Leogunner

There are sets with rezzes and self-rezzes in them. I personally don't think that's sending a message to turn off your toggles and go get blasted on cooldown. You CAN, but frankly, I feel it's a waste for when you DO need that rez and it's on cooldown. If you're making the argument that people try to min/max Vigilance to the peril of their teammates, I'd ask for some evidence. It's possible that new players might try it but once they discover what the bonus actually grants, they'd probably stop bothering...I'd even go so far to say said new players likely get a good amount of use out of the inherent because they are learning what they're doing. I don't think it's quite the parallel of your other example because the bonus Vigilance provides is nowhere near as effective. The strawman is framing Vigilance as a boon worth sacrificing your team for (as it being some sort of optimal path the game is pushing you toward) but fully acknowledging it's limited use. Perhaps it's linking two trains of thoughts in your post that run separately and putting them on the same track but that was the jist I got from your post. I'm somewhat in agreement with @Bentley Berkeley in that Defenders really don't need anything added to them to make them better. They already do the most buffing, they get a leg up on secondary blast effects and solo, they get put at the same damage standing as a Corruptor before Scourge. But at the same time, I don't like the current Vigilance and wouldn't mind trading it in for something else. My stance on the topic leans more toward aspects people have complained about in that a Support AT's premiere buffs don't affect the user and at one point during live, I suggested Vigilance giving the Defender some limited version of their buffs castable on themselves (before the whole AoE buff bubbles was a thing) but now I know it's likely too strong. I also don't think just giving them "alternate Leadership aura" does much except make a Defender player feel special. To reiterate my suggestion: Trade old Vigilance for an alternate version of Domination (build-up bar and a clickie). Passively, the inherent gives them some minor END redux, the bar fills up as teammates or yourself get hurt (builds faster with fewer teammates) and the button just provides mez protection and maybe another self buff. Balance it so that the duration isn't long but the recharge is also short (fyi, I dislike perma-dom and wish they'd give it the same treatment, but that would be a nerf) with the choke point being you'd still have to build the bar between uses.

Well I don't think the point you're highlighting isn't so much an issue as it is a circumstance you've decided to antagonize. You yourself paint this antagonistic circumstance as being disliked and detrimental and useless BUT frame it as optimal? That makes no sense. At best, putting it into my own terms, it's not about clutch healing or setting up a contextually detrimental playstyle at the expense of the poor min/maxers that can't utilize every decimal to their upmost advantage. It's just unshackling a certain burden to be used as the defender sees fit. You don't have to use it. You don't need to use it. It's merely there to allow the defender to fight back even when in dire straits. This doesn't have to be at the expense of good play (in fact, it allows risky play. Ask a player to get as-ploded so the defender can Veng+whatever other rez boon card they are holding) but it could merely be a bad pull or even the Defender itself tanking but got carried away and got taken down for a short moment. I'm not saying Vigilance is perfect or even great but then I do have words with framing things purposely to strike down afterwards with a shoddy argument. It's hard for me to support a suggestion that makes assumptions or jumps to conclusions for no reason but to make their statements look good.

My issue is that your suggestion is that it doesn't actually do anything interesting. A passive buff is boring. Supporting a team more when you're already at the top of the charts is also boring (I know you Defender healer purists out there get off to doing nothing but support but that isn't the only thing you're supposed to be doing lol). If a change were being considered, something more active would be great especially since support sets tend to have a degree of passiveness (and compared to a dominator or controller, defender is pretty passive, even moreso for bubble sets).

It's not that I'm new to controllers, I just don't like their concept and powerset combination. But it was partially to do with some discussions about Trick Arrow and wanting to give Ice Control a fair shake. It's pretty fun. I have 2 holds (Block of Ice and Ice Arrow), 2 AoE holds (Glacier and EMP), 2 slicks (ice and oil), 2 immobilizes (chilblain and frostbite...I bet you thought I was gonna say entangling arrow, I don't really use that lol) and some decent -res. Offensive wise, it's kind of interesting to lean on Jack and using the Sorcery Pool heavily is nice.

They should add an optional sepia filter for all the young players so they can tell that the game takes place in the distant past where people flipped open their cell phones and only chatted online via Instant Messenger like Skype.

