drbuzzard

Out of this world, even.

So let's take a look at what it says under Dark Melee for example: Shadow Maul: on top of the screen when you check info while building a tanker it says: 123.98 damage However when you check the details we get 4 ticks of 10.69 smashing and the same of negative energy. That's 85. I'd call that a discrepancy. Midnight grasp is also screwed up with a listed damage of 158.89 up top, but below we have 116.75+5 ticks of 5.81 which comes to 145.8 I did notice that Psi melee has one of those % chance DoTs and I'll just leave that alone since figuring that damage is annoying. I suppose I could go pound on a pylon to verify actual numbers, but I rather lack that level of dedication.

Whether or not aracanatime matters for most folks, if you intend to compare sets, you need to compare them at their actual numbers (which means arcanatime) when used optimally. You can't really do a meaningful comparison with variable gaps between powers. One can assume even in casual usage, the sloppiness will be roughly equal across sets, and the comparison will still be valid from the optimal case.

Just did a quick google spreadsheet to use arcanatime to derive DPAS (damage per activation second). Of course given how questionable the in game number are (as are the ones in Hero Designer), I'd take it all with a grain of salt. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NS-91u75M8w59aXExuRSYkODoJQLQhH5CGcL7Dvk9hk/edit?usp=sharing I suppose I should be clear why I question the numbers: A) If you read the provided numbers for tankers, they very often don't add up if you look at the listed numbers at the bottom compared to the total damage at the time. Single damage type attacks seem to fare better in this (War Mace or Stone Melee). Psi melee, dark melee, or energy melee all have issues when you pull up the in game numbers. B) Because I was curious about why psi melee looked so bad when I collected numbers (using the below numbers, not the above numbers), I ran one of my tanks that used it and looked at what I was getting in the combat log. Of course resistance could be the issue to some degree, but it was higher than the below numbers certainly.

The damage from total focus and energy transfer are deceptive because of the long animations. Energy transfer is still pretty solid with a 86 DPAS (using arcanatime), but total focus does less damage for the time than energy punch (but about the same as bone smasher). I bet you'd do a better attack chain using ET, BS, G, and EP if you worked it out. Total focus may hit hard but that doesn't matter if it takes forever when you'd do more damage in that time with other attacks. Let's ignore how things actually work, and say we could just chain total focus or energy punch by themselves into an attack chain. EP, EP, EP... or TF, TF, TF... We'll do 10 TF to make it easy to give the picture. That will take 34.3 seconds and do 1880 damage In that time we can do 37 energy punches. Each of those does 52.83 damage. Summed up they come to 1961 damage. You lose damage in any time spent on total focus over energy punch. Though it's not a huge difference, it is there. Gloom also has better damage in the time, so in that 10 TF time it would do 2261 damage. Of course I did a bit of testing with my psi melee tank and it seems the damage listed for the attacks don't match what I see when I do combat log, so I question most numbers. However slow attacks are still slow attacks and make for lousy attack chains.

I think I'm going to be forced to work on a spreadsheet project.

The tanker buffs did change the ranged AT modifier for tanks. This is why I'm using in game numbers. Is that from Mids? If so, their numbers are often FUBAR as well. Maybe a mix of damage numbers between in game and Mids might get us somewhere close to the truth. I'll read up on arcanatime.

Yeah, but blasters (at endgame of course) don't really faceplant. When survivability is good enough for a 4 person blaster team to do a Master of Imperious Task force with no inspirations in 30 minutes, mitigation isn't really something to get fixated on. If the 'least' durable AT can blow through a reasonably hard TF when they set it to be as hard as possible, then a defensive secondary on a sentinel is like putting an bullet proof vest on an Abrahms tank. Except in this case the tank doesn't really have much of a gun on it. In a game without PPPs, IOs, and the blaster upgrades that happened right before the snap, sure. In an SO game, sentinel secondaries are wonderful, and being alive is a DPS consideration. We just don't happen to play in that game.

