Ukase

I am not perfect. And it is fair to say I can be obtuse. But to label my success as a marketer as a problem is just silly. Why is it a problem? Because I carry a billion inf on every character, except for a few challenge characters who've yet to earn it? I see no problem with it. I see it as a successful solution to the problem the game presented me with. Problem: Not enough loot to buy what I want. Problem solved. What is it that is a problem about me having influence? How does that impact the game in any way? Because I might go postal and buy some IOs that people want to sell? I can't buy what they don't list. And I have never bought a bunch of one IO to relist it. I don't roll like that. I wouldn't appreciate that as a newer player trying to buy something, so I wouldn't do it to someone else. Further, I would offer the argument that the players with the most influence are the ones who are the most generous with it. That could be because they have it, or it could be because they're somewhat responsible for how they use it. Opinions vary, and it is quite clear my opinion is very different from yours. Give me some facts. Something I can look at, so I can better be objective. Right now, it seems like an attack because I'm successful at doing what any 6 year old could do, but many of you don't want to, so I'm a "problem".

If this is happening, it's news to me. Further, if it is happening, how would any of us know about it? We don't have access to what's going on in someone's mission, unless we're in the mission with them. So..what's the real story here? I would like to think I am only a few days to a week behind, before I learn of the latest and greatest way to milk a new strategy. Troo mentioned this as well, and where there's smoke, maybe there is some fire. If this is the case, then yes, it should be addressed, but I do not for a moment think this is why the devs are looking to add this change. Where's the evidence of that? Converter prices and numbers are stable on the market. The only real change I can see is the price of LotG 7.5% has dropped about 500k - 1M. (selling for less than 7M instead of the usual 7-8M ) And that's a good thing, I would think. People talk, word gets around, people hear things. But, this is the internet. I believe none of what I read, and only half of what I see. If this is going on, let's cite some sources. If you'd rather not state things in here, send me a dm, I'll happily back off if this is going on - to a point. I'll be wanting to know how they did it so I can suggest how to prevent it. But at the same time, I don't want to know, because I don't wish to be grouped in with the folks that are doing such things. And to be clear - I've no issue with macros. I use them all the time, when I actively play. I can't auto-fire an macro, so I wouldn't be able to do so in my afk farm. As for a bot? That's way beyond me.

Please know that I don't wish to argue, only to provide a different perspective. Sorry, but I don't see it as an issue. What does it do? Provide some players with an alternative to mainstream content. It allows players to accumulate the resources for the items they want more quickly. I don't see those as an issue. It is literally a non-event that nobody would never even know is happening if folks weren't openly sharing how they do it in an effort to be helpful. Nobody would have a clue it was going on if folks weren't looking to ride that gravy train. I don't think anyone would think there were any issues. But, since folks know about it, and it bothers some people for some reason, it's an issue. There really are no tangible negative consequences from what I see. I understand that when folks think about it, it can seem...unsavory, and insult their sensibilities a bit. But it's really no different when you're on a team and you go for a bio break while the team proceeds with the mission. You're getting rewards and doing nothing. Granted it's usually just a moment, compared to a longer term with the farmer, but where do we draw the line? It's may be slope that's more slippery than you think.

