battlewraith

Why you calling it an echo if the original was never destroyed. Riddle me that!

You have not shown me good will. I’m just pointing that out. I have many stances you don’t agree with. I have not, AFAIR, suggested to anyone that they leave.

This thread: ”People shouldn’t be so pedantic.” ”Stop controlling what I’m allowed to say!” That thread: ”I propose an echo version of Founder’s Falls.” ”People use Founders Falls all the time, don’t mess it up.” Lol.

You’re one of the posters who has given me the “maybe this just isn’t your game” line. So pardon my skepticism about the good will comment. You’re also elaborating on how people should view their ideas and how excitement is problematic with regard to being “clever” and/or efficient. You’re doing the exact same thing as the OP except in line with your own priorities.

Everyone here has an interest in this control, even you. To understand this, simply imagine these forums with no moderators at all. People are framing this like it’s a bunch of soft ass people that can’t take criticism crying for mods to protect them from meanies. It’s not. It’s more like this: people get excited about ideas, so they go to make a suggestion. Some crusty village elder crawls out of the woodwork and says “Ooooooooh if you had only searched the forums for the faultline donut shop flame war from 2006 you would understand how we beat this dead horse because it didn’t fit with the lore!!!” It’s not a struggle for control. It’s about the spiritual life of the forums. And the fact that those sick Cheap Trick roasts have been stale for decades lol.

The OP started the thread in response to people stifling conversations in the suggestions forum. What followed was a reframing of the discussion in terms of censorship and what people were permitted to say. Now, you have people dropping in, declaring that it's unproductive, and requesting that it be locked. The irony and double standards present here are something you seldom see outside of government. If you don't understand why a thread like this starts, pay attention to how it ends. That shows you all you need to know.

I dunno. A lot of artists and artist communities are circling the wagons--they won't share a space with AI content. It would be like sharing space with an abuser.

I got back into doing art in 2004 because of this game. The art community used to do competitions, art tutorials, giveaways, lots of stuff. Sad to see what it's become.

If you don't want to talk, why you here mang? Also, I am permitted to ask questions no?

It's pretty easy to illustrate the object of the criticism with a hypothetical. Just imagine you had a small group of people, maybe 8 people, that voiced this boilerplate concern about dev time on every single suggestion. Every time you started reading one, you're wading through this stuff. And if players called them out on it, they would repeat this mantra--"hey this is a legitimate concern and I am permitted to post it." My gut tells me that some of the people clutching their pearls here would change their tune pretty quickly. They would be looking to the mods to do something. Or maybe not, maybe they would try to ignore these people. But the damage would be done. It would not be a cool hangout. Normal people without an axe to grind would not spend much time in that subforum. I think the actual reality is not much different. The threads you typically see are narrow in scope, practical, and mundane. One that goes over will might have 20 replies--in a game that has hundreds of thousands of players. Threads that want something substantial or different or just even something hilariously stupid get the feasibility treatment. They are torn down by the hobgoblin of little minds. It has the joy of a hallway at the DMV. Now with a framed picture of Rudra on the wall. It's not uncommon to hear people joke about suggestions being a wasteland and I think some people will try to get things going in general discussion instead.

Actually people care , otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion. And there wouldn't be a history of similar discussions. It is stupid because people are conflating what you are permitted to do with how you should behave. Of course people can disagree with how you should behave--but they at least could make a case for why a standard of behavior is preferrable. Instead, they clutch their pearls and act like they're being oppressed and silenced because they're getting pushback over something they are permitted to do.

It spoke volumes.

Ok so you made it look like one of those old person cell phones from the drug store with oversized text. Then you went back and circled those bits in red. LOL!

It would be hilarious is a bunch of Dark Swan's imps jumped out of it, kind of like gangwar.

Describing the universe as "in" a black hole is misleading. The black hole is more properly understood as an event that caused our universe (space-time manifold) to expand into existence. I believe it hypothetically answers three questions: 1. What caused or preceded the Big Bang. 2. Why was there low entropy at the start of the universe. 3. Why is there an observable spin to galaxies (ie they seem to inexplicably be spinning in the same direction). This would be explained by the spin of a black hole being passed on.

