WindDemon21

Which would be more in line then with the suggestion to simply lower the recharge to even the 120s (180 is still just way too long). The 120 would at least for one line it up with soul drain, but would let it be up every other mob or so as opposed to every 3 mobs. Still not the greatest power, but at least at that rate it would do its job enough. Consume/Dc, in every combo I've played, from low levels, and many 50+s, in each playstyle, is just awkwardly far too long, and always end up with an awkward kinda waiting to use it to make it actually help enough and just really makes the set not fun or effective.

This is actually flat out wrong unless you meant something else as well. As there is NO benefit to the power currently when you hit more than 5 targets as you already max out on your endurance. In the opposite thought that I think you were thinking, with the change suggested, the more end on the first target means you DON'T need a full spawn to get most of the benefit out of the power. Now if those were the values at a 120s recharge even, then yeah that would definitely be a nerf, but at the 40-60s recharge then no, it would be a buff in all scenarios whether it's versus 1 target, 5, or 10. It would just mean that you'd have to use it more times, but there would definitely be more endurance gained over that fight.

Actually, I'm fixating on the OPPOSITE. Getting more of it on the first target, so it's better balances when there AREN'T full mobs. Again the values were a suggested Idea, but they were also at 40 or 60 seconds so you can get that gain how many more times than the current model. There is some clear math you don't seem to be getting here relating to the end/minute gained by the suggested change. If a number is off, it can be tweaked, point being to find that magic number. 150 is still too long, with nothing else changing I'd easily propse it at least be 120s and line it up with soul drain (and still bump the radius, again, bare minimum to 10ft, which honestly all melee aoes should be brought back to that, definitley a main reason i end up not playing any of my non-tank melees especially on teams.) Again on consume, relating to the set as a whole and the other armors end gain powers, it would absolutely be in line with a 60s recharge. But I'd still say bare mininum as well with the 120s recharge, and for consume have its recovery buff duration increased to at least 30 seconds. The recovery buff is also so minimal 5 lousy % per target, having more on the first target would still make more sense for the power as well. Edit, also those original values suggested, were also in an attempt to not OP the power, but giving it more use as an actual attack as well. If you think the issue (which it's not) is that it's not giving enough end, then you'd be stating that the end gain should be more is all.

Which that thought would even more say how it's not needed, but then should be considered where it would be more beneficial for those that actually want to use it to help the set ie pre-50 for example. The 3 minutes is just way too long to actually really help the set. Compared to other armors, fire is still one of the weakest armor sets even after the recent changes. This scews a bit on tanks obviously cause they can actually make the resists matter more. And that's fine, as it works more on damage too, but that's also where consume should play a bigger role to help the endurance on the set. The set should be *workable* but then offer the other benefits, but especially since that HUGE burn nerf, the set still just feels lacking. Having consume actually be more reliable for end help would honestly put the set at about exactly where it should be (and certainly wouldn't OP the set by any means either).

There is a big difference between "easier" and "this power should definitely not have a 3 minute base recharge and is far too situational. This I get, though it's another thing when talking to random people and global channels with whom you've never interacted with before. This is where I wish there was a polling system available that could actually grab the whole playerbase's response (or at least those in game versus the forums only). Regardless, when talking improvements factors are considered. As it stands i'll never take DC as it's far too situational at that recharge for what it does (ie it's severely underpowered), let alone having to warrant slots to it, so i've always had to build around it. Consume on the other hand, I'd say easily more so definitely should have the recharge reduced to be more available. Again, look at power sink, energy drain, energy absorption. All are on 60s recharges and not overpowered, most also come with bonuses via buffing defense etc, all sets also which already have end drain resistance in their armors, or flat out high cappable defense to avoid end drains in the first place. Consume having that there and the not DP levels of max HP is far from an outlier in this category, and should have the same benefit of the 60s recharge as well. The damage it does, has always been too meager to consider for anything tbh outside of simply allowing more IO set options/procs. If we delve to that, I think a middle ground would be like 120s, and bump up the recovery duration to at least 30 seconds. (Again with more on 1st target for AV battle use, even like DC, the whole 25 end per target up to 10, vastly wastes the benefit of more than 4 or 5 targets being hit, esp if you slot for end mod, even if that were still kept for full end on midsized mobs that use would help those powers out as well.) I think one of the other servers actually did this already with bumping up the recovery duration and shortening the recharge.