It's not a short answer, but I'll try. The problem in my mind all started with the HC devs demonstrating their power by seeding salvage. No advance warning (that I was aware of, anyway), just logged in and saw that suddenly the salvage was seeded. I'd had hundreds of rares that I'd posted in whatever range they were going for. Suddenly, the salvage is seeded and I've got to pull them all back and relist. And for me, it wasn't so much that they made the move on the salvage, but that they can do whatever they want, to hell with how it impacts any player. For a time, and it may surprise some folks - catalysts used to sell for 4-5M!! So, I would convert my reward merits to those, and sell them. I remember making 500M one morning and just having a huge rush. I think it was an endorphin high, really. A bit dangerous. I used to gamble in Vegas, and it was very much like hitting a Royal. In my mind, I knew it was fake money, but in game, it doesn't feel fake. It spends just like in the real world. But there's no way to earn any interest, so if you want the pile to grow, you can let it trickle in and just play, or you can farm and market and watch it grow exponentially. I did my level best to make sure that no matter what the HC devs did, I'd have influence. Why so much? Honestly, it's more out of a consistent routine than anything else. A routine which I've dropped some time ago, because I do think 500B is enough - enough to kit out my next 2800 or so characters without having to sweat much of anything - except incarnate materials, because I can't buy those. To get those, I used to lead the odd Master of Underground, maybe a BAF here and there. But I quickly learned that this new player base has a small percentage of players that are illiterate, or for reasons that are just too stupid to accept, play with the chat window closed. It's this small percentage of players that just sucked the fun out of the experience, so unless it's one of two sets of players, I'm not likely to participate in any iTrial, (at least, on Excelsior) And it was that small percentage that drove me into AE to get my incarnate materials. I still do the odd Magisterium and Underground. Occasionally, I'll get "stuck" doing a TPN or Keyes, two iTrials that are as stupid as they can be with their repetitive nature. (Three reactors are two too many, and that TPN is just the worst task set in any iTrial. Go in this building, go in this other building, go back to that one, etc. Just stupid. I can't believe we let the original devs get away with that trash. If it's not in pursuit of a badge, I will never do an iTrial again. It may be worth adding that I work from home, and it's an easy thing for me to tab out, move a character and get back to work. Occasionally, after a work call, I might be able to do a mission. I've had solo Yin TFs last 8 hours because of having to tab out for work. Farming is just an easy thing to do while working remotely. Back to the inf - after a year or playing, I didn't really have much, maybe a couple billion. Thing is, if I did the "buy now", a lot of my builds with my affinity for Shield Walls could easily cost me 400-500 million. I still have a list of AT/powerset combos I've not tried, and variations of powerset combos I have tried that I've yet to create. 500B is the number. Any less, and I might have to farm again - and in my mind, given the way the HC devs have a propensity to enjoy things in game that I do not, I knew days of farming are numbered. In particular afk-farming. So, to me, it would have been setting myself up for failure if I didn't make as much as I could. In a way, I feel like I was productive enough to ensure I'd have enough regardless of what the devs did - unless they deliberately targeted me specifically. Thus far, I see no reason why they would do that. I have no regrets, because it's a delight to be able to pick and choose moments when I want to team, as opposed to having that urge to get incarnate materials, and balancing that with my desire to not deal with the percentage of players that are stupid. It is also quite a joy to be able to gift a pleasant leader with a sizable donation to match what they were giving for the kill shot on Hami or the drop ship. Or to simply give some winter sets to someone else who wants to farm. (When it's my idea to gift, not theirs! I can't stand a beggar. )

Man, you really nailed it! Those devs need to roll that damn change back. I have 5 characters that I need to respec out of Rune otherwise! There really wasn't a reason to change that! And if I'd known that change was coming, I'd have bitched about it, I guarantee it!

