Leogunner

In those groups, there is likely already plenty of AoE, tho. DM was supposed to be more ST focused to begin with. I guess the question is, is this change meant to just make them more AoE competitive in teams or just all around. Personally speaking though, I don't think the game needs more AoE without some sort of cost.

I don't think that is a necessary response. Especially trying to stifle my right to post feedback and suggestions. My thought is, rather than systematically stripping aspects of the power to fit neatly into a meta game box, you can have aspects of super powers that are extraordinary but not completely applicable to all situations. The same circumstance comes with suggesting changes for the armor tier 9s, they aim to make them more usable but ignore the concept of if they need them to be. Keeping the unique aspect (or creating one) isn't a priority. If you'd rather my suggestions get buried, your best option is to not respond to them so they don't get discussion.

Only if it's applicable to players too.

OR you could reverse it so having less END does more damage. At the very least it might conform to a unique kind of build that tries to burn some END rather that build for max END efficiency.

This has been suggested before but it's rather rare to see suggested. As described above, there has been some exploration of the code and limitations aren't so much limitations as they are complications. I'd like to hear more about this suggestion and descriptions of its implementation.

Supply and demand is a thing, though. If enough people know about converting merits into converters, you saturate the market and it might tip the scales to making it cheaper to buy something else with those merits. Same thing if you just keep having people exchange merits for inf... The supply of the recipes and enhancement are then affected and now scarcity drives up their price as inf becomes more inflated. You can't just whack some stuff down to equalize them... You just make a perpetual game of whack a mole as the value of your inf plummets. Also, communism doesn't work.

Not necessarily. I made a suggestion on one of the beta forums and no one mentioned if it was possible or not, but if there is a value labeled to give a reduction in endurance costs (endurance redux enhancements) there could be a negative version of that modifier that acts as an endurance tax to increase the cost of a power.

For all intents and purposes, that's a toggle.

Could one of the team only buff powers be changed to a hybrid buff/debuff power that jumps between both foes and allies? I was hearing that the jump number with static is going to be capless so it wouldn't be limited that way.

It is. Should I describe what "subjective" means? Ok, I think I have to explain how what you just said is nonsense. Any build that builds for good recovery likely already has capable slotting options. They can maximize the damage of their skills with slotting. They can use their skills with reckless abandon. They can push the fight far longer. Lowering the possible damage of 1 skill is, in no way, gimping anything. I could define the slang use of gimping, but hopefully you see my perspective on this. I can understand your perspective but I just disagree that a build that can push out DC over 25% more often, survive far more, retain Soul Drain uptime much more and utilize other AoEs with higher DPS with the Soul Drain boost more often would somehow be "gimped" just because Dark Consumption just does regular damage. No you didn't. It's fine though. I'm sure the most effective slotting of DC will min/max with procs anyway, benefitting from heighten damage, not being too penalized because the majority of its recharge will be brought down by set bonuses and maximized recovery will just add more benefit ontop. Like I said before, I just think it's too much. I'd prefer to just lower the damage so the set can have it's ST boosted in some way. The precedence this sets makes is that every offensive set is going to need a nuke.

The perspective of "punishment" is subjective. Those that maximized their build likely have access to the skill more often and thus capable of using it more often. If we're considering the philosophy of risk vs reward, it's not rewarding "poor endurance management" (as you can run low on END by just fighting longer or facing enough opposition) but rewarding good power usage. Holding off on using the skill until you drop below a certain threshold when you may NEED the benefit would mean practicing restraint which also directly lowers the damage the skill would produce due to not being used off recharge. If you actually consider someone else's perspective, maybe you wouldn't see it as nonsensical. A min/maxed build will turn this into a moderate and often AoE skill for DM. A non-min/maxed build that actually can utilize the utility gets a not-so-often mini-nuke. You end up getting more DPS with the min/maxed build vs just completely leaving standard builds in the dust. And I realize that the damage and recharge isn't that great on DC...that it becomes a nuke-like AoE capable of near 1-shotting bosses with crits isn't standard. It's drastic. Especially when considering DM was once bottom of the barrel for AoE.

The problem is, the game isn't difficult enough to even need the utility. So it makes this change into a focused homogenization of sets. The +END component can practically be ignored once you reach a certain point and it just becomes a high powered AoE. No risk. Maximum reward. No tactics. No consideration for timing. Just spam. The reason I suggested reversing the bonus damage is to justify it doing as much damage as it is capable of. If you're not capable of maxing out the damage every time (or, gods forbid, wait before using it), things like powers with crashes and what not could suck less and diversify combat. I've read them. I don't recall many of them pushing MA to the degree of damage and utility as this set has. Shadow Maul by itself likely out damages the AoE of MA now. Would Dragon's Tail need to become a nuke with wider range? Would a ST attack have to become a cone? I'm only arguing the change is drastic. I don't even care if Dark Consumption stays the same. Changing Shadow Maul into Negative Energy Slice (from Broad Sword) with -ToHit backed by the rest of the set's utility? Drastic.

