WindDemon21

Can we please for the love of god get this fixed for next patch...

It's REALLLLY not. Not with it's cast time, and CERTAINLY not with it's end/rech values. That's the whole issue right there. For it's newly nerfed damage, it's just barely more damage than broadsword's slice, but it also has less dpa than katana's golden dragonfly. Factoring these in, don't forget it still only hits 5 targets. It's previous cone had no problems hitting those, it only now kinda has to be the mini-aoe so it works with, and not AGAINST the pull-in with axe cyclone. 15 end and 15 rech are WAYYYY too much for this power now. Granting it's damage it SHOULD have about an 8.5s recharge and about 8 endurance. If you factor the set having it work with cyclone, it could then maybe have about a 10 second recharge, but 15 is WAYYYY freaking horrible for this power and really ruins the set. Fyi, slice is a tier THREE for almost the same damage, and it's -defense also means it helps you hit, but also that it takes an achilles proc to provide even more damage. Like I said factoring the set as a whole a 10s rech 9ish end would be reasonable, but 15 for both is just WAYY too terrible, and needs fixed ASAP. Again, it still only hits 5 targets don't forget, and it's KD chance is only 50%, so only knocking down 2 maybe 3 targets with it isn't anything to brag home about at ALL. So thinking the power is anywhere near NOT vastly underpowered right now is just foolish.

It is, but can also be done with any primary not storm specifically. If you really wanna see those dot's do ice/ta corrupter, or at least fire/ta where the rain will automatically light the slick for you.

The scourge is one thing with it yeah. Still wishing they have this front-lined to fix at least the chain lightning rech/end values to 10ish (and fix it to at least proc on the single target and used ranged IO's like other chains do SO it's more like ST and aoe rather than the just piss poor aoe that it is now), and proc rate of attacks to 100%, and thus changing intensify as well to perma just to hit and minor damage boost something like 90rech/60 duration for the next patch. REALLY want to do another stormy proper but ughhh is it just so poor on these issues! Lockout on c5 should be lowered to like 3s too IMO even if the damage of the strikes is lowered a bit to compensate.

Ah right i see was when i was configuring the defense ones. that one on minnions should be on the bruiser among the rag's too. Here I updated it: Thugs Traