Leogunner

I believe there is a few private servers of CoX out there. I think one of them put in the Guardian AT or whatever it is. For clarification, the changes that are outline on this board are completely isolated from those other private servers.

Well, I understand how you feel, and I felt the same way but I found that...when considering aspects of changes and perceived unfair treatment, it's also important to gauge the damage done. A lot of times, when people get offended by something, they only care that they are offended but ignore aspects like intent, harm caused, number of people affected, etc. You say that your characters are impacted. How much are they impacted, though? Do you feel it is such a drastic change that your character cannot perform like it did before? That it plays completely differently? That your team role has changed?

SS has perma Scrapper BU? Uhg, I really don't like that set.

If Bruising is so valuable for AV fights, why not give it to the AT meant to be the better AV performer: Stalkers. Tangent - If the devs are still contemplating new ATs to add to the game, maybe they can roll a Bruising-esque inherent ability into it and make it actually good and integral to its playstyle.

I'll just say, I don't think the purpose to improve Tanker is to make them more attractive to a team (Tankers are demonstrably an asset to a team if one chooses to utilize them...they certainly aren't a debuff to your team) but rather more attractive to the PLAYER to make. Why bother worrying about making Tanker meta in team builds when most teams just assemble whoever is willing to join?

It's actually better because it stacks.

Oh yeah, I remember that post now. Then I suppose the relative difference between double stacked Rage on Tanker/Brute vs the capable damage of the Scrapper version of the set is likely what is being considered here. But then I'd say what reason would SS on the other 2 need to do so much damage when you could actually play an AT meant to deal high damage using that set? Not saying it has to do little damage or far less damage, but considering the reason why jump through so many hoops to retain something that was suppose to be a neat quirk but is basically being unduly exploited. Great. Then the other points made were meaningless. I don't deal with people complaining about how other people might feel. It's a waste of my time. Well, it was an interaction initiated by a hypocritical statement by you (talking about insinuating insults while soundly insulting in a similar manner, the term "childish" being the catalyst). I merely rationalized the use. I still feel people are holding this double stacked Rage thing against the set and thus the powers can't just be made better...and all because people want to exploit recharge to it's maximum capacity. It shouldn't exist, IMO. Even perma is rather pushing it. The last part is merely my critique on the set's design, tho.

If you took those metaphors as insults, then who do you honestly think is losing credibility here? And no, it's not a last resort, it's merely a talking point, one you've chosen to go on a tangent on rather than defend your position. SS Scrappers. I will remind you, the reason Rage is being looked at in the first place is so it can be proliferated. Not sure how much testing is going on in this thread, but the tangent seems to be focused on more changes than just the ones on test. As for changes to Scrapper SS and other sets going to Scrapper, it's usually in the form of more damage, not less and that's likely what would need to happen if you can still double stack Rage. I'm trying to think of a proliferated set that removes damage outside of Fire Melee's AoE or some sort of debuff like -res being decreased by mods...

It's a debating tactic. You get distracted by the metaphor and thus forget to defend your position. You still didn't prove that you aren't holding the set hostage because you're focused on arguing how the phrase paints people as villains or how the individuals who prefer double-stacked Rage are being compared to addicts. No one actually thinks you're a villain or addict. We are adults, not idiots. Maybe you guys did, maybe you didn't (didn't read this whole thread), but why wouldn't you agree to compromise by removing the stacking nature of that buff and shore up some of the difference with changes to the rest of the powers? Any other talking point just makes you seem like a group who are intrinsically unreasonable thus shouldn't be considered seriously...which is the point of the tactic. Considering the set is being looked at for proliferation, I suppose we'll just have to keep debating on how viable the mechanic is for a double Rage Scrapper.

So what you're saying is they would have gotten more mileage out of a bubbler than your healer?

But every attack besides the ones that require momentum can get you momentum. You don't need Build Momentum to get momentum. If Build Momentum was a long duration "always have momentum" click that can be perma'ed, that analogy might work. But pets aren't a single power...they're like, 5 different powers. You're right. Lynchpin powers doesn't equal broken. But you're wrong here or why would this discussion exist? Or why isn't Scrapper kitted out with double Rage SS right now?