I have not played the changes yet as for some reason, the connection to the server drops after character creation. From reading the various input: I worry about the precedence this has. Having Dark Consumption on a 90sec cooldown is great. Modifying the +END in exchange seems completely fair. Bolstering the damage to such a degree while maintaining its utility? I dunno. If anything, I'd actually reverse the bonus damage component (doing more damage the lower your endurance is) because it'd actually aid builds that need it and making it slightly harder to game. I just feel it's far too easy to min/max to push it to absurd levels. Considering what DM is at now, what kind of changes would be required to make Martial Arts match up to DM in AoE, ST damage and utility? That's what I'm worried about. Rather than being quirky, utilitarian with it's bag of tricks and decently effective, it goes into ludicrous territory by simply stacking lots of recharge bonuses which is exactly what everyone does. It looks like homogenization...especially with Shadow Maul with more standardized cone, damage/rech/cost and animation. I'm not a fan of the faster SM (I think someone made a jojo reference there but it kinda takes away that feeling by shortening it). The wider cone seems excessive too. 90 degrees would have been fine (doubled instead of nearly tripled) and leave the a slight cost penalty. As is, I think DM went from bottom for AoE to middle of the road rivaling Fire Melee, Ice Melee, Kinetic Melee...but with the utilities of great END management, a heal, -ToHit and Fear + a damage typing rarely resisted. Again, what would Martial Arts need to match this change? lol

Why not apply a "negative endurance discount" (for all intents and purposes, an endurance tax) that increases the cost of the foe's attacks? But all in all, combat encounters have become far too short. Encounters long enough will drain the foe's endurance to near empty without any -END or -recover. For endurance debuffs (and a lot of other defensive debuffs) to matter, you really need a game that is actually difficult against foes that are actually dangerous.

Well it's good to see the OP contributing to the waste of space thread with more waste of space posts. Proof positive right there. Also, appreciate the positive rep but it's not necessary.

How about the perspective that the stacking version makes other - def powers shine?

And you are the one asking for validation of your game cred and I feel THAT is a waste of space. Glad to see you see my perspective.

That's fine. And when you decide to make a quality suggestion, I will be there to give you quality feedback or incite discussion if there is none.

Well I feel I provided an adequate reply as to why I don't think it would make the fights harder. I guess I'm simply just resistance then. I'm not against giving the LTs leadership, I just don't think removing stacking vengeance is a fair trade.

Is a pretty braindead way of asking "do the characters I made do the things I built them to do?" You can make a Stalker tank, you can make a Tanker DPS, you can make a blaster support, etc. If you build them to do that. If you didn't know that already, you don't think that calls into question your credentials?

If you had your answer, why the fuck did you post this thread? Lol you come asking for people's opinion only to turn your nose up "Pfft I don't want your opinion *raspberry*" Goddamned waste of space...

I understand that, I just feel that requiring either the taunt or placate for the ST fear is my issue. I'd rather take the ST fear and the PBAoE fear without having to waste the slot on a power that might not fit the concept. I mean, Intimidate and Invoke Panic aren't *that* good nor is Pacify or Provoke.

Like I said before, if you're having a problem the usual solution is to "try something different". I guess if the enemies are so "annoying" but ineffectual, maybe try holding back on the nukes or time them with allies? I know, unrealistic to expect coordination or tactics but I say again, the way they are poses a larger threat as you CAN end up stacking Vengeance on a Boss that can cause someone some issues. What sounds most interesting, you ask? A fight that doesn't proceed like 99% of every other fight. I want more randomness, more unexpectedness, more need to adapt and change. The suggestion, while it may have a slight difference than current, falls squarely in the pocket of min/maxed steamroller teams. I see no reason to cater to that crowd. Not trying to diss that crowd but they need no assistance. I'd much rather that last minion pose more threat somehow than to nerf them so you don't have to be "bothered" by it because you just want to use the same herd&nuke tactics all the time.

Wouldn't this all just create an influx of inf? It'd be like the federal government printing more money and just paying people to buy food rather than creating the food stamps/ebt system. You might end up just ratcheting up the price of all goods rather than just feeding the hungry. As is, merits are like meal vouchers in that, you can either trade them for money (illegal but people DO do this) or if the price of the good is worth the price of the voucher, you just buy food with it. The person in the OP, frankly, I don't think is particularly wrong. If their goal is to get their enhancements a certain way, earning all the merits and purchasing them from vendors can be a means of growth and incentive to play the game more rather than seeking instant gratification to quickly trick out a character. Granted, I'm sure those that actually want to earn their characters' build through a series of trials, arcs, badges and limiting exp gain to create a well-rounded and custom made character the old fashion way are in the minority, but I hardly feel it's necessary to possibly alter the rest of the market because the game tries to guide you along this longer route rather than the expedient short cut. Remember, the game is meant to actually take more time than a few nights a week to get a tricked out character. Those that want to do that should need to actually SEEK the means to do it, not have the game point you to all the player made shortcuts.

It sounds like you just don't like the +def portion of Vengeance. Why not just admit that you don't want mobs to have too much defense? By the by, there are auto-hit powers that have -def. I have no qualms with someone expressing their distaste for mobs with access to gobs of defense and how annoying they can be but to me, it's just an opportunity for other powers to shine. As is, compared to our capacity to stack the tables, mobs never stand a chance. I just can't agree to stacking the tables in our favor even more out of convenience.