justicebeliever

Changing the in-game account is super easy - Log into the forums with your forum account and go here - https://forums.homecomingservers.com/account/ No need to remember your old password or pesky resets

We should totally take down GM_Jimmy, or maybe GM_Widower.... Wait...Ah, not that kind of GM...My bad...

I am not asking for each and every transaction that goes on every day. What I am asking is that they keep their promise to update us as they originally promised. Each thing that has been done lessens my trust in the team running this server. You are trying to make something legal while doing something illegal. I don’t want this to be run by NCSoft again and it appears that is exactly where it is headed. I have said my piece. No point arguing with those who can’t see the whole picture. It’s disingenuous for you to claim others aren’t seeing the whole picture if you yourself aren’t willing to see the whole picture either. Things take time regardless of whether you want them to or not. The fact that it has come this far already with a group of volunteers is outstanding. They will update when appropriate. I found the site they formed their LLC on. They COULD have set up the non profit first then wait on tax exemption, but that wasn’t done. They went strait for profit, which seems to me they are trying to profit off a game that was hidden from us for over 7 years. They could act like a non profit and post their receipts and balances, but they don’t. I have done research into the server site the posted and the math doesn’t match. I am sure most of you try to make well informed decisions in life, but so many seem blinded by the fact that the game is back. The most untrustworthy thing, that i cannot understand, besides covering up expenditures, is the fact they have allowed the same person who lied to us for 7 years be allowed to be part of the team running the server in any capacity. I was waiting to play after the whole BREE nonsense, but the fact he’s here means I won’t play here. Upfront: I am a big fan of Homecoming and the work they have done to bring us back our city. I know this is a volunteer operation, and I appreciate that everyone involved: a.) Has other things going on in their life b.) Is risking legal exposure just by participating Also, not expecting full transparency. I don't necessarily want to know how the sausage is made, and full transparency takes time away from maintain and improving the game. I will say however that Whythalie is correct. For reasons I can't fathom, Homecoming Servers LLC was NOT setup as a non-profit, which is typically done at the same time that you incorporate. Part of the incorporation process is defining the type of corporation you are, and Homecoming Servers LLC is setup as a general type, which is specifically, not a non-profit. Could be that someone made a mistake in the paperwork, but nonetheless, it is odd. Now what does take time (I've done it twice, and it sucked) is getting tax-exempt status for a non-profit. But they can't even start on that, because they are not a non-profit to begin with. I'm not crying foul play, but just saying that it is odd, and more-so, since Homecoming has told us they are going in direction that is not reflected in the state where they incorporated. Some transparency would be nice, especially if people are donating their money.

Totally agree. I simply think that playing with angst is not good playtime. :) The probablity of end users getting hit is so tiny as to be virtually immesurable, IMO, as a 30 year software developer for the finanical sector. Sure, it is non-zero, just like the chance of an earth killing asteroid hittin in my lifetime. None of this is without precedent, this is not the first MMO to have this happen, not even the first NCSoft one, I think. I also realize that every ten minutes, a few more people discover these servers and the merry go round restarts again. :) I have seen people post on reddit that one of the servers was issued a C&D and that never happened, so the FUD is still very thick. What, IMO, many of the posters here and elsewhere don't seem to 'get' is that even mentioning these things terrifies some people. The thing is, some people are just scared of life and no matter what we talk about, someone will get offended/put out/bummed. Nothing in life is certain, definatly not the fate of characters in a virtual world. I agree, playing with angst sucks. Lord knows, I have plenty of it. And I agree there is a lot of "stir the pot out there" to blow things out of proportion and get everyone spun up. For me personally, I'd rather know the risks going in, and make my own judgement call, but maybe I am being naive. Anyhow, +1 Inf for the kind reply!

I understand FUD very well, actually. I am loudly, repeatedly, dragging this FUD out into the light so it can be exterminated. There is no reason to worry as an end user about legal action based on current legel precendents. Understanding they are anxious is the whole reason I post what I post. There is no reason to be anxious. Anyone spreading reasons is spreading FUD - they have no case law, nothing, to show where there has ever been a 'crackdown' on end users of a game in this state. No legal precendent = no reason for end users to worry. The game _cannot disappear_, the code is in the wild. I know we've been around on this... I agree 99% that there is no legal risk to end users for playing this game. Lack of precedent is just a temporary thing. 100% of new legal precedents had 1 thing in common - there was no legal precedent before. So just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't. As for actual precedent look at music sharing sites and their end users who were sued for downloading MP3's illegally. Both the end user and the hosting platform were sued, and many of those cases were won. No one playing this game has any legal leg to stand on - not Homecoming, not end users. Again, I highly doubt that NCSoft is going to go the way of the music industry of the 2000's, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is 100% risk free And as for the game disappearing, there is a large portion of the community who is coming to play this specifically because it is out in the open. Despite being murky legally, it's public, it's supported, and it's huge (relatively speaking). Knock out those 3 things and it's going to cease to be an option for many (not all) people. So the code won't disappear, but having a large population on fully supported and relatively cost free servers, with updates, could. Additionally hosting your own illegal private server does have legal precedent against, and lots of it... I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on... TL;DR - There is extremely little legal risk to end users playing on Homecoming, but it not 100% risk free