Fair points. And a good question. For the record, you only need one computer. A very strong hamster can run ..well, anecdotally, my i7 that only recently had 16 gigs of ram could run 4, at least, without issue. Mind you, my graphics card was an Nvidia GTX 1050 (now upgraded), but Tom's Hardware showed it to be in the bottom 12% of cards out right now. So, not many resources at all are needed to run multiple accounts. And I only have 4 accounts, just for the record. Tried running all four, and my system handled it just fine, but I could not. I ended up with too many damned enhancements that needed to be crafted, converted and sold. It just took too much time. I did that for like a day and learned quick it was more work than I wanted to do. Now, I can understand why folks might be puzzled by someone like me would choose to play in such a way where I would pretend to be Scrooge McDuck and swim in my loot. In all transparency, as a player, I'm only slightly better than mediocre. I use the arrow keys to move. My reflexes are slow. I build my characters more for order than chaos. (Order is defense, chaos is dps). There's a balance, mind you. Too much defense, and you lack the dps to get out of difficult situations. Not enough, and even though the dps is high, it's not high enough to tackle some AVs without an adequate layer of mitigation. It takes practice, I think to get that balance right. Some folks have mastered it - those guys that level to 50 in the farm and suddenly do master trial runs on a character that's never been on a team before... those are the guys I'm trying to measure up to, really. So, I make sure I have all the influence I need just to keep up and feel slightly better than mediocre. Marketing is really the only part of this game I'm good at, so it makes sense to me to do that more than the other stuff. I do enjoy leveling characters up, though. There are still powersets I haven't tried, although I remain disappointed at how similar many powersets are. The icons, the effects...a lot of them seem like the same thing, just a different name. Like Broadsword and Katana. Strong similarities in those two sets. Play one, you've played the other. Sure, small differences, but for the most part the same. But, I digress. Just wanted to make the point that I do play through the game. I do not PL characters I play, at least not most of the time. There have been a few that were just too painful, like a dom or a controller. I don't team below level 50 very often, and those ATs, the way I make 'em, tend to really suck. I think the only reason I think folks are against the farming thing, as you stated, "it feels wrong" is because those that do not farm are actively seeking XP or reward merits or both, or perhaps, just a fun team to pass away an afternoon. And when you don't farm, and you (not you, the OP, but the collective you that may be reading) want to outfit your character, and you see that some asshat is selling a cyto for 300M, that probably feels really wrong. And some of "you" feel like you have to farm even though you'd rather not to afford these items. I can see where that would cause resentment towards the farmer that's already rolling in influence.

I'm not sure how many of you are readers of the Market sub-forum. The potential for these shenanigans is certainly there, but fear not, readers. Some of the more savvy marketers know how to deal with situations like that. Sure, if I wanted to, I could buy every purple in the game right now. And potentially re-list them at a price that's 12% higher. But guess what? I'm not the only marketer, and I promise you, other marketers would see that move, possibly even as it was happening, and just flood the market with purples, selling them at 10% below the previous price and I'd lose money for who knows how long? Maybe, if I have enough, I can buy up the supply the first marketer dropped in. But ultimately, I would end up with too damn many purples. It would take me months to recoup the investment, if I could recoup it at all. Generally, no shenanigans can continue forever, or rarely more than a few days. The thing with the uncommon salvage..well, they're seeded. So, someone has to pay 90-99k more than they otherwise would, no real harm in that. Just annoyance. The only way it would be kind of worth it is if you did a million sales of them. While that's possible, I can't fathom the clicking to make it possible. And even then, too many clicks for the inf you get. (for me, anyway) I do think it would be fun to have a global name next to each item for sale after it occurred, lol. That might certainly bring prices down. But that's another post for another thread.

You are misinterpreting the TOS. It specifically states 3 accounts per shard. So, technically, a player could run 15 accounts, 3 per server. I promise you, any more than 4, unless you just delete most every drop, you're gonna be too busy crafting and converting to get any real fun out of that - but fun is subjective. To me, 4 is too much work. A lot of crafting/converting going on. It's a set up for carpal tunnel for sure.

