep you alive for the team to debuff or dmg. A trick arrow is not ever going to carry the mantle to keep the team alive in very difficult challenges. Want to prove it? It's easy to prove. I speak from experience. I been with debuffers and buffers in extreme challenges. THere's no question that the buffers/healers/providers of absorb are vastly more important to keep team alive than the debuffers. Debuffers will not prevent the team from getting wrecked when difficulty goes up. That's what the Elec affinity , Nature and thermal will do. Easy way to prove this, like the last time we had a debate in which you claimed something. WE can always log in and settle the issue. I am confident about how this is going to end up. Already been there done that, got the t-shirt. AE 801 was being done, no direct support in team. Debuffers and dmg in team and tanks. Dead , players dead on the regular... One of the players leaves the team... spot opens up. I bring my Elec Affinity, everything changes. I have it on video and I posted here in the forums. Debuffs alone will never ever do nor fulfill what is needed when the degree of difficulty goes up very high. You going to get wrecked over and over. Not only in that video was it proven but it's been proven over and over the more we do extreme challenges. You can continue with your theories all you want. But when it comes down to testing and seeing if you can prove what YOU talk, I know exactly how it's going to end. The same way it's ended in the past.

That is the bottom line.

There is not so much resistance and defense buff that you can net out in extreme challenges because debuffs are coming. Any thing over the cap will be used as a buffer to face the debuffs coming at you. Then you have damage heading your way, and IT WILL come your way. That's when the buffs and burst healing and even stronger still -- THE ABSORBS, that's when those will leave the other stuff down below in lower tiers. Again, debuffing is great and it is applauded and super important. But as greater degrees of difficulty come by, Elec Affinity and Nature will inevitable show why they are top tier to keep any team alive and enable them to keep debuffing or dishing out dmg.

It does not outperform ELec Affinity nor Nature 1. Trick Arrow does not do nor can it provide what ELec Affinity does nor Nature. 2. Elec Affinity and Nature is directly involved with buffs which ensure or enormously contribute to keeping team alive when facing dmg and debuffs. Nature affinity also has more debuffs than Elec Affinity. 3. 801s are vastly more difficult at certain tiers and above and so are other AE challenges, to include the ones I have made. They are made for players who enjoy higher challenges than provided in the game by the Devs. It is certainly a bar, especially for players who enjoy greater challenges than regular game content. *** You ready to be recorded while doing 801s 7 and above solo with your Mind dom? *** Prove it or it did not happen nor will it happen. Again the higher the tier of difficulty, the more buffs/absorbs/heals/resistances and such come to take a higher priority. You will not debuff nor dmg anything if you are dead.

AEON relentless is not as hard as the challenges in AE, especially some tiers and over of those 801s and some other AE challenges. Even in AEON, to keep a team alive and suffer either no deaths, or the least deaths as possible, Elec Affinity and Nature Affinity have no equals. The OP said hard content , let's talk about the very upper echelons of hard content, you are going to get debuffs rained down upon your team. Whatever high defenses you think you have, you will lost all or a great deal of it. ( This is why @Linea made a very very strong point that a PB Force Field , especially with Clarion Radial T4) is the exception to the average defense buffs and is very good). That hard cap defense limit provides a good buffer. But even then... that still requires additional support to keep team alive and that is directly what is needed from sets like Elec Affinity and Nature. Also... Your resistances will also lower. You cannot replace, and you cannot give a higher priority to anything other than Elec Affinity or Nature. Trick Arrow players will also die without support. You are going to get killed when the debuffs and damage start pouring in. Elec Affinity and Nature will keep you going AS YOU CLIMB THE LADDER OF DIFFICULT CHALLENGES in the game.