Dominator, preferably one with a means of keeping foes from moving and some added debuffing. Earth is a good one for -def and lots of AoE control. Elec can cancel mobs with drains. Neo-Fire with the Knockback-to-KD proc is great for softening mobs up.

I was actually going to say the same thing.

If it needs Rage to work properly, then something is likely wrong. If Rage itself wasn't this beehive of balance that inhibits the set from being ported, I could agree with you that nothing is wrong with it. And I'm not keen on taking anything away. The set is crap. It relies on a buff that it doesn't have to work to achieve (like Follow Up or Power Siphon), it's an iconic fantasy power executed poorly, the only reason it's gotten so much attention is because of its outlier power that shouldn't have been in the set in the first place. Look. I don't even play the set. I've never touched it. The only reason I'm talking about it is because YOU PEOPLE are talking about it lol. If it wasn't broken then why are we here? Apparently there is more to unpack here than you're willing to acknowledge. No, I said min/maxing isn't illegitimate. It's inevitable. Min/maxing does a service to spotlight outliers and exploits that may need to be addressed....min/maxers also have a cumulative effect of messing up games with meta-gaming builds to reduce the effort required to succeed in the game which tends to decrease replay value or retention.

I never said min/maxers were illegitimate playstyles. In fact, most min/maxers likely could adapt to changes if Rage was completely removed and exchanged for something else...that's what min/maxers do. It's those that have adopted the min/maxed dressing for SS who are now holding the rest of the set hostage so they can try to keep their double stacking. Yeah, forget FIXING the set so the rest of it is good, we need to keep double Rage despite it having nothing to do with the concept.

But is it though (balanced around having 1 stack of Rage)? I suppose there's an argument for how something is balanced vs what the design intent is. I don't play SS as the appeal wasn't emulated by the set or the game as a whole, but sitting on the outside looking in, I don't think it was ever designed to be an always on buff and the cost of using Rage vs it's benefit seems to illustrate that. And while you can't deal damage when Rage expires, you can still control the mobs, which again, is likely why that debuff exists. But rather than looking at this intent, many have been duped by min/maxers who are now holding the entire set hostage so they can reap benefits of double stacked Rage.

Just wanted to chime in and ask that you people don't see this as a problem? I know Perma Domination is amazingly good but the AT isn't balanced around needing it as a permanent buff. There won't ever be a good solution until people are willing to decide what the problem is. The debuff isn't the problem, the crash or even the exploitability of it isn't either...

It all gravitates around build investment. I don't have many characters that have fully optimized builds, in fact, I'd say I only have 2 with one being complete and another a WIP. Most of my characters aren't even max level because max level is boring and unchallenging. Someone said don't put slots at all, and I'm sure that's very beneficial for his build with kitted out recharge bonuses, but not for someone who just wants to get some use out of an IO proc. That being said, I probably will drop the slotting for BU and just the the BU refresh proc for a certain build, but for leveling, it's likely going to be a staple to have Gaussian's proc + 1-2 slots for rech for my leveling stalkers/scrappers.

Well I answered my own question. Bopper's thread had the PPM guide, formulas and calculator all in one post. cliffnotes: You can slot 70.35% recharge in Build Up and it will keep it's maximum chance to proc Gaussian's proc (max chance to proc is 90%).

I haven't gotten my poison/dark up to level 38 yet but I want it so bad. I already have a -ToHit/res PBAoE toggle + stun minions and some more debuffs from poison trap. Being able to just debuff the crap out of their ToHit even more...I want to get the recharge down on Blackstar as much as possible...gotta get it first though 🙂

Are you inferring that Tanker should have 3 different kinds of Bruising?

A product of the baked in nature if primary/secondary pools vs basic power pool/ancillary/patron power pool.

Just curious if anyone knows how much of a chance reduction you get on the Gaussian BU proc if you slot 1, 2 and 3 SOs worth of Recharge Redux. Without any recharge slotting, the BU proc is nearly 100%.

Not going to lie. As the Stalker, I was intentionally trying to push boundaries without actually tying to get anyone killed. Like I said, I don't have to actually give a **** since I can just snoop around spawns or peace out if things get hairy. That being said, he/she wasn't a bad tank, per say...just one you wouldn't want to seek out again.

Also to note, the cones will remain relatively unchanged from the next patch (if PH's posts are still accurate). DM has PBAoEs that will be reduced but they are more utility than damage.