This letter...I don't really know if it addresses me or not. I mean, I haven't farmed since I learned they were not going to remove emps from AE. And prior to that episode of farming, I hadn't actively or afk-farmed in...a month or so. I just don't feel like it. I've just been playing when there are specific SG events. But I still believe that some that express themselves here are in such a different frame of mind regarding this subject, I have to ask myself if I'm being obtuse. I may very well be. The way you frame this letter, "Other changes however are targeting extreme offenders...." So, my question for you is ...what do you consider an extreme offender? And why are you using the term "offender"? To my knowledge, there is nothing against the rules about farming, afk or otherwise. So, I think this is probably the wrong word, or I'm missing something. If it is as you say, the "few AE farmers abusing exploits or other tactics" are forcing changes, then I think you must not think too highly of our HC dev team. I don't think they are specifically targeting folks who are abusing exploits. They have not stated what their reasoning is. Some suggest they want to bring the rewards for non-AE in line with AE. They seem to be doing this by offering additional reward merits for completion of various iTrials. They seem to want incarnate characters to participate in iTrials and level 50 TFs. They seem okay with folks farming if they want to, but they would prefer we did not. The only thing I can't fathom is why it matters in the first place. If they wanted to do something about folks who exploited something, first - they'd have to know it happened. And to know it happened, they'd probably know who did it. Warn, then ban. Problem solved. See, I don't view afk farming as an exploit or abuse. I view it as clever play. But, clearly, not all of you feel that way. Some of you are so vehemently opposed to the notion, you'd rather I stopped breathing and quit the game altogether. It's all good. I have felt that way about some folks I've run into in game, which is really why I spent a lot more time farming than playing. Some of our player base are truly mean-spirited and grossly immature. Overall, a nice enough bunch, but some truly mean people in the midst. I no longer care what they do. I'll do what I want to do, and with the network I do have, determine my best path with the information I have. Just know that I'm not motivated by rewards. I'm motivated by the path of least resistance. I just think the whole debate is getting tiresome and it's long past time for the HC devs to state what's on their mind with this change. What their goal is and why they think is necessary to implement it. We have a lot of clever people here that might have a better solution, if they specifically state the problem. I know some have mentioned reward/time metric, but I just don't think that's it. I think the idea of someone like me farming a character to vl 45 to get 250 emp merits and then using them to get 7500 converters is the issue. They want the converters to be priced higher, for whatever reason. Not sure what price they have in mind, probably a lot more than they are now. And that's just conjecture on my part, but I do know that there aren't enough merits to feed me and everyone else on the AH if I'm farming. I just burn through too many in a day. That's really the only reason I started to do it. I looked to get some, and I was..there's only 4400 on the AH? I need 10X that! ( I don't like buying them in bits and pieces. If I have room for 180 bids, each one will go for 10 converters at a reasonable price.) I had to spend about 30 minutes opening winter packs just to get the reward merits. Thankfully, they're going to leave THAT conversion alone. For now, anyway. I know they have expressed concerns about afk farming in the past, as Flea was kind enough to use his might search-fu to find that post. And that could be it...a sentiment from over 2 years ago. I would just appreciate some confirmation from the powers that be. Not speculation by other players.

You say it's not playing the game. I say it is playing the game, just not the way you play it perhaps. So, I've proven long ago that I have a computer I can keep connected and can passively (and actively) inflate my wealth. What's wrong with that?