Nope, no arcanatime, just the numbers from in game for animation. I know they're off, but I don't know arcanatime well enough to figure out how that might skew things. I guess it adds some time to things based on counter clicks which puts a hit on lower animation attacks. It is a bit weird since the results from that chart don't make a lot of sense. Both energy punch and bone smasher are higher DPAS than gloom (and even barrage, which makes no sense at all) even though bonesmasher is longer animation, while energy punch is shorter animation and by listed time, both are behind it.

The fixation some people have on mitigation is a bit odd IMO. Mitigation doesn't get you experience. Mitigation doesn't get you influence. Mitigation doesn't get you drops. It does allow you to do certain things if you push the envelope and take on the hardest stuff around, but the examples one has to come up with are basically piss poor when one looks at return on time. Solo an ITF? Sure, there went an hour+ which could have gained you much more doing something else. Mitigation past a certain point doesn't do diddly squat for most people. For people trying to set records on the hardest stuff I suppose it does. Of course we also play in a game where people can simply AFK farm without actually playing, basically a step away from the auto granting functions on the test server. That makes it hard to care much about the rate at which one collects rewards while playing. It seems to me that the devs must think at least somewhat like I do since they substantially upped the damage output of the most durable AT in the game recently. I think the idea was that being tough as an impervium ingot is all well and good, but if it bores the crap out of everyone so the AT doesn't get played because being inert is not appealing, you might want to change that.

Gotta agree with Vanden, the heals in medicine pool are actually fairly powerful based on healing value and recharge. Only the interrupt is a real drawback.

One night, when it may have been the case that I had a few beers too many, I made a new alt, and was shocked that I was able to get a certain name. Upon waking up in the morning and logging in, I was greeted by Sister Psyco. Derp.

I doubt it. TF just has a lousy DPAS. 241+78+188+78/(2.67+3.3+1.1+1.1) = 72 That doesn't really change much since adding in more Gloom which has a DPAS about the same as the (not really chain) chain I posted can't shift it any. Energy punch has a DPAS of 63 iirc, so there's no helping it (and bonesmasher is even lower than energy punch though higher than total focus). For the hell of it, let's look at ET like it used to be (had a 1 second animation like power thrust) DPAS is stupid east to calculate 241/1 (derp) so 241 DPAS. Of course working up a chain is more than I want to figure out right now, but just imagine what that does to an average when most everything else tankers have seems to cap at 125. Back at the dawn of time I did a fairly extensive analysis of the tanker secondaries with chains and all that good stuff. This was back before war mace got buffed, with the original tanker sets. Energy melee was single target king, and it wasn't even vaguely close.

I think you are being rather hyperbolic. Sentinels are nowhere near as bad as you describe them. I think they need help, but they are not an utter train wreck (like khelds out of the box). Really sentinels need a bit more damage and they will be OK. Your suggestions were way too powerful. Though perhaps that's how the first iteration on the test server should be started and then whittled down from there. When we compare blasters and sentinels completely to the advantage of blasters, it's at end game with incarnate abilities, builds which cost around a billion influence, and the PPPs thrown in. This isn't the whole game. I'll admit, I like that part more, but I oddly enough also like sentinels. Truth is, sentinels have a much easier ride to 50 than blasters, so for those who don't just PL alts up to 50, and deck them out from farming money, they are a pleasant AT which is fun to play, lacking the frustration of taking a blaster up the levels. There is a space for them in the game, they just don't have a very compelling space at the top end of power at endgame.

