Profit

If the tanker is using their T1 power, which they are probably not due to how fast mobs die at IO/Incarnate levels.

It's not about being an elitist. Tanking is about taking hits and battlefield control. Tanks get 3 forms of battlefield control versus the brutes 2 forms. Ergo, tankers are better than brutes at the job.

I thought it did work? I've been told Hami was wormholed in the lady grey, but it was due to eating a tray of yellows. I'll need to get in game and test on lvl 54 bosses, see if it's an acc issue.

@Galaxy Brain the blaster tweaks were nice, if not wholly inventive. They basically gave every blaster an aura at the same spot that mostly shares from the same set of effects. I would like to see set specific tweaks for tankers that are not only thematic to the set in question, but unique from the other sets. Basically, I don't want them homogenized at all. I do feel though that set specific tweaks should not happen until the AT as a whole has been tweaked. Because if you set out to just tweak sets one by one, you still have the problems I've laid out in the original post across some of the sets, but fixed it for other sets. So overall AT first, followed by set by set evaluation second.

@Jeuraud They are second class tanks. A brute who takes taunt is foolish because the actual taunt power does not help build fury, you build fury by attacking and being attacked, which with the brute AOEs and the instant 400% taunt magnitude those AOEs provide to critters hit will generally put a brute at aggro cap without every clicking the taunt power. Your opinions are those of someone who doesn't main a tank day in and day out. I get it, I've been having this argument for 15 years. But changing tanks to what the general populace thinks they 'should' be and destroying a playstyle some enjoy in the process, while brutes exist which is what the general populace want any way, is foolhardy and stupid. @Haijinx You are correct, but they did help free up a few slots that can be used to spice other powers. @Leogunner I'm saying that objectively. You said 'had their own weekly event' when it should be 'have their own weekly event'. And then event didn't die for tanker players when city shuttered, it moved to champion, was on dcuo briefly. But it has continued these past 7 years, every week. Tankers getting together and crushing stuff. I would like you to redact your discussions with people online statement. In the quote of Jeurauds I have in the post you quoted, he literally said 'You know what the no-brainer for me is.... that Tanks are fricken boring to play,' so no, I did not put words in his mouth. He literally said he finds tanks boring to play, and part of playing is strategy. As far as why you should buy my suggestions. The bulk of suggestions in this thread are made with the misunderstanding of just how powerful tankers are. Many of these suggestions would push tankers into the realm omgwtfbbqoverpowered and people don't even realize. My suggestions are meant to incrementally raise tankers until there is a harmony with tankers/brutes/scrappers/stalkers where nobodies toes are being stepped on and each AT is unique in it's own right. Do I have other ideas and suggestions? Oh yeah, I have powerset specific ideas, but you can delve into powersets until the overall AT is worked on. So no, my suggestions may not do anything for your 'concept/immersion' right now, but continuing down the development path would. In essence, your missing the forest for the trees. edited to add @Leogunner the event also came back home and started back up here on May 8th.

That's a nice way to handle it.

Inorite! I had a scrapper in beta and all the way up to day I made my tanker, and I just couldn't get into the scrapper. But oh boy I clicked with that tanker. Never looked back.

Just making sure everyone understands what taunts are what for tanks. Most people think the only taunt effect tanks get on attacks is just gauntlet. The reason it's important that everyone understands, is that Brutes enjoy 2/3s of those taunt effects with no changes what so ever.

Just because tanks are boring to you do not mean they are boring to others. I hate that the strategy and idea of tanks as they are currently are boring to you. But they aren't to me and many others, so no making them interesting to just you and you alone is at the bottom of my priorities. Just so you know, the only problem tanks had in beta was a single target taunt click power (which scrappers also shared) that forced many tanks into taking provoke, the Devs then decided to change it to an autohit power in the tanker powerset. And no, I don't need to get over it. You don't have a dog in this, I'm advocating for thought out changes that will make tanks more desirable to people that want to actually play tankers instead of trying to shoehorn tankers into what ever they want.

There are three separate taunt effects that tankers can enjoy. 1. There is a single target auto hit taunt effect applied everytime a tank attacks and hits. This is at 400% taunt magnitude. 2. There is Gauntlet, which is an AOE taunt effect that requires a to-hit roll. This to-hit roll happens once a tank attacks and hits something. 3. There is the Taunt click power in the Tanker secondary, which is an auto-hit power effecting up to 5 targets. Brutes enjoy the effects of 1 and 3, but they do not get 2.

Brain, Tankers also have an additional taunt attached to their attacks besides Gauntlet. This additional taunt is auto-hit, single target, and is at a 400% taunt mag.

I can't actually see your picture, it's just a white box for me. But I did not reference the actual auto hit Taunt click power that is also enjoyed by brutes. I was referencing a specific taunt application that both brutes and tanks apply on their attacks. That reference was not to Gauntlet, which is a separate taunt mechanic that is also applied to tanker attacks. edit:Well that's annoying, your picture finally showed up when I went to edit a spelling error.

Your suggestions aren't bad, but do have some holes. T1 attacks are almost never used in io/incarnate levels due to having a very solid attack chain. That means almost no one is actively using Bruising. Also, with the way io/incarnate mobs melt from the dps aoes, there is almost no time to throw a bruising on anything significant. The AOE Taunt you speak of is gauntlet. Currently Brutes and Tanks enjoy an auto hit single target taunt attached to every attack roll made at 400% taunt mag. Gauntlet (The AOE Taunt) attached to tank attacks only fires if the tank lands the attack, and even then gauntlet makes it's on to-hit roll and can miss. Gauntlet is in addition to the 400% auto hit taunt mag both brutes and tanks enjoy. Allowing stacking gauntlet is good for me, but it has to be decoupled from the T1 and rolled into gauntlet while at the same time removing the to-hit check from gauntlet.