Such negativity lol Could just view it as an inherent that helps those in need, i.e. the young/low level/newb Defender who doesn't have all their powers slotted or is just up against a bad enemy match up. Unless it's to shore up the AT's weakness, I don't think Defenders need help to support better. Even sets with no heals and only +def/res buffs, they tend to push a team's survival to the point they can take care of themselves with their own heals/regen/inspirations. Personal opinion here, but I find the categorization of "selfish" kind of out of place. In a combat situation, the medic shouldn't administer aid if they themselves are in danger. Not all the time will you have a tank or CC or another support available to babysit you (the defender) when you're in trouble. If the inherent is going to get changed, I'd propose ontop of a bit of END redux as a base (not dependent on hurt teammates), it should be something like Domination with a bar that fills up (as teammates take damage) and then a button that grants the user +def, +res, +Heal over Time and +mez protection. The def/res wouldn't be much but the meat of the suggestion would be the mez protection which only a limited amount of primaries provides (FF, Sonic and Traps, I believe) and even then, having holes to sleep that can cause your support powers to toggle off. This is taking into account the level up game. I don't really care about incarnate.

I have Zero-Kelvin taken for my Psi/Ice Stalker on Indomitable. I actually don't like Controllers but I decided to roll up one I had on the test server, an Ice/Trick Arrow. It's rough to start which was helped with Arctic Air (oddly enough, couldn't find any DfB groups on Friday when I rolled him). It's pretty busy although I do enjoy double Ice holds for concept. It was a long road to get Oil Slick but I found the build overall has an abundance of slots. I guess I should start proc-ing up Frostbite (already have the holds and the ST immo proc-ed up with 2 procs each).

To say the least, this thread had some interesting replies. Basically, no matter how careful or lightly you tread, it just isn't possible to walk on those eggshells without pulverizing them into microscopic dust. That isn't to say I'd agree with the OP playing a racist or a Nazi (there is a bit of a difference there lol funny how they tend to get lumped together so often) but I just feel this whole walking on eggshells thing is self destructive. Personally, I'm just sick and tired of them. Never in my 30 years of living have I heard, seen and talked about Nazis as much as I have in the past 5. In the eastern countries, like South Korea, it used to be pretty popular to wear the garb, maybe because it wasn't just a fashion statement but also because it was sort of a forbidden faux pas so it's kind of uncommon and eye catching. But it's taken quite the turn in the US to the point we're constantly portraying more and more stereotypical racists, white supremacists, nazis and police brutality in social media, popular television, activism, etc. I mean, who do you really think is keeping Nazi depictions alive and relevant? Actual Nazis? Racists people? Or maybe those woke rich "influential" people putting up articles and TV shows? You keep suppressing people and it's only going to draw them to that thing more. I'm not scared that a racist person will make a racist character and hide behind it as an excuse to be racist. I'm scared that this whole thing will continue further and rape will be added to this frequent depiction and draw people's interest, maybe followed by pedophilia or worse. I'm not sure why you'd want to make a Nazi character, OP. I personally have neutral interest in them (I watched enough documentaries, read a manifesto or two and listen to various people talking about such subject enough) but I wouldn't try to suppress your desire to explore such a character. Maybe you'd get bored of it after a while. But that's just my perspective. When it comes to others, there's no telling how irrational they will react, be it that they are truly offended and harmed by your words or (more likely than not) suppressing everyone so they themselves aren't tempted to do the same (as a black person, I can't express my disdain accurately when I hear about some black celebrity advocating for violence when some dumb thug ends up dead because they were a thug and being violent...or siding with a proven criminal just because they are black...it's literally racist tribalism...but they want to censor and suppress other racists).

There was another suggestion for an electric-concept support set. It has some chaining mechanics in it too.

I also like the idea of power synergies as it tends to lean toward the concept of a real hero using gadgets and planning to fulfill a certain outcome. This is emulated by the player and the powers they bring along. I think there should be more synergies that could grant the set some of the power it needs to catch up to other sets (not all...I think the set could still seem some standard number tweeks as well) and they all don't have to be targeted at specific damage types.