Not sure where complying with Federal Law is somehow Homecoming's attempt to parent your child? Am I missing something? To start with, please bear in mind I'm being sarcastic and facetious. I'm trying to point out the absurd with absurdity. From what I can tell the whole point of COPPA appears to be preventing kids from sharing their information online and keeping them away from cyber-predators. What I am trying to point out in my question, and seems to have been lost in the weeds, is that the User Agreement is telling me that by pressing 'Accept' I am supposed to keep any child under my roof who is less than 13 years old from looking at my monitor while I play a video game. I'm trying to point out that there seems to be a disconnect between the lawyer who wrote the UA and the people who play the game who have kids. It also appears to be an over-reach from what the COPPA is intended for. My son, playing LEGOs on the floor behind me, is not going to be sharing his personal information through the monitor with people in CoH. That one section you are referring to - I skipped over it earlier...It does seem strangely out of place in this document and overkill for COPPA. Regardless, this isn't about Homecoming taking legal action against you - it's about them ensuring you don't take legal action against them. That's what all these protections are for - protecting them from us, not the other way around. Clearly, no one is going to know if your child is watching the game or not.

Not sure where complying with Federal Law is somehow Homecoming's attempt to parent your child? Am I missing something?

I would enter a support ticket - https://support.homecomingservers.com/

So does this mean I'm supposed to lock my 8-year old in his room every time I want to play? I realize tone is lost in forum posts, so I'll add italics for emphasis. Technically, according to Homecoming, no one under 13 is allowed to play. This is because of COPPA, a federal law designed to protect children under 13 on the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act I don't think there is going to be any policing on this unless someone jumps up and down in front of a GM saying "I'm 8", or starts spamming the channels about what they are going to do on their 9th birthday. I have a 9 year old, and hypothetically , he might have been near a computer today, that had city of heroes on it, on an account separate from mine. In this hypothetical, he would have been in the same room as me, and the account he might have been near would have had all the chat channels except team, NPC Dialogue, System, Rewards, Cutscenes removed.

In what sense? It's a User Agreement, so yes it is, but you aren't agreeing to very much here - Privacy Policy, Code of Conduct, No Minors under 13, Parents responsible for minors 13-17, You are responsible for your actions, not Homecoming, and that any lawsuits are subject to Delaware and US juridiction... Nothing about the legality of the software in there at all, but since you are on their servers and they are collecting information from you (email/IP address) they want to be responsible... Well, as responsible as you can be when you are doing legally dubious thing in the first place...

Thanks for the follow up PK! I was so happy to be able to skim the dev's comments

It's safe to reinstall - it's a known issue for some AV software Yes, that's going to continue to happen until I start digitally signing the .exe with a code certificate and they build enough "trust" with the AV companies. The code cert was requested a couple of weeks ago but it's still in the process of being issued, since Homecoming LLC is a new entity they are being extra demanding. I wasn't planning to patch until I had a cert, but it's been two weeks already, so unsigned .exe it is.

Duh! And you're calling them disconnected from the internet? They have stated an age restriction and you have to click to agree. If someone underage gets on, that means they lied to do so and that's beyond their control. I mean, oh my god, there are literally thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of games and apps out there with this kind of stuff. Have you been under a rock the past 20 years? Hey now, maybe he's just old and doesn't understand this newfangled interwhatsis thingy. In his day they didn't need to restrict nothing. In fact, you were too busy working 36 hours a day down at the mine, after hiking naked in 6 feet of snow uphill both ways, to play some videe-o game. (as opposed to me who's old and remembers the pre-interwhatsis thingy, and trying to untangle your phone cord enough to stick it in the phone-shaped modem holder and THEN go work in the mine since it would finally be connected by the time you got home, if you were lucky...) Tru dat! This from a fellow ancient gamer who also knows what a dangerous place the web (and associated games) can be for a kid. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, or not very realistic. As for how the devs here handle it, how about letting the people (the aforementioned devs) whose asses are the ones actually on the line if it all goes south, decide what legal maneuvers they have to jump through in order to keep doing the volunteer work that, in turn, keeps us playing this FREE game? QFT, and +1 inf

They're moving so slowly, in fact, that they've yet to actually remove even one farming tool. It is a slow burn your right, I'm going to need more popcorn. This is going kinda like gas prices, slowly rising (or in this case removing effectiveness), while letting everyone get adjusted to the new status quo until suddenly, look everyone $20/gallon it's our lucky day! So, since there is a small volunteer development team, we should recheck our adjustment level in what? 10 years? Get the jumbo, jumbo popcorn with lot's of refills....

BTW - just played for the last hour - love the new fX. Thanks for the work on that!

What part is giving a 404 page? I went thru the whole thing including the links and didn't hit any errors? I'm not a mindless mass and your experience is different than mine...