If you're not convinced that at IO/Incarnate Levels a brute is more desirable to have on a team than a tank, then you will never be convinced. As for strong arguments, I made strong arguments in the OP for very specific scalpel changes that would not drastically change the AT. As for informed voices, I made my first tank on 2004-09-17. He is my main, even now and the first character I log in everyday. I would say my voice is as informed as any.

I'm not sure which post you are referencing, are you talking about the grant cover like powers post?

Just FYI, the only mmo I've ever played (re more than a day or two after COH shut down) was COH. I played exactly one mud. So The only real reference I have for tanking honestly is here because I was a striker in the mud I was in. I am not trying to get the feel of a trinity tank in this environment despite what you think you read into my words. The conundrum here is that once IOs and incarnates are involved the clear choice is to take a brute over a tank every time. This is an effort to make changes that will effect the IO level of power without effecting the SO level of power because at that level brutes and tanks are balanced together and there is a choice to be made at SO level. And furthermore, I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I am not trying to turn COH into a classic Trinity MMO. I am simply trying to make the decision between brute and tanks at IO levels a hard one instead of a no brainer. So no, you do not have a dog in this fight.

As I made the OP I am aware. I have at times even made the argument that tankers and brutes are flip sides of the same coinc with one being a team tank (tankers) and one being a selfish tank (brutes). Perhaps at this point, 17 pages in, everyone should go back and reread the OP because I noticed at page 14 most people seem to be arriving at variations or exact copies of the changes I suggested on page 1.

Broken and unfun are opinions and not reasons to have things changed because not everyone shares your oninion. The trinity tanker doesn't survive in this game play. But I contend that our tankers do not play like trinity tankers. As I also played on muds etc I completely understand what your getting at but I do believe your premise is flawed. We have a different breed of tanker here and you are focused only on the taunt aspect of their gameplay. And to verify, again from the original post, Tankers and Brutes are completely balanced when only SOs are taken into account. It is IO incarnate gameplay where we have a conundrum, and any changes that are suggested or considered should not change the balance at SO level in any appreciable level. To many suggestions in this thread do not consider the SO power level balance field. I still contend you would probably be much happier taking your tanks and rerolling them as brutes instead of trying to change the tanker AT so you are happier with it.

As this primarily effects def based sets, let's look at exactly what it does to shield defense. I loaded a shield def into mids to get some numbers. This is everything I slotted. Level 49 Magic Tanker Primary Power Set: Shield Defense Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Hero Profile: ------------ Level 1: Deflection (A) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure (3) Defense Buff (3) Defense Buff (5) Defense Buff (13) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure (13) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure Level 1: Jab (A) Empty Level 2: Battle Agility (A) Endurance Reduction (5) Defense Buff (7) Defense Buff (7) Defense Buff Level 4: True Grit (A) Resist Damage (9) Resist Damage (9) Resist Damage Level 6: Active Defense (A) Recharge Reduction (11) Recharge Reduction (11) Recharge Reduction Level 8: [Empty] Level 10: [Empty] Level 12: Phalanx Fighting (A) Defense Buff (15) Defense Buff (15) Defense Buff Level 14: [Empty] Level 16: [Empty] Level 18: [Empty] Level 20: [Empty] Level 22: [Empty] Level 24: [Empty] Level 26: [Empty] Level 28: Rage (A) Empty Note that I have used SO level enhancements (with a bit of cheating with the Ribos so I could get the res numbers as well). This slotting gives us, 42.4% def to Melee/Ranged/AOE (assuming 3 people for phalanx fighting) 23.4% res to S/L/F/C/E/N Now those aren't bad numbers, but when Rage wears off it gives a -20% def to all for 10 seconds. That Lowers the def to 22.4% for melee/ranged/aoe. The def without phalanx fighting is, 23.4% to Melee/Ranged/AOE. So the Rage crash is completely negating one entire power plus change. We shouldn't massively change one power based one outlying powerset however, a small adjust could be very beneficial. Why don't we simply make the def debuff resistable. All the tank sets have debuff resistance, the reasoning for the debuff is that you're exhausted and unable to dodge attacks. But if it's resistable, you are literally fighting through your exhaustion to keep fighting, and we see that in comics all the time. It would be thematic. Additionally we could tie in the damage debuff to the resist and make it so as the debuff is resisted you regain more damage back quicker. Also thematic, and plays into the narrative the through sheer force of will the tanker can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop... ever, until you are arrested!

I'm sad that you are unable to see the battlefield control strategies a tanker can employ and believe all the work is being done by taunt. This gameplay is fun for me, and it doesn't make it wrong because you don't find it fun. It sounds like you don't really have a dog in this fight and would be happier playing a brute. As the OP asked for absolutely nothing to change on the brute AT then why bother posting in the thread? If there changse advocated for to the brute AT then yes I could see wanting to get your opinion in here, but there weren't.

Yes, you would create a Cursors folder if you don't have it.

Feel free to join us on the discord as well. Lots of night owls running around there. https://discord.gg/8FmTPyc It was really late the other night, I'm surprised I thought to put the global in channel in there lol. See I missed the discord though.

Excelsior has some really good Aussie players. Would probably fit your schedule very well. Be sure to /chanjoin Excelsior 🙂

I found my error. This should do it. /bind 1 "+down$$powexec_name Brawl$$powexec_name Apprentice Charm" http://mycoh.wikidot.com/advanced-bind-guide Search for "Toggle Keys"

@Jeuraud that bind activates one power on key press down and one power on the up swing omg the key press. No it does not activate two powers at once, they are in succession but bound to one key. edited to add that it may need two ++ at the beginning