Forager

Yeah that's about as thorough as you can get. Some things can't be helped. There is no limit to how ignorant or even intentionally disruptive people online can be. For me? I think you do a fine job explaining things... but I feel comfortable asking questions and when I'm not sure what to do I stop shooting and stop moving until I am sure. If I'm totally lost, sometimes I will click my team leader, hit F, then watch for a few seconds. I also respect your time and expertise. I don't think any of that is typical, though. There's an acceptable rate of failure and each person has their own beliefs about it. My point is that if a leader is dissatisfied with their rate of success, then they are the ones who have to solve that problem whether or not someone else should. I would extend that at least in part to the more experienced players as well. This is before we even get into the rate at which warm bodies turn into experienced players, and whether or not that's also your responsibility... which is what I'm really curious about.

Only if they have a problem. I was discussing the problems leaders and more experienced players face, while offering the inexperienced player's perspective. Chief among them those problems and one that very likely applies to you as an expert: they are so knowledgeable and familiar they have no concept of how far removed their understanding of what's happening is from the average player, let alone the below average ones. And every time I talk about that aspect of leadership, someone invariably says some version "If they don't know something... they should ask." The perspective I'm offering is that some don't know what they should ask... they don't know that they don't know something... they might not even know that there's something they are supposed to know. There are players in your failed runs that don't know it failed... and even more that don't know why it failed. Maybe they don't know because they didn't ask, but they definitely don't know because you didn't tell them. This isn't a CoH Master run specific issue, though. This is a general principle of skill and knowledge transfer.

I have a perspective for you as an inexperienced, but interested player. When I join Master runs, I know that there are specific requirements, and I might kinda know what they are or be able to look them up... but I have no idea, mechanically speaking, how to make that happen. This is where a leader would typically come in, but it's been my experience that the leader of these is mostly only telling people when. They barely say what, rarely say how and almost never say why. I think they are so familiar with the content they cannot relate to the perspective of a newcomer. They don't say much and they often don't realize how much of what they are saying is meaningless to others. There are people on your runs who have never opened their Combat Attributes window and looked at their stats. There are people on your Master runs that don't know what "incan" means. There are people on Master runs that don't know what Master runs are.

I'm not sure whether this qualifies as life-like, but my intent was to create something grounded and realistic. It does exist within the game universe... just as a bit of a deconstruction. Shard: Excelsior Base Code: DAYPASS-18887 Builder or Owner: @Forager Special Considerations: If you like walking, I recommend walking everywhere inside except for the gym area. Once you find your way outside, you can run everywhere except the nightclub where I strongly recommend walking as you approach the line to get in. The teleporters (both internal and external) are hidden for aesthetic reasons so they don't glow or make noise, but they were not intended to be hard to find. The danger room has no public entrance and the small nightclub inside is only a preview and backup for the larger one outside and cannot be accessed. Teleporter locations: A brief description: When property values in Dark Astoria flipped and went negative, those willing to take risks had a chance to shape the future of the zone. Forager was able to secure half a city block just outside of Little Cimerora and opened The Apparatus, a small company that supplies training and equipment to Natural origin heroes. They share the block with the private military force that was contracted to reclaim the area, but rumors suggest that the two groups share more than walls, especially after the opening of Opportunity Square. Forager got the first crack at the real estate there as well, opening Club Twilight and gaining even more influence. Recently though, progress in the area has stalled. City officials are blaming the contractors, the contractors are blaming the locals and the locals are blaming the city. While everyone agrees that Dark Astoria needs change, nobody seems to agree on what that change should be.

I have power push with a single kb... I think I'm gonna 6 slot it for kb amd recharge and see what it does. Maybe put some procs in it? BLAPTROLLER MODE INITIATED

If you just want to contribute, almost anybody can do that. If you want to be certain you are contributing, blasters and scrappers only have one job that anyone is expecting them to do and it's very simple. I often struggle with worrying about contributing or worse messing things up... especially with all the endgame content that wasn't there when I played on Live. When I play a blaster I don't worry much.

The only interesting thing I've used for a ceiling is oil splats. For the problem of seeing through floor platforms: flip them upside down.

No way. Only an idiot would think he has any idea whether or not what I'm saying is true.