I notice when you make these little digs, you tend to leave punctuation off at the end. Is it because you're all "woooooooo I'm so caught up in the moment!" or something? LOL.

I think so too. I think there should be a place where people can make grand, pie-in-the-sky proposals without having to answer to people's objections over practicality or whatever. Ideation often starts with just spitballing weird ideas and that's probably the funnest phase. As opposed to somebody wanting a very modest yet thorough proposal for something is both doable and attractive to whoever happens to be paying attention at the moment. It's sad that it would have to a single post, no reply sort of thing, but if that's the only way so be it.

You're missing the point. It's not about the devs or how long it takes them to implement an idea. It's the fact that you have armchair developers beating suggestions like they owe them money and posturing like it really matters, probably turning people off to the forums in the process. That's pretty silly in light of how things are actually working.

If you have a situation where 99% of the suggestions will fail and the ones that don't take years to implement--what is the purpose of the forum? Does the benefit it brings to the development team outweigh the aggravation of people who think they might be heard but instead get thrown into the feasibility shredder?

Duuuude are you talking about the changeling thing? That thing you were ranting about on the Kheldian forums and demanded that some of these unpaid devs get canned over? Where you insinuated that some players in shadowy circles were keeping the matter from being dealt with. This issue haunts you to the point of raw fury, but you have zero empathy for the concerns of other people. Remember--we are not punished for our anger. We are punished by our anger. I'm also winking because I heard that's a cool thing to do 😉

Thanks for digging that up, I do appreciate your efforts. This example is someone calling for a tweak to an existing power from one powerset. The replies were all basically in agreement. Four years later, the devs make this change. Is the assumption that the devs read this post, liked the idea, and then put it on a to-do list that they got to four years later? If that is the case, isn't it kind of significant that that is the turnaround rate for something that is a tweak of an existing feature? The guy that made the initial post, Disruptor, last visited in July of 2023. So unless they are playing on another account, they didn't even see the change. So for me this goes back to the complaint about this subforum. You're hitting the lottery if a "good" suggestion gets noticed, then there is a considerable wait for anything to happen. So why then is there this entrenched expectation that people need to submit a dissertation to other players who have no real say on the matter anyway? If you renamed it "speculative pvp" or something at least people dropping in for the first time would know what to expect and understand why people post there.

The fact that this discussion has happened many times over the years ,raised by different people, is indicative of an unresolved issue. And the stance that people are complainers that need to go away, will entail that it keeps happening.

Because you cared enough to post the idea in the first place? What's the emotional investment in shooting down people's ideas? Fear that the devs will mistakenly pick up a bad idea and run with it? Lemme try to illustrate the problem of orthodoxy with an anecdote: Beginning in the early 2000s there was a website called conceptart.org. This was a site founded by a bunch of artists who were working primarily in the videogame industry but also in things like fantasy illustration. This site was hugely impactful because these people, who were top tier artists, were sharing industry practices as well as teaching techniques and critiquing people's work. This was stuff that people would've needed to pay to learn at an art program or maybe learn through interning at a studio or something. So this site drew a huge audience of people interested in that kind of art and the site expanded. You then had various forums for different things, moderation policies, etc. And then you had the forum regulars, who generally speaking were struggling to improve their art and connect with other people like themselves. And one way to try to master artistic principles like perspective, anatomy, etc. is the critique those things in the work of others. So that was a bread and butter type of participation. One day, somebody shows up in one of the subforums and posts pages of a comic strip that were done by taking pictures of Barbie dolls posed in different little sets, outfits, etc. Of course it was a shitshow. People were incredulous. They mocked it and eventually someone said that it didn't really belong there on the forums. Then Jon Foster showed up and dropped the hammer on these people. Jon Foster is an acclaimed, top tier professional illustrator. He said that "if this work is not appropriate for the forums, I probably don't belong here either." Why? Because he is someone who has mastered anatomy, perspective, etc. is no longer a slave to it and is always looking for some indication of where to move next. And they will look at someone's expression to see if it holds some inspiration--even if it's a story told through posed Barbie dolls. The regulars to whom he responded were so fixated on the quantifiable that they lost the overall plot. I think the situation is analogous here.

The wink emoji is the secret sauce?😉