Even as an end gain power though, and even with the damage it has, it's still WAY too long of a recharge on the power though. with nothing else changing, it still needs a recharge reduction flat out, same with consume. Regarding consume, some of you are trying to factor the power, but how the set. It was one of the places they decided to add that, but especially since temp protection has that regen, it could just as easily, and even more-so, make sense that they would have put the max hp into temperature protection instead. The powers main use has always been to help with endurance, and even with the hp buff, at 3 minutes that's still way too long for the power to do what it needs to do to help the set out. Regarding DC again, with nothing else changing it still needs that recharge reduction, even 2 minutes would be fair and line it up with soul drain at least, but 3 is terribly too long. If it's intention is mainly for the end gain, then it still should have that recharge reduced, I wouldn't honestly even care as much with the damage going down, if the power itself was actually more usable since most proc it for damage anyway cause it's damage is so sub-par for that recharge. If that's whats needed to get its recharge down, i'd take that any day of the week, but as it stands the power doesn't need that reduced as with its current stats the recharge is still just vastly too long. Not wanting it as a spam power, ok, that's one thing, (which 60s base isn't quite spamming, it's usually one use per mob, and if the mob lasts long, as the numbers dwindle too you still debate using it, or saving it for the next mob anyway). But even as a "when you need it" power, 3 minutes again is too long. Maybe some of you (not in game, i know far too many people in game who agree so really annoying it's always the same few people on here crying out against anything to help a power or set), prefer it as the longer power, ok, the stance would be maybe to the 90-120s recharge then, but defintiely not 3 minutes, it's quite absurd. Maybe if it did more than just a minor damage, one shot end gain, ie like a recovery buff that lasts more than 15 seconds (seriously consume WTH??), but as it stands now, that 3 minutes definitely needs reduced.

At 60s you still could, it would still have max proc chances if you don't slot any recharge on it.

You're also not factoring, that you don't use DC every time it's up the second it's up, as you will wait till your end is all the way down to get the most out of it, and also waiting till the right mob size as well for the same reason. Adjusting it to a shorter recharge with more end on the first target, means you'll get more endurance more consistently, because you'll actually USE the power more often due to how it works as well. (edit: cause you won't be worrying about trying to maximize it each and every time as the additional end per target isn't as much) Also regarding the power, even with the new proposed stats, it's also really dumb having it at an 8ft radius, at even 40 or 60s (esp at 180) it should have a 15ft radius easily. FYI, even without this changing (ie may not have a full mob in that radius) the new version still ends up as more endurance over time.

Same thin The end gain was the balancing. It's not hurting the end gain overall, it's actually improving it in all scenarios over time, even down to 1 target (i know you didn't see my last post before this one, refer to that) Honestly, if it's easier, keep the damage the same. Regardless the main thing is the power needs to be more usable, more often, and in more situations, rather than the terrible stats it has now. This definitely WILL NOT handicap anything, as given the shorter recharge, you can use the power more often. If you look at the last post I made, it's a net gain in endurance in all scenarios.