First off: I was fine with DFB the way it was, and I'm fine with the change. I also think you have well summarized most of what the anti-dfb crowd was saying. My thoughts True Your experience, is one data point. Mine is a different one. I get that you haven't had issues filling a non-DFB team, but I have. There are likely reasons, and I am not saying DFB nerfing is the solution, but I am tired of hearing everyone say how easy it is to form a team. It takes NO effort to jump into a DFB team. It takes a lot of effort to find the players that are willing to team for other content. Impossible? No. Incredibly Difficult? No. Harder? Yes It is annoying. Not saying it's a reason to change, but it is annoying. And of course it's easy to ignore non-DFB posts - there's what, 1 non-DFB for every 10 DFB posts? Its hard to see the non-DFB posts, super easy to ignore them It doesn't hurt anyone if other people level up faster than me...agreed Is it going to dramatically change behavior? No of course not.Well let's see if that's true. Is every single DFB player going to just do one of those 3 things? Maybe, maybe not. Let's observe first... +1 Inf for being pretty fair about this...

And I think bringing these things uo the way you did, leaning HARD on the 'fear' about 'character safety', does nothing but stir up ore angst and create more misinformation, all the while under the guise of 'trying to to help'. In the us-vs-them ANY sort of question like this, about VAPORWARE no less, does nnothing but sow angst. Frankly, I think your purpose is to sow FUD. That bums me out that you think that :-(. I'm really just interested in holding onto my character, no matter what happens on which population server. I read this reddit thread and thought the idea was intriguing (create a way to prevent permanent data loss). I was frustrated with the sort of "us vs. them" attitude in it, and was hoping there was something in the works to make everybody happy. I assume character permanence is a real concern for everybody involved in this project on both the player and dev sides. I've really been enjoying I25 and the Homecoming community so far. It sounds like everyone just wants to have fun in their own way. I didn't take your post that way - it's a legitimate question and forums are the place to ask them. I think character permanence is important to a lot of players, especially now that they could go start their own server. I've seen the posts across the forum asking for it.

I've reread the agreement a few times, and I don't really see anything here to software licensing. There is no attempt in this user agreement to claim or even not claim ownership of the code. Homecoming LLC does own the servers, and they are the ones hosting the game - the user agreement has 7 easy to read parts 1.) Definitions - seems straightforward 2.) Duration - all agreements have a duration 3.) Accept a privacy policy - Good! I'd like Homecoming to respect my IP and Email info - thank you! 4.) Accept a code of conduct - seems fair. They are in fact moderating the game, which I do like 5.) What does Agreement mean? This could have been the most damning part, but it's really very innocuous - a.) "are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of yourself;" Seems fair b.) Are 18 old and have a minor age 13-17 playing. In that case, you the adult take ownership of the minor's behavior....Seems reasonable 6.) Indemnity - this one is slightly tricky, Basically you are saying that Homecoming LLC, it's partners, and agents, are not responsible for any damages in playing the game. Basically it is saying - play at your own risk. So apart from the Privacy Policy and enforcing the Code of Conduct - they are not legally beholden to you for playing the game 7.) Some legalese saying that any legal action is subject to the state laws of Delaware and/or Federal Courts. That's it. Nothing, and I mean nothing about the software licensing. Basically - agree that if you play on our servers you will play nice and not sue us. I'm accepting. P.S. This is not to say that I don't think this isn't a horrible gray area legally. It is horribly gray with Homecoming on the losing side of it, should any legal action by IP owners happen. But this agreement isn't shifty, and isn't legally murky

Funny! +1 Inf

Big Bummer! I love the Dev Tracker....

(emphasis mine) Of course you still have the option. DfB hasn't been removed from the game, the rewards are just lessened at higher levels. And up until about level 17 or so aren't even nerfed by all that much. You can absolutely continue to run DfB until level 22 if you wish. It just won't be the absolute, 100% most efficient method of gaining XP any more. Agreed. New Players (who all start at level 1), can still use DFB as the most efficient to level up. They were already going to see a drop off at level 22 and have to find some other way to PL, now it's just started a little earlier...And who knows, they might find some different content they enjoy. I say play the game, see what happens. It's clear the dev's are listening - if they over compensated, or it causes major unintended ripples I am sure they will course correct. But let's get some data first before we paint in all absolutes...

What's there to trust? They aren't collecting any information from apart from my email. They have no payment info, personal information, or anything valuable from me except my time. Seems like the latest patch responded to requests I've seen right here in the forums (whether you agree with them or not, they were still voiced here). So it seem's like they are involving the community. But even if they didn't - if you like the game, play it, and if you don't, don't. They aren't doing this for profit. Everything is transitory - NCSoft shutdown after 8 years, this could shut down after 8 weeks...Regardless, it won't last forever, nothing does... There is no risk in trusting in them, so what do you have to lose?

Thanks for sharing - can't wait to reread. +1 inf

Pretty much my thoughts. Standard import/export, but decentralized files. Let it be something encrypted that the bigger server groups can make use of, but not something people can tamper with to boost their character. Wasn't the point that the code would all be original? How would they sue over that? Assuming the “they” you reference is NCSoft, only a small % of the code is original, and all of that is sitting directly on top of NCSoft's opyrighted code, and trademarked assets. Let me know if this isn't what you where refering to, or if the answer makes sense