"when there's an outlier that can cause a problem".... Where's the problem, tho? Let us say that there is indeed a reward/time advantage for AE farming. Why is that a problem? What is the problem with that? Nobody is being forced to do this if they don't want to, but everyone can farm if they want to. So, there's no disadvantage to anyone. I just don't see that it's an issue. So what if Farmers get paid more than non-farmers. It's irrelevant. The folks that don't farm because they don't want to shouldn't care, because they don't want to farm. And that's fine. But to punish farmers because they don't want to is not fine. A rising tide elevates all the boats. So, increase the rewards of non-AE content to rival farmers. (However that's determined is beyond me.) If we punish the farmers because they make more for doing less, what about the marketers? We make more than farmers doing even less! We don't kill a damn thing, but time, and get exponentially more! Are you going to then remove the auction house? Only allow folks to buy one item per day? Or only allow folks to sell 10 items a day? Where does this line get drawn in the concrete? (as opposed to sand) In some ways, I look at this like the government trying to take away my hunting rifle because it's a gun, and a gun in the wrong hands can hurt people. You want to erode my rights for no other purpose than you don't want to hunt, and perhaps you're worried my rifle would be used in some random school simply because I have one. I see no reason why farming hurts the game in any measurable way. I see no reason why farmers making influence more easily than non-farmers is an issue. If only certain people could farm, yeah, I'd say there's a big problem. But everyone can! Yes, I can see how players might feel slighted because one player has more resources than another. But that's not the fault of the richer player. It's the fault of the poorer player for not taking advantage of the knowledge, skills and abilities they have. Now, if they have no desire to farm, as I said, that's fine. They can still make plenty of influence just by using the drops they get in game. Farmers are gonna farm, and no rules (except a no-farming rule) are going to change that. I think you're not going to get what you expect by getting what you want. I could be wrong, though. I've been wrong before. But, given enough time, the players will come up with the next big thing, and then the people will cry aloud once more, "it's not fair!". It is fair. It hurts nothing that I can see. You can't say "if they weren't farming, they'd be teaming". This is not a fact. It's conjecture. And making a change on conjecture is not wise. Increase the rewards, and the folks that farm for rewards will go. The folks that farm for fun will not. The folks that cannot farm due to changes (or will not) will likely find something else to do. You may see that as a benefit. More names to get. If that's your position, I can understand that, at least. But if I just play the game, I'll keep my names anyway. But to go about saying farming is hurting your characters somehow...that's nonsense in my mind. I don't see how. Maybe you guys are just wanting to drive away all the farmers with some noble intent of having the game "pure", so you can be totally immersed in your characters without a care in the world, no idle chatter about "lowbie dominator looking for AE cuz I don't have perma-dom" to intrude on your finer sensibilities. I have no idea where some of you are coming from.

How about they wait until they do that, then change things?

If you review that post you quoted, I was talking of the play of the afk character between missions. The crafting, converting, etc. That's the play I speak of.

Damn it! Higher prices means I would make even MORE influence! I've got thousands of these babies sitting around just waiting for me to use them! If prices go up, I can maybe make a trillion! In all seriousness, the 100 reward merits for a winter-O or a purple recipe (that you have to craft, what a rip-off) is roughly equal to 300 converters, or 21M inf. I can't see prices going much higher than that for either of those items. The superior winters, involve the slotting, adding a catalyst and then unslotting and then posting for sale. The catalyst drop fairly often, but if you're in a rush, you can get one for less than 2m. So, why those sell for more than 25M is because most folks are unknowing, or just lazy and impatient. If I thought for a minute that this change would elevate the price of purples to 30M...heh, I'd be doing everything I could to get it passed.

And I respect your opinion - and you. I don't recall you ever posting anything I thought was outright stupid (and I can't say the same thing for myself, lol ). So, one can read that and ask if one part of the game gives better rewards over time, why does that necessitate change? There's always going to be something that gives more rewards/time. A couple of years ago, we used to zerg hami, before they capped the zone to 50. And there was an adjustment by the devs to cap the zone to inhibit this. But, oddly, the only difference now is that fewer people are getting the same rewards for the same effort. We still zerg hami, only we do it with 50 instead of 100-200 players. How was that an improvement, making the game better? It simply penalized the 50-150 players that couldn't get in the zone. It did slow things down a bit, as fewer players meant slightly longer GM hunts. Other than that, perhaps a slightly higher amount of risk, but it's still a given that it will succeed. Where is the outcry from the farmers about this? Getting 120 reward merits in 20-30 minutes...it's not fair, and something should be done! Yeah, I'm being a touch sarcastic there. But the point remains. There will always be something that rewards more. Another thing that folks seem to be forgetting is that afk-farming is a method of play. Some folks that have never afk-farmed really have no idea what goes on between missions. And that is the part I would miss the most. Not so much raking in the influence; I've got plenty of that. But the (Lord forgive me for using the stupid, trite, over-used word) meta game is the attraction for me. Taking a resource that almost nobody wants, adding value to it, and making it something most folks want. Now, I'll still be able to do this, even if AE would be removed entirely, but then I'd have to do the tedious stuff of typing in names of salvage which takes away from the enjoyment. Folks seem to think it's just as simple as plopping in the middle of a map and setting burn to auto and returning when convenient. Sometimes, it's that simple. But not always. Sometimes, particularly when you're just starting out, you lose a lot of time and get very little or nothing. You thought your character was solid, got that build from some unknown player on the forums, and find out it sucked. Or at least, it wasn't good enough. Or you tried to sub a couple of the winter sets for some cheaper sets because you couldn't afford them and found your character lacking. There's a lot of growing pains for the beginning farmer. These new AoE changes will only add to that. The HC flavor of CoH has always been about options. I think, if it is true that AFK has a clear time/reward advantage, then the ruffian in me says, "so? Make one and get back to playing". The more sympathetic side of me says, "Okay, so boost the non-AE rewards to equal the afk metric. How hard can it be?" Far better to lead with a carrot than to push with a stick.