IE: Current DC: 180s rech/25 end gain per target, x10 targets, would be at a simple 60s recharge for 8.33 end/target times 10 targets is 83.33 end total. Now one of the big things is the use on a full mob versus when the mob dies down and you still need that end. Current version is HORRIBLE at this, especially a million times over how terribly stupid that 3 minute base recharge is, meaning that it's also almost dumb it even does damage, cause it can't much be used well at all for that, and as an end power, its also too long of a recharge for what it does that i've ever been able to justify getting it for either, or both combined. Now I'd actually still vote around 40 seconds similar to the use of savage leap as a damage power with end as the benefit, again, moving the main portion of end to the first target, this still lets it be more useable than it's current version in all scenarios whether versus 1, 4, or 10 targets as the damage it does would actually be useful to use constantly as an attack as well instead of trying to wait for the perfect moment when you need it. So let's go with that, the 83.33 at 60 seconds, to 40 seconds so 2/3 is about 55 end, so that's = 30 end on first target, and 2.5 per target for the low end gain stat x10 would be 55 end per cast on a full mob. So at face value, it's roughly unslotted full end in 80 seconds on a full mob, vs the 180s unslotted with the current version. IE yes, improved because it is currently TERRIBLE. Now to go the other scenario, where this current version is higher on all targets, which gets you to full in we'll say 5 targets given accolades, bonuses, superior conditioning etc. At 5 targets, that's still full end, and the new version would be 30 + 12.5 = 42.5, so roughly 100s equivalent versus the current 180s version, so not quite as good as versus a full mob, but still better than it's current version over time. And ultimately down to 1 target, like vs an AV, that's 30 end, versus current version's 25 end, and on a much shorter more useful timer, meaning the power actually matters for these fights as an end helper, and it's more useful all around having it up faster as an attack as well. A net gain all around, which is exactly what this power desperately needs. That said, yes it should still be calculated as more of an attack with an end bonus beyond these suggested stats. while the set could use it (depending if they increase the radius on tof at least), It would still be a pretty big help on end that other sets don't offer. If you can't build with that helping you out, then you really don't have any hope lol, but as it stands, the power is just TOO terrible at that 3 minute recharge to ever factor it in to any build i've ever made, let alone even trying to devote slots to it and getting a terrible return.

Yes I know, the statement was with that all factored in, the recovery portion was pointed out more of like, why is that even bothered if it's not really useful for such a short duration, hence where more of the focus lies on fixing the powers base recharge to the more appropriate 60s recharge. (fyi, other sets that have these end gain powers still have end drain resistnace (or can cap defense so you don't get hit by them in the first place), just not in the same power so the bonus of the end drain resistance in THIS power alone, is fairly moot, hence again the focus on fixing the power itself via the 60s.

At which it's still WAY too terrible with that 3 minute recharge. That's nuke territory, not just an end gain power. And you're missing what I said, those values estimates btw, would be if given its current .52 end cost. As an attack with lesser end gain, that balances out for its recharge time/end gain. In this scenario, that's also given that more of the end is on the first target (the 2 end is kinda more just to let it still do something on additional). If those numbers don't jive with you, then please suggest something that works for the power, but 3 minutes is ABSURD for this power for it's recharge, and there is simply nothing you could say that would justify this. The devs even agree, but only left it as is currently due to not wanting to waste more time on the power amid conflicting thread posts about it so they could roll out that issue when they did. We're talking fixing the power, numbers can be calculated, but as it stands the power is TERRIBLE with its damage, recharge time, aoe/target cap etc. And needs fixed. If you can't see that and see that there is a way to fix it and make it work, then you really shouldn't be posting here. Also, back on the penalizing, if the powers end cost WAS going to go up, then the gain portion would be higher respectively with this in mind (say 30 end on first target 2.5 additional, etc, again we can figure these numbers out, but these values are fair without OPing the power, idea is to get the power to be usable more often, 3 minute base rech is just too terrible for what it does). The amounts i gave as the suggestion were if the power retained it's .52 end cost. The value as well, you have to factor that you could use the power a lot more often as well, and as i mentioned, the numbers could be adjusted to match the rech/end per second etc to make the power appropriate. Edit: just have to reiterate based on your comment. That the point is ABSOLUTELY not to hinder the power, and is 100% to improve it. We could even just reduce the recharge to 60s and adjust the equal value end with more on the first target and be done with it given how absolutely TERRIBLE and unbalanced on the low end that recharge is for the power. The point being, that adjusting it as a "larger damage aoe/end gain power" not being huge on both, but being in a good spot, is where the power should be. As it stands again, if nothing else changed, the powers recharge should be 60 seconds cause 180s is just WAYYYY too long for what it does. Fixing all the stats concurrently, would still have the power offering much more endurance than other sets provide. If having the power IMPROVED ruins your character, then not only does that not make sense, but you severely did not build your character properly.