That's not quite true. Have to take numbers from in game (and do the math myself since the in game numbers and math are often FUBAR). I'm also not going to figure out actual optimal attack chains since I'm lazy. I will put in what I recall from tanks I have and how I can chain. Energy Transfer: damage 241, animation 2.67 sec, DPAS: 90 Total Focus: damage 188, animation 3.3 sec, DPAS 57 Gloom: damage 78.32, animation 1.1, DPAS 71.2 So for the chain 241+188+78/ (2.67+3.3+1.1)= 72 Considering energy punch has a higher DPAS than total focus, you'd be wise to work it into the chain (but this is what you wanted to compare) Let's try War Mace Clobber: damage 154, animation 1.23, DPAS 125 Pulverize: damage 86.64, animation 1.5, DPAS 58 Jawbreaker: damage 104, animation 1.83, DPAS 57 Gloom: damage 78.32, animation 1.1, DPAS 71.2 so for the chain 154+87+104+78/(1.23+1.5+1.83+1.1) = 74.7 so a slight edge, and you also have AOE in the set. Let's try Stone Melee, always known for single target power. Stone Fist: damage 53, animation .83, DPAS 63.65 Heavy Mallet: damage 120, animation 1.63, DPAS 74 Stone Mallet: damage 86, animation 1.61, DPAS 53 Seismic Smash: damage 188, animation 1.5, DPAS 125 Gloom: damage 78.32, animation 1.1, DPAS 71.2 We can easily chain all these (which won't be optimal since stone mallet kinda sucks) 53+120+86+188+78/(.83+1.63+1.61+1.5+1.1) = 78.7 I'm pretty sure a better chain can be built using more stone fist and taking out stone mallet. (this is being tried on my SM/Bio brute without perma hasten, so it's the best chain I can do- numbers are still tanker) SS, SF, HM, SF, G, SF, repeat 188+53+120+53+78+53 /(1.5+.83+1.63+.83+1.1+.83)= 81.1 There might be better possible, but that's certainly not bad. I'd consider doing fire melee, but I hate the DoT calculations.

Invincibility gives defense based on how many enemies are around you. It stacks up to quite a substantial value (starts at 6% unenhanced for the first one and 1% more per add up to 10). It is far more powerful than weave, for less endurance cost. Tough hide is an autopower, so no endurance cost for equal defense to weave. To see those as even close is utterly fatuous.

Do you remember back in the day when an odd interaction of gauntlet made tanker single target attacks into effectively AOEs if you stacked the bodies close enough? Now ET was damned deadly in those days.

I think if the goal was to make it a well rounded set comparable to other melee sets, then yes. It would need a major re-tooling. However if they just wanted to put it back to where it was, which was king of a single target, but an AOE joke, then the tinkering would be minor. Heck, just putting energy transfer back on the original animation would likely make it a single target contender (not sure of the numbers against current sets, so I don't know that it would be king). If you also reduced the total focus animation, I bet it would clearly be king. Most people who ask for changes to EM want it back as it was, a mean single target set which was AOE LOL.

If you think MA is bad, EM will be worse. While it does appear that the devs will be buffing the set, we have no idea when that will occur. Hence you will be stuck with an underperforming tank for the interim. The important thing to realize when you look at EM is not how high the damage is on any given attack, it is how much damage it does in a given amount of time. Once upon a time Em was king of the single target hill because energy transfer was fast. Then it got nerfed into a slow animation, and this honestly broke the set.

On a positive note the amount of things which manage to actually be tough in this game is vanishingly small, so sentinels should feel secure enough. I do enjoy the +4 MoITF time challenge we run on Excelsior, and right now the reining champs are blasters (they just narrowly beat the def/corr team I had previously set the record with). The organizer keeps bugging me to get a sentinel team together, but when the blasters are able to survive and set a fast time, there's simply no way for sentinels to beat that. If survival is our edge, and the blasters can survive it, we sure as hell can't out damage them.

But what? I mean, sure, we could pick one of the two choices already in use by DPS classes, but that really is about it, and it won't be novel at all. I'll see if we do see it going towards a crit solution, I'd like it to be more like the 'I have a choice' stalker type. Perhaps something which has a power/bar like domination that once activated grants a pretty damned high crit rate (like 25%+, not a piddling 10%) for all attacks for a period of time. Of course this again would be the feast or famine we are supposed to have now (which we only kind of do). Really I'd rather have something which builds up and is consistent. Personally I'm simply not the biggest fan of crits since the randomness means I'm as likely to crit a lieutenant as boss (using scrappers as an example). Yes, I understand that each crit roll will hopefully be independent (unless they have a streakbreaker active), but it will realistically only pop so often.