I think this is pretty much genius.

Sorry, he's posted multiple times in there, and I've already read his opinions. I disagree with them. I do not see how these changes make things better for everyone. I don't see how these changes make the game better. It's clear that we're not all going to agree on how things should be done. If a thread goes 16 pages, yeah, it's clear there's some debating going on. And healthy debate is good, but Dale Carnegie taught me, "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion, still." So, I will not try any further to convince anyone of anything. I'm just expressing my views which are - before I can get behind any change, I want to know why the change is proposed. Barring that, I can't get behind it.

With my multiple accounts, there was a period where I would farm with three while I played typical content - DFB, Posi, the Faultline, Striga and Croatoa arcs, an MSR or two, Tina Mac and Maria Jenkins. For the past year, I'd pretty much stopped farming, just playing one of the accounts with normal content. No other players were harmed in the farming. No small children were neglected or abused. The only result was I was able to give away more influence to folks I deemed worthy. Some I just gave away the 3 standard PvP IOs to - glad armor 3%, Shield Wall 5%, Panacea +HP/End. Some I gave away hero packs to, some winter packs. Several folks got an entire builds worth of IOs because having done it so many times before, it's faster and easier for me to come up with the IOs needed, and cheaper too, because of my experience in changing trash into gold. Some of you seem to take exception to this idea of "no risk" in a fire farm. There is risk. Some of us have just learned to mitigate risk better than others. I don't see the harm. You could do it if you wanted to, but you don't, and for some inexplicable reason, because you don't want to, nobody else should do it either? Someone shovel that in a garden.

Discounting the new Aeon SF and some of the other level 50 TFs, just about every story arc in the game, radios....they are all mindless button mashing. Before I learned to get a couple of the accolades on redside, I used to clobber the freak bosses on Unai Kemen's Dreck map. I did that afk, too. Just about everything can be done afk in this game. (with the proper build) The difference is I have to manually move my character to the next group. What's the difference? We get punished because the AE mission creators were clever? Ultimately, it doesn't really matter that much to me. It just tears me up that you see it as "fundamentally wrong" when there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it. It hurts nobody. (as far as I can tell) It's like working a commission only sales job. I sell more, I make more. I sell less, I make less. If I make more, it doesn't impact how much you make. If I make less, it doesn't impact how much you make. So why is everyone so concerned with how much I make and how fast I make it? It has no impact on your life at all. Am I supposed to slow down for everyone? Am I supposed to stop afk farming and do what? I'm already playing my primary character. There's no harm in it. I have big stacks of inf. So? Doesn't hurt you. Could even help you if you ask nicely. I just don't see how it's so "wrong". If it's a crime, it's victimless. The main reason I have so much influence is because I don't have to buy anything. I slave away over the crafting table, crafting and converting every recipe that's uncommon, rare or very rare. Just like everyone else, salvage drops in my missions. Like everyone else, recipes drop. I use my converters, I don't sell them. So I have a lot of inf. I market well. I buy pvp recipes at 1.5 to 2.2M and craft, convert and sell for 8M. I buy hero and winter packs. I take the enhancements, catalyze 'em and sell 'em. Nothing that everyone else can't do. There is no advantage that I have. I just do the work. That's fundamentally wrong? I don't think so. I add value. I do understand that the original devs datamined the average time it took to complete various TFs and awarded reward merits based on those metrics. And there is room to argue about an afk farmer getting emp merits, which convert to reward merits at a decent clip. Thing is - unless you afk farm, you have no idea how slow it is! I get maybe a vet level and a half per night, and that's if the rng has the patrols seeing my character as they wonder about that dreaded cave map. Sometimes I might only get two bars. (A lot depends on the map you use) So how is it wrong? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Maybe there are some maps there where you can go afk and get three vet levels in an hour. I'd like to think I'd have heard about them, but I haven't. I promise you, if you're actively teaming, you're getting more xp than my afk-farmer. I know this because I let a couple of beggars in my farm and they quit after a couple of minutes, lol. I tried to tell 'em. So, if you're getting more xp than I am - what's so awful about it?