I'm honestly flabbergasted consume at least wasn't fixed in the last round of fire armor changes, especially to the super huge burn nerf even with some off the other additions. But consume never should have been on a 3 minute timer, it's quite absurd especially given that the recovery only lasts 15 seconds, and every other armor sets similar power is on a 60s timer. Same with DC which the devs kinda overcomplicated trying to fix it with the set. Consume should be on the 60s base recharge (most of the others also grant decent defense as a bonus, so it having the end drain resistance/max hp still keeps it in line with those at that recharge). This would go the same on blaster secondaries too, and double the rech on epics (6 minute rech for this power is just extra omg dumb) Dark consumption is similar, but since it's focus should be more on having it as an attack, the recharge should be lowered down to maybe 40 seconds. It should also have the -to hit that other dark melee/blast powers have. Then given the lower recharge, (but way more than a regular aoe attack), double it's damage, move more of the end gain on the first target, and adjust the end gain per target accordingly for this and it's new lower recharge. Something like 20 end for the first target, and 2 per additional target would make sense (it's currently 25 end per target flat which is already kind of weird like other aoe end powers on the armors since you can't really get more than like 115% end with accolades and bonuses so what's the point of that value past the first 4ish targets) And on the subject, TOF and spinning strike if not changed to it's proper pbaoe instead of taoe, NEED their radii increased by at least one more foot. 6 is right at that cutoff where even if mobs are fully gathered around you, it can't extend enough to hit those on the other side of you from the enemy you are targetting. This is noticeable when you use thunderstrike, which is 7ft instead of 6, yet can hit enemies that are on that other side of you. But spinning strike regardless, really should just be a pbaoe, as it's animation even displays. Likewise, given the added benefits that consume, energy absorption, energy drain etc have, power sink on elec armor should also come with something extra, like added regen or max HP.

The speed debuff on it's own is literally almost nothing, it needs the high winds for any effect, but even then the overall slow that is offered is not really ever enough on its own. The scatter is just again the dumb ai scatter when there are lots of dot or damage numbers on an enemy, and just them trying to get to you in general. Problem here, is storm is easily the worst blast set for trying to get enemies to stay in a tight group. Using jet stream to try to push them into storm cell sure, but its a wide area and most any other aoes, even normal 15ft radius ones, are not going to hit most of the mob. While chain lightning (and scramble minds which makes no sense since it chains target to target, not spread out), has it's use here, which I wish they'd fix the proc coding as it won't proc hardly at all (scramble too which again is really dumb, shoulda just stayed a normal chain so it'd at least proc on the first target which chain should honestly too, and should still take ranged sets, this is where the proc coding fails when its a chain "aoe" versus, standard chain which goes target to target) any normal aoes are going to have a much harder time hitting targets. And I believe electrifying fences only has a 10ft radius, so that's going to be even worse. With storm, it just has crappy aoe plain and simple until they fix chain lightning and storm cell. And problem is, when you use other powers that aren't storm blast, your aoe output from storm blast goes even lower (compared to other normal sets with normal aoes who get the full damage effect when the power is used, ie not the weird proc tied to storm cell mechanic, as otherwise, it does zero damage when you're not using your storm powers.) Chain needing about half it's current recharge and end costs for reasons explained on the page before this one, and storm cell needing fixed via all attacks having 100% proc rate and a proper bump on its base accuracy. Cat 5 needs this too and a shorter lockout, though the damage can be lowered to match the new lockout time. (it's a nuke, i'd rather see the total mayhem of more lightning strikes when it's used even if each proc deals less, but this fix would lead to less wasted procs ie like a proc over-killing a minnion with 2% hp left, overall damage would be the same)

That's when it's a super intense focused blast. Just used that as an example to visualize it. With a breath though, it would be "aimed" at the initial target, but would still spread around it, esp if aimed near their feet. It easily 100% works and makes sense, and the set needs that. Edit: While it does make sense and works, at the VERY least, it makes ENOUGH sense, to give the set that, cause it REALLY needs it.