And you're just restating what I already replied in more words. Requoting: "Perfect IO builds sometimes have to sacrifice power choices and slots to attain their desired performance and concept builds often suffer from low performance or lack of tools to fulfill their character's concept." I don't think it's necessary or healthy to drag out that arguing point every time you want to make a change. It just drags out other arguments like do or not balancing around IOs or min/max vs concept builds. And I don't personally expect the game to conform to every crazy concept I can think up just because I want it either. I can list off many characters where I had to compromise to get the concept across. I mean, we aren't even talking about how you can't color TA's FX which one would think is more important when creating concepts but no, it's something else mitigatable through something very simple and then exaggerating their story to give the complaint more weight. And that strikes at the root of why I'm even replying in a lot of these threads: Posters exaggerate and I just come in with my perspective but apparently I'm crapping on their posts. Then those posters get a bug in their ass and start arguing. I didn't say any of the sort. At best, I'm saying you're not alone. And I don't mean in how they can't light oilslick in specific cases, I'm talking about in making compromises in their builds and/or concepts to get the desired outcome. You haven't even hashed out what the concept is (which would be important since that is the root of your problem here). I have far more fun making suggestions to character concepts than to suggested mechanical changes because it's interesting to hear how players rationalize powers (and you can do much more as a player in that regard). As for using the taser, I still haven't encountered this myself except for when the power just expires after missing enough times with the origin powers. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm saying it doesn't happen every time since I was able to miss it multiple times and still light it. Again, that's not saying "accept the bug", it's saying "hmm, this is my experience with that bug". And I'll just reiterate that I'm not telling you to accept it and stop complaining. I'm telling you my experience with it on a controller and defender is different from yours on a mastermind. At best, that might mean it's a different bug for the MM version. As for being free to complain, I also hold the freedom to criticize and hold my own opinions. So just keep that in mind.

I'm not sure why you went on this tangent. To bring up min/maxing IO builds as to why a build is limited from choosing a specific tactic is as shallow and superfluous as trying to claim a thematic build forces you to not have powers to trigger Oilslick thus apparently we need to take IO builds and concept builds into account. It's not going to happen. I mean, sure, you can continue to complain that the game doesn't always perfectly fall into place for every build but you aren't the only one and it really isn't an arguing point. Perfect IO builds sometimes have to sacrifice power choices and slots to attain their desired performance and concept builds often suffer from low performance or lack of tools to fulfill their character's concept. My only hope is that perhaps the OP was aided in some way so that their character had an easier time with their character rather than waiting for the off chance the devs decide to alter Entangling Arrow or some other power. I didn't miss that. I actually did comment on the bug. However, you're overstating it. When I was observing the size of the Oilslick on test so that I could take pics for that other thread, I did test to see if the size of the burning patch was smaller and from what I could tell, It was the same size as the oil slick. But anyway, when I was doing that, I was gauging the size of the slick by using Ice Slick so it was an Ice/TA controller so I had to use the origin power to light it. Since the build had no enhancements or powers outside of Ice Control and Trick Arrow that would help with accuracy, I occasionally missed with taser. There was one time I missed 2 times. Needless to say, it doesn't always disappear if you fail. In fact, that bug never occurred despite trying different methods. Also also, it's very possible to light the slick so late that it ignites after the oil disappears, just leaving the burn patch, which is what I started doing to compare the size of the slick vs the size of the burn patch. I have no doubt that Oilslick does bug sometimes, it did it somewhat moderately when I played it on live, but I think that has more to do with powers that don't do energy damage hitting it causing this hiccup.

FYI, you don't have to pick a specific origin. You can go to the P2W vendor, revoke your origin power and then pick one of the 2 that deals energy damage.

I mean this one where you idiodically go by the numbers displayed on MIDS that say's Oilslick is 5ft range but hilariously don't understand what that means (that it would literally be smaller than a melee damage aura which are 8ft range) then admit you don't even know what the range of oilslick is here: As for this: I assume people log into the forums to discuss things not pat eachother on the backs and agree with everything everyone else says. I'm sorry that you decided to come into this thread with animosity then complain when someone throws some animosity back. I'm willing to drop misunderstandings or feelings of hostility between threads. Do you really want to continue what was going on in another thread here?

Are you still mad that I corrected your mistake that you decided to double down on? But apparently I'm the miserable one? No need to hold a grudge...unless you want to go. I might be able to find some time for a forum argument tomorrow lol I read what you wrote and I provided a counter argument that you seem to want to ignore or don't understand. Your qualifiers to present your argument on a stronger foundation merely expresses that Oilslick Arrow has a unique mechanic. It doesn't, however, support your argument that it is somehow inherently unfair, broken or unusable. If I were to read your initial reply to me: Considering your specific qualifiers, you're still ignoring Poison's Noxious Gas. Adding the qualifier of "a power from your other primary/secondary other than TA" is merely moving the goalpost from this response. It's no different from taking 1 power from a pool or taking 1 power from your primary. It's the same thing. As for other interactions with other damage types, I'd adore they do that for other trick arrow powers. That's actually why I advocate for that particular status quo. It's a neat mechanic that should be expanded upon, not shored up because some people don't like it and yet can't be arsed to play a different powerset. ...but then my goal in posting in the thread was to help OP, not complain about a set I don't like.