How did you arrive at that assumption? Do you think that if someone complains about something, it must be happening? Did you know that sometimes people complain about things that are not happening? In fact... it's what you are accusing me of right now. Is this only related to knockback in CoH or is that how you decide this generally? Is it just on topics you already have an opinion on?

Are you sure that is this thread? And when you say solutions... do you mean to the problem that I described?

So was "Might want to start with this guy lol" meant to be a joke?

A thread summary so far: Original Question: Does anyone have a simple, succinct response for someone who criticizes your use of knockback when your knockback is not causing the problems commonly associated with knockback. Majority of thread: People describing all the ways that knockback can cause problems to people who already know them. Those people describing, unsuccessfully and at great length, how to circumvent the problems. A Few Dudes: Probably not. A summary of this summary: yOu ShOuLD cHaNGe kNoCkBAck to KnoCKdoWN!

I realized I specifically said copyright and there is a high concentration of pedants on internet forums, this one being particularly infested. My post as it relates to this issue would also apply to trademark. They are different in many ways... not really in this one.

Dude is just a sucker, period. I can't stand that guy.

That's parody. It's not subtle or clever, but neither are Scary Movie or Teen Movie. Parody is an exception to legal copyright protections. Keep in mind that Homecoming policy could be more restrictive than copyright law and each GM tasked with enforcing that policy will have their own interpretations of the policy, copyright law and how those two things relate. They might also be human, so they'll come with their own biases and moods. That's why the GM in the thread can't give the OK in advance. Same way cops can't authorize you to do anything. He could be wrong... the cop after him could be wrong. Hell, both can be wrong or neither can be wrong.

Exactly. I'm completely against knockback control! In fact the solution to this problem is more knockback. Some people want to take away your knockback because someone else uses it irresponsibly!

Yeah I'm coming to the conclusion that the forum population is more representative of the playerbase than I realized. I thought this was just going to be all the cool kids... but my estimation seems off. At the very least, I have heard several interesting points throughout this thread. -The disadvantages inherent in other secondary effects was a very useful point. -The fact that even if you try to position yourself, enemies left behind are the scatter... that was something I never thought about. -Players not really noticing what other players are doing unless it bothers them is huge and worth its own thread.

Your argument has some merit, but you reach a little too far. The chance being less than 100% does mean that it will cause scatter at some point. That is fair and actually helps me because while I have faced many arguments about the mobs knockback does fling everywhere, this is the first time I have ever thought about the ones it leaves behind being a problem. I think we mostly likely just disagree on how big a problem that is compared to how many problems it solves. My teammates sometimes have issues... largely they are imagined. Typically, everything I knockback is dead or will be very soon. They are complaining about corpses flying. Maybe occasionally I knock a bad guy away from them that they would have preferred I didn't. The problem is because we are all fairly engrossed in our own play, you only noticed that. My teammates have never noticed that sometimes I solo every 3rd spawn, but they notice when their rain powers and oil slicks don't do anything. They notice a runner getting loose and making it to the squishies, but they don't notice when I choose to hang back and send the adds and the runners flying toward the tank or to their grave. In summary, when you see the scrapper's health plummeting and you blast the dude he is fighting across the room, there's a good chance he will become annoyed that he has to walk over there...

Here we go... now we're talking! People are attached to their own perspective so this is the sort of thing I was looking for. That's a very good point and might (probably won't) help someone pause before dismissing the arguments in favor of knockback.

This is definitely off topic... but you kicking someone from the team is also you deciding that your "fun" is more important. Do you believe the person with the power to kick someone from a team should decide which type of "fun" is most important?

I think it's a little strange so many are still on the "is kb good or bad" conversation... I figured that not only has it been done to death, I didn't think there would be much disagreement about it among people interested enough in the game to be here. Anti-KB argument: Knocking back enemies makes things more difficult for your team Pro-KB argument: It doesn't have to. I think the direction this thread took illustrates the problem I was originally trying to solve. There are a few posts that say the knockback must be causing problems because I'm getting complaints... To briefly address those posters... that's illogical. It's a very, very dumb thing to think or say.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

Why should we stop there! I should do "knockback only" teams... slotted for kb even better... complete chaos encouraged.

This is one of the more bizarre phenomenons on this board...

Is this post for me?