No it still makes sense as a Taoe. Your breath is more "focused" on the single target, and then spreads out on the ground (or off target) hitting enemies in a radius around it. It 100% would work and make sense like that. Also, longer cone wouldn't work, you're in MELEE as a MELEE AT. long doesn't do crap to add aoe when you're in melee on a narrow angle cone. Why it needs to just be the Taoe or swapped with combustion. I think making it the Taoe is the easiest route, though since the beginning it still should have had combustion instead. Just makes no sense.. Edit: To conceptualize, think of what it looks like when a blowtorch flame hits a flat surface and the flames spread outward form the center of impact. IE, Taoe

Then don't add it there, but at least swap it for combustion in the melee. This never should have been how fire melee was set up EVER to begin with. I never said to change BoF to be a pbaoe attack. I said a "T"aoe attack, centered around the target like touch of fear and thunderstrike are. (those need upped too esp tof/SS, and all melee IMO but esp those) with at least 10ft radius, range could be the same. This wouldn't change ANYTHING about the power except being a taoe instead of terrible cone, and it would still work as well with any theme. Regardless if they did that, they should really shave off some time on the cast time too, same with the blast set breaths (which has been known and may be getting passes next update with how they changed psy scream etc, all they'd have to do is either speed up the same animation, or shave off that "pulls head back first" part of it)

Who decided that? Cause they are completely and utterly stupid and wrong. The set has WAY too little aoe especially for being the main "damage" set. The set NEEDS another normal aoe via combustion (or making BoF taoe 10ft radius min). It's TERRIBLE and why i constantly try to make a fire melee scrapper, and always give shelve them because the aoe is just too piss poor. It NEEDS fixed, and the dumbest part, is that the fix is already there on the tank version via combustion. The set could just super easily have combustion instead of BoF. (The ONLY "reason" for BoF is for RP'ers, but that's still dumb. If you need a toon with that, go one of five other ATs that gets it. Don't completely ruin the set just for that. They could also whenever they get around to fixing hero epics, put fire breath in the epic too, but for the love of god get combustion back into the set instead of BoF!)

Lol, i mean especially on squishie hp, having it as a max hp buff and like, 150% regen wouldn't be that crazy, but it would be SO much better though that way buffing yourself, but also mainly making it an aoe buff, as it's single target buff is just utterly terrible in like 95% of scenarios especially with it's current rech/duration stats.

Or better yet, ditch scorch, move fire sword to tier 1 (with 1s cast like the axe tier 1 has now same thing) and then cremate at tier 2. That would be the ideal fire melee, and it'd still have breath of fire too that way.

100% yes, thoguh cremate is nicer than incinerate for that knockdown. I'd say they still should, either on top, or instead, give incinerate knockdown as well. But yes, i will never play a non-tank fire melee again until they get combustion. The aoe is just TERRIBLE.

We can certainly argue the results on aoe though. It's still completely stupid that they didn't change breath of fire for combustion. The set, which is supposed to be THE damage set, is actually one of the worst for aoe damage which completely goes against how fire should be. They really should swap combustion for breath of fire, it's fairly outrageous that it's not there on non-tanks tbh. At the very least, in additional to lowering the cast time on BoF, if it HAD to stay there for some reason, it'd at least make sense as a Taoe, that explodes around the target with a 10ft minimum radius. But still, combustion should be there in the set. So dumb...

I mean, i could live with the shields not being boostable. However, they 100% should change frostwork into a pbaoe buff with some regen added to it. One, it's just super annoying and most of the time most people have their hp buffed or capped with bonuses/accolades/dull pain etc. So the additional hp is often like nothing. Plus cold doesn't have much in the way of self-survival. This would help to keep the cold user alive as well.

It's been mentioned since the dawn of time, and still somehow keeps getting overlooked, but PLEASE fix veats to let us color their powers. Obviously this is biggest for fortunatas and their psy powers, but come on, it's been long enough. Edit: Throwing this in here cause it's still needed as well, but to allow us to color the weapon powers as well. This means the sparks of any weapon that come when you attack, the glowing aura that chases the target when powers like cleave, crowd control, and golden dragonfly are used, and pretty much every arrow power like acid arrow, disruption arrow, BLAZING ARROW, glue arrow, EMP ARROW, etc.

The -defense on fire melee was 100% specifically to nerf fire farming. The addition to melee for us was just a bonus no matter what they say. Fire melee ST was always fine enough, but was able to use the shortening of GFS (which they really need to do to GiS too), and the KD to cremate was kinda needed with the set having no mitigation. But the main thing they needed to do was change breath of fire to combustion. Still one of the dumbest things they ever did was revamp the set but didn't change that. 100% the reason i've done 3 fire melee scrappers and can't finish them cause the aoe is atrocious, which is absolutely dumb considering fire is supposed to be THE damage set. Utterly terrible...