I just did. Those are the only powers that impart no effect to the ally you cast it on and only effects enemies. Even Enflame in the Sorcery pool can be targeted on a foe and affect foes. They are still unique to powers like Power of the Phoenix because that affects both ally and foe. And that still fits Poison's Noxious Gas because you do require a power outside of the set (you need a henchman). To complain that Oilslick Arrow requires one of two specific damage types is like complaining that Nature Affinity has bloom or Street Justice has combos. Oilslick requires fire or energy damage to trigger and you too can pick up a ranged energy attack for a pool attack starting at level 4. It's available to everyone. And if you don't want to spend a power pick, everyone can revoke their origin power for taser or charm. All that really does paint that there is no real issue there.

Sonic Resonance has 2 powers that affect foes that cannot be used without allies and Poison has a power that specifically needs henchmen to use. Neither of those sets have powers within the set to make full use of these foe-affecting powers. Frankly, if that is your point you either are wording it badly or you're trying to embellish the fault so that this pin-prick of a point looks like a cannonball sized hole. Like I said before, lighting Oilslick is the least of TA's problems.

The thread is talking about ways for an AT to light Oilslick, not the flaws of Trick Arrow. Lighting Oilslick is the LEAST of TA's problems (that being, sometimes it doesn't light at all).

There's also the pool attack available at lvl 4 that does energy damage. None of that reflects what the OP is even talking about which is:

I personally enjoy my regen characters as is and would advise those seeking a conceptual "Wolverine" or "Deadpool" type regeneration character to pick up Willpower. To emulate fast regeneration in a game, you have to decrease incoming damage to a degree that the regen can overcome or match it in consistent degrees but also not regen so fast that lower amounts don't completely ignore it. WP does this with Rise to the Challenge on top of its layered mitigation. Current Regen is a different concept. It's not really damage regeneration but rather damage negation. You get impaled by a truck and then you click a button to make the damage not there anymore. That being said, I don't think you're really ever going to make a set that functions great with only one form of mitigation. You can't just have pure defense or pure health regen. You, as a player who is min/maxing is going to want to stack resistance and defense and health recover to get the optimal performance for your min/max needs. But for changes I'd like to see is giving Instant Healing some instant healing ontop of its regen so it too can be another click to reset your health without the need of Dull Pain (although you'd still likely stack them, just staggered slightly) and for all powers in the set to have some % of debuff resistance (-END, -regen, -def, -speed, -rech) so that with some stacking, can provide varying degrees of resistance ranging from "soften the sting" to "what debuffs?".

I think that might be in regards to customization, i.e. you can alter the look of the pets but you can swap the models with another model. At which point, you won't be able to use the old models, just the ones you replaced them with. As for the devs giving feedback, I'm not opposed to it but this is also not their job. I'll just leave my commentary to that and hope for more feedback and discussion. Often, ideas and suggestions get bogged down or locked by side discussions (I'm guilty, too) so some criticism for the regular forum go-er is don't always take the "high" road and say what people want to hear or nothing at all. Talk about as many facets about an idea to really get the discussion flowing.

Seems rather nit picky to me. I mean, you level up, you go to a trainer, you pick a new power...and right there, you can change the colors/fx. That it costs inf is kind of a necessity since you'd imagine there needs to be MORE inf sinks rather than fewer. Even if powers took the color of the primary/secondary, there's no guarantee it will look right, especially with dark or natural palettes or aim for min fx. Then there are those jokers that do multi-color powers on their powers so it's a mere minor inconvenience that helps individuals do their due diligence to get rid of some pocket change while making sure their powers' colors look right.

But control isn't pointless, especially not pre-32. And while support isn't the best, it doesn't need to be since support stacks. No one is going to turn down a Controller's Fortitude or Tar Patch just because a Defender is on the team. And relying on IOs isn't a fix, it's an adaptation. You don't like soloing slowly? You either need to sacrifice power choices to pick up actual damage powers (you've got the Fighting Pool, you've got blasts in Sorcery or Force of Will) or you need to pony up some investment into enhancements that will get the job done. I'd recommend looking up the proc-monster build philosophy and take advantage of them because DPS ATs actually don't get as much out of them as non-DPS ATs. The game isn't balanced around IOs but it's also not balanced around soloing +2x4 spawns either. Go play at +0x1 and tell me how slow it is. I bet you it ain't that bad.

You're not making a convincing argument. They don't just have control to be useful to a team. They have support. And while it may be a slog to get to lvl 32, it's not unsurmountable plus you WILL be useful to a team pre-32. If none of that works for you, slot damage proc IOs in some of your powers.

Controllers aren't meant to deal loads of damage. Why not ask for containment damage on your pets or something?