Leogunner

Semantics. Doesn't change my initial post. There are NOT as many requests asking for nerfs as there are requests for asking for more AND I demonstrated it by literally doing what the individual who quoted me asked (to look at the 1st page of the S&F board).

If they aren't asking for a nerf, then they are gimmes. I don't count Powerset suggestions or AT suggestions (despite me mentioning an AT proposal as a gimme) as gimmes because those are more like forum games rather than sincere requests to the developers.

If you can count, then you'll know you're wrong. And this has been a very mild couple weeks. There were people asking for inherent Hasten, for Swiftness to have +rech, for more enhancement slots post 50, so on and so on.

You're wrong.

To play devil's advocate: it's far more often people are asking for more and more GIMME GIMME GIMMEs than for people to ask for those gimmes to be taken away.

Doesn't compute. So now that IOs can overcome certain holes and shortcomings of armor sets, they don't function well as holes so should be filled? If anything, sets like Bio should be reigned in instead. It's no secret that the new sets are comparatively strong. While I can understand that no one wants to advocate for nerfing people's characters, the same courtesy should be afforded the opposite mentality about creeping power levels. That all being said, I think there's room to add to powersets but one would hope said additions make a powerset more unique in how its played, built or customized rather than just making everything "easier".

That was replying to "being mediocre unless you have the combos required to bring your set up to snuff" part of another one of your posts which was on the topic of having synergy combos added to exceed its performance currently. So in context, it's "mediocre until you make it better by utilizing the synergy". How much of an improvement that avenue would grant has yet to be discussed because people are complaining they need an origin power every character can get to light Oilslick. Imagine people complaining they need better inherent Stamina to be not weak...oh wait, they do...there are some even asking for inherent Hasten lol So to answer my previous question, yes, Fallout requires not just an ally but an ally in a specific condition. Your attempt to pivot my argument falls flat because I'm intentionally pointing out powers with conditions to use. That includes self-rez, ally-rez, etc. Powers play with these conditions intentionally to alter opportunity costs. The higher the opportunity cost, the better the expected pay off. It can be simple stuff like Phalanx Fighting giving a higher than average defense buff for a passive IF you have 3 allies standing close or SR passives giving you cumulatively over 40% resistance but requires you to be at low health. Oilslick Arrow's condition is quite mild though. Anyone here ever watch the anime HunterXHunter? It's one of the oldschool anime that handles things like power level and conditions quite well...better than most anime I've watch.

Can you use Fallout on a living ally?

It's the same because they require a condition to execute. It's not "ally only", it's "ally only" with the condition they are dead. The dead part is the condition. In the situation of Oilslick Arrow, the condition is "fire/energy damage" which is actually very easy to fulfill.

Might be the same reason you avoided responding to the other portion of that post. I suppose I just see a difference between a set being weak and a set that is just moderate/middle of the road/mediocre. But you can utilize it fully. It really is no different from Vengeance or Fallout needing a dead ally to work. Powersets have these variables because if they didn't they'd all perform very similar.

I think the crux of this counter is that it's fine being mediocre unless you specify specifically how it is not fine. That being said, I recall the devs speaking about aspects of the engine that will grant them capabilities to do things once deemed impossible (like being vectored knockback giving them the ability to implement "knock towards"). Just some food for thought there.

There are other differences in the power though, like OSA having a bigger area and a defense debuff component while Ice Slick has the -jump. Also, is there a bug that removes set IOs from being slotted in Ice Slick? That being said, I don't think the fire damage is a "bonus", per say. It's the presence of it in the set that's the bonus. Powers still have to conform to base standards for recharge, AoE, END cost, etc.

Be that as it may, I have no problem with it. I'll reply to you all day and I can match my tone to yours. If I'm projecting, perhaps you want to reflect on your own replies because you're certainly projecting said "problem" on me while being outwardly perturbed.

When did I say you were advocating for Vanden's position? I think you've misread some posts... Any agreement I may hold with Vanden's point is merely a perspective I can possibly see his aligning with mine. You posted a suggestion to make the set capable of lighting Oilslick Arrow and I'm merely responding with "Eh, that's not a problem with the set". You've somehow twisted my rationality for a possible set gimmick of synergy as something else in your lame attempt at being defensible.

It's my opinion. I feel sets like Katana or Street Justice fare better as they have more tools in their kit and their effects are very evident. Whether you can solo an AV/GM is hardly a measure of anything since a lot of sets can manage it. Like I said when I made a thread in the past about this set, I wanted to understand why this set wasn't beating out sets like Dual Blades in just usability. From my experience leveling a Savage/Electric Brute, it was painful. I'm not a power-gamer so I don't often min/max but that character was struggling to keep END and not dying to regular sized +1 mobs...which is just pitiful compared to the ease and fun I had leveling my DB/Fire Brute. I don't doubt you can build the set up but I specifically asked other Brutes what the deal was and didn't get much of an answer so I am left with my opinion that Savage (at least for Brute) is 'meh'.