Defenders barely needed? You can steamroll this game easiest with a pure defender team. Also resistance debuff isn't really about reducing an amount of resistance, it effectively acts as a damage boost. If I do 30% resistance debuff to a target, I do 30% more damage. While that may seem obvious, the fact that every resistance power in the game inherently resists resistance debuff by exactly as much as the value of the power means it really does just act as a damage boost. However it is an independent damage boost from damage enhancement. What it does mean, though, is you never hit a 0% resistance, you just keep boosting damage (I believe there is a cap, but I don't recall what it is 400% maybe). But what other options are really on the table? Let's look at DPS classes: Blasters, brutes- enhance damage Scrappers, stalkers - have crits (some argue corrupters are a DPS class, though I would not as their scalar is so low, but they crit also) Right now sentinels do a combination of enhancement and resistance debuff, which is at least something different even if implemented a bit poorly and in an underpowered fashion. Most options seem to be handing crits to sentinels to replace the current flawed system. That would be fairly brutal for all the proc builds as resistance debuff at least helps them, crits won't very much.

I haven't seen anyone really come up with a particularly new suggestion for sentinels but then game mechanics rather limit the amount of 'new' options really so this isn't a criticism. I've suggested stacking up resistance before, but I think CP doesn't like that notion. It allows too much team stacking I suspect. It's how we always did superteams back in the day (stacked buff/debuff classes). So that basically leaves us with two ways of boosting damage on the table (OK, I guess just a straight up boost of the scalar is an option, but I doubt they'd want to boost it up enough to make it feel like a DPS class). That can be something which simply enhances damage (like defiance or fury) or you can do crits (scrappers, stalkers, corrupters). Personally, I'm not a particular fan of fully random crits (like scrappers), but rather like controlled ones (stalkers). Of course while I do appreciate the analysis by CP, it doesn't include the ATOs, and those are truly make it or break it items on any scrapper build. The difference in performance between a scrapper with or without them is night and day. The sentinel ATOs are fully meh by comparison. A trivial amount of absorption or a boost to get the lackluster inherent working. I understand that things aren't balanced around ATOs (or IOs) in theory. Right now competitive sentinel builds are fully dependent on procs. Without them sentinel damage is fully lackluster. Hence it's hard to consider anything without IOs and ATOs. Also one should note that the analysis is at even level. However the way the powers interact makes for greater penalty against higher level targets. Let me demonstrate: He talks about stacked enhancement and resistance debuff. So at best you have 20% damage boost from offensive opportunity, 30% resistance debuff (from the target). So in practice, we'll assume 100% damage enhancement. If we take a power of 100 damage (before scalar) we get .95*2.2*1.3*100= 271 (- with no opportunity we have .95 *2.0*1.05 *100=199) Then we look at scrappers (I'm assuming bosses or Lts since nobody will be wasting opportunity on minions) to compare. 1.125*2*1.1*100 = 248 . As the uptime is around 50% we get 235 for sentinel damage. Averaging the feast and the famine makes it look pretty sparse. However it is at least ballpark. However let's look at fighting +2s. The purple patch means both damage done and the debuffs are both scaled down to 80%. So let's see what we get: Scrappers are nice and simple since the patch only applies once straight up to damage: 248*.8= 198 However the sentinel is a bit more complicated since the damage and the debuff are both affected so the level effect is squared. So it ends up being (.95*2.2*.8)*(1.3*.8) which gets us 173. So now, against mere +2s, feast becomes famine. (and of course this is worse against higher levels). If we throw in scrapper ATOs it really goes to hell. 1.125*2*1.16*100= 261 (208 vs +2s) Even if sets were equivalent scrappers are clearly ahead, and honestly against hard targets, which are worth a lot more, they are well ahead. Honestly, the way the purple patch works, I think CP's concern about resistance debuff is probably overdone as it suffers a square effect purple patch. Honestly I think a strong case could be made for the resistance debuff stacking mechanic on all attacks just as something different for a DPS class, which also helps teams.

Maybe I'm a bit odd, but I find double rage stacking and the associated double crashes too annoying to put up with, so I just make sure I single stack it. YMMV of course. When I saw the power field medic existed, I somehow assumed medicine pool might now be worth a damn. Nope. Field medic is pretty much worthless (it doesn't work at all on aid self).

I have a shield/dark melee tanker with perma soul drain. The damage is pretty crazy and I don't get a rage crash.