You're probably right. And, just the way you've phrased that helps me wrap my head around everything a bit better. (I am subject to being obtuse, in case you were unaware)

I know you're joking. I'm sure I've irritated a couple of them with my lack of a filter in various posts, but overall, the devs have shown me nothing but kindness and consideration. But, to be fair, they DID turn me into a trash can during a hami raid. They OWE me some kindness.

You may be too young...but there was a film I saw in my formative years, starring John Wayne. Not John Wayne Bobbit - that gent is famous for something entirely different. But John Wayne, up until his death was considered to be a man's man, someone to be admired and looked up to. In the list of folks a young boy my age would want to be if he had the ability to morph into someone else, Spider Man, Superman, Thor, Captain Marvel and John Wayne would have made that short list. And watching one of his movies, this attractive woman asks him to dance. He says, "I don't dance. I don't trust men who do and I don't trust women who don't." Of course, now that I'm older, I'm not so sure what was so brilliant about it, but back then...that got me through Prom without having to dance once, and got me and my date into the back seat of my Dad's Cadillac that much sooner. So, uh, no to any kind of dance off. I worked too hard for that 500B to just give it away in such a frivolous fashion. Especially now since the HC devs seem to be conspiring to prevent my earning of such a sum in the future. No, I believe I'll hoard my goods. In fact, do you recall when they seeded the salvage? THAT was the point where I realized things could change in a moment with these HC devs! That was the sole motivation behind my building the farmer in the first place! Because I felt like I'd better make the inf while I could, because they could change things in a flash. And now that I think of it, with my 1000+ purples stashed in a couple of bases...I wonder what impact this change will have on those purples...fewer afk farms would mean fewer purples...Me thinks it may be time to bid low on certain recipes...

I disagree that the policy would be difficult to enforce is the issue. If it were, we would already have an issue with folks violating the 3 accounts per shard at one time rule. As far as I know, we don't have that issue. I mean, it's pretty clear. They catch you once, they warn you. They catch you twice, they ban you. So, the egregious afk farmers are likely filtered out by now. I have only seen 3 instances of this in the past 3 years. They were reported by me (except one, which was reported by someone else I know, as they pointed it out to me). Haven't seen either of them on since. If what you say is true, that this is an attempt to inhibit AFK-farming, why don't they just say so? I'm left wondering why it's such a bad thing. Stress on the servers? Sure. But so is active farming. I suspect your random team just doing missions in AE is also a stress, as are the MSRs and the Hami Raids. I can't believe that the stress on the equipment is behind it, because thus far, the servers don't shut down because of too many farmers. They seem to be incredibly stable, except for Excelsior lately. And I imagine those that farm did not move their characters to Excelsior to farm. For me, it's been the opposite. My farmers are on Indomitable. (although I have some farmers on Excelsior, they only do specific tasks, like help a lowbie get vamps and wolves.) I wish I could find the post where Jimmy the GM stated something positive about farmers, but concern about the AFK farmer, but I can't find it to determine what the concern was. I want to say it's about risk vs. reward. Fair enough, I guess. I would still appreciate the HC devs sharing the specifics of their reasoning. It's hard to get behind a change just for the sake of change and be left guessing as to why.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is how afk-farmers are stalling this "better game later". How does my afk-farming prevent the game from being better later? I thought I was doing a pretty good job of making the game better right now, by tediously crafting various IOs that the player base must want, because they certainly buy them all in almost an instant. If we all stop doing this, how much will they cost your average player later? More? I would think so. Certainly not less. And when you say "better", better for who? If I have all the resources I need to create and play my next 800 characters, then I don't think more reward merits are going to prod my play in any direction. I will do what I feel like, in that moment, whether it be an iTrial, a speed Kahn or a solo DiB. Or an afk farm outside of AE. But I'm just one guy, and I certainly don't expect decisions made to revolve around me. As much as I might enjoy that, it wouldn't do much good for those who lack the resources I already have. I'm just asking, not trying to be rude, nor discount your view - better for who? and how would it be better?

I can't believe I missed this topic. (until now) So, I have to step out of this and look at it from a different perspective. Personally, I do not see how the current emp to reward merit conversion is hurting anyone. If I put 2 and 2 together and maybe I get 4, maybe I get 22. I'm just not sure what our HC devs are after. It seems to be they do not want the afk farmer to recycle their brutes every 24-48 vet levels and use those emps to get reward merits to then get converters or boosters, or whatever it is they get with them. That seems to be what they want to prevent. But who knows? Our HC devs seem to want to keep this something to discuss rather than just state it. So what are the negative impacts from a farmer using emp merits to get reward merits? Is it because it's easy for them to do and other than the build, doesn't require much effort? What is it they want from the afk farmer? To stop using the server resources? All they have to do is say so, and set a policy of "no afk-farming if the server load is greater than 250" or some arbitrary figure. I don't think they need to discourage play by folks who use those emp merits that they get from running content that's outside of farms. I do think that the afk farmer that is in the habit of recycling their character (for those that don't know, I do this. On my farm account, I will level a farmer to vet level 48, because at that point, the emps diminish to 10 emps at vet level 51. And another 10 at VL 54. Six vet levels for 20 emps? I can pl another character to 50 and then vet level 3 for 20 emps faster than I can PL for 6 vet levels. So, that's the reason behind recycling them. I would often run two accounts, while I played on a third. The two accounts would take the emp merits and convert them to reward merits and then get converters. This allowed me to list IOs for sale more cheaply. Take this away, and you essentially add 70k (for one converter) times 30 (number of converters on average used) to the cost of the better IOs, depending on the RNG. I guess I'm not sure why passing on these savings is bad for the game. Maybe the other farmers are upset because they don't want to respec twice after the vet level 48 is reached. Those 280 emp merits, which become 2800 reward merits, which become 8400 converters. Any idea how long it takes to go through 8400 converters? Longer than most want to spend. I usually use half of them on the drops that the farmer got, and the rest are sent to my primary account so they can avoid buying converters. If the change goes through, It will save me some time. I won't be farming on the alt accounts. I'll just make marketers out of them, or do nothing with them, except stash more inf in their email. But how does this change impact other folks who haven't been as industrious? How are they going to cope with having to essentially farm to get the resources they need? Is that what our HC devs want? They want our casual player to farm more? Because I think that's where this is heading. It could be the additional merit rewards for iTrials and such might prevent that, so that's a positive step. I just don't know if it's enough. I simply suggest our HC devs state clearly what they're after. Then we can try to intelligently discuss how to get there from here.