I tested that back when I was trying to figure out my feelings on the set. No, when you use Blood Thirst while exhausted, you gain no Blood Frenzy stacks. [EDIT: Just hopped on my brute to verify it but seems I was wrong. You can remove exhaustion with Blood Thirst and it gives you 5 blood stacks.] Also, Blood Thirst has a lower damage bonus than Build Up type powers (+44% damage and +10% ToHit vs +100% damage and +20% ToHit) but last 50% longer (15sec vs BU's 10sec)...might sound like it starts to even out but then look at Blood Thirst's abysmal activation time...a horrendous 2sec cast!

You're the one exaggerating to make a point and you're defense is too exaggerate more. Taking responsibility? Lol I think you've gone full defensive mode and you're terrible at it. My point, and likely Vanden's, is the ability to light oilslick is minor and superfluous. Putting up a power change for specifically that is hollow. You can disagree all you want but you ain't looking good getting all defensive because someone doesn't agree with the direction you want to go with the set.

You'd also have to take into consideration that it's a scale based on a percentage of your health. Scrappers have much less health than a Tanker thus has less opportunity to actually utilize that resistance especially if they take a large chunk of damage quickly while the Tanker could take the same hit and still be left with over 20% HP. So basically, the Tanker's HP and HP cap give them a smoother scale for their resistance and for ATs with less HP, that effective scale will spike with narry a couple of pot shots left in them.

On a Brute, there is no endurance crash, just the removal of the endurance discount. Only 2 attacks consume Blood Frenzy: Rending Flurry and Hemorrhage. Also, Blood Frenzy only gives an Endurance Discount and a Recharge bonus, not damage. By damage, Flurry and Hemorrhage are supposed to do more DoT but I've not noticed much for it. There is no regen or healing in the set (although it would be better if the set could benefit melee builds if there were some). I've heard mixed messages from players. For some, posters say that Savage is on the top end of DPS but I'd wager it's only because of the minor +rech boosting some other AoEs in a build. As far as I know, the set doesn't have many avenues to IO slot since the only secondary effects the set has is -def in one and knockdown in another. Proccing might also be an avenue to make the set better since you can get a bit of extra recharge to make a smoother set of attacks and they animate relatively quick. IMO, Savage is meh...I don't like it. It feels like it has no impact, the mechanic is annoying and my character doesn't feel savage using it. There aren't many avenues to build it in a unique fashion and ultimately it is similar to claws in concept. If you want to play it, I heard it is very good for Stalker though.

Again, you're exaggerating. If it were gimped by design, then you'd be bitching if it could be lit regardless because EVERYONE ALREADY CAN LIGHT IT. There's a difference.

It certainly can be its gimmick if more powers and interactions were present like Oilslick Arrow. And I said "synergy", not specifically teamwork i.e. requiring another member of the team. If there was an interaction with another type of effect like a different debuff or another damage type or a specific power or set of powers that isn't fulfilled by fire, archery, electricity or whatever can light Oilslick Arrow, then your synergy is contained. The intent would be give the set strong effects but only under specific controlled conditions. You're sort of exaggerating it into "can't do everything thus underperform" when in reality, you're not suppose to be able to do it all.

I say "personally feel" to illustrate it's my opinion. And it makes more sense when you actually take into account that, again, the set natively doesn't light the oil slick. It's called a gimmick. A lot of sets have it. If the set's gimmick is synergy, that stands to be the set can be granted effects beyond what a normal support set is granted. If the set just has self-contained effects, it obviously must perform within parameters of a support set. In fact, I think it's why Oilslick Arrow has as much damage as it does...

I actually recall that being suggested too (the self-lighting slick) or adding more damage types that can light it (or just damage in general). I'll just say, all those ideas are very derivative and nothing new. Why not focus on other suggestions? lol

Immobilizes have their uses. Not sure why you're trying to exaggerate to make a point. Need I remind you, none of that has to do with the actual Trick Arrow powerset. IOs are a different can of worms. Eh, I'd prefer something unique be done with the set and your idea sets a precedence for the set I'd rather not go toward if it may hinder such buffs from implementation.

I personally feel the theme of the set was aiming to use teamwork for extra effect. That the set cannot light Oilslick Arrow itself isn't an inconsistency with the set or the theme since the purpose of Oilslick Arrow is to put down a knockdown patch. The damage is synergy with either your secondary or your teammate. Also, other sets, AFAIK, don't use synergy as a theme like Trick Arrow so there is no "dip outside to take advantage" since either that can be expanded to any broad circumstance (like Toughness for other resist sets) or Tactics for the old fast-snipe...or comparing apples to bananas since no set uses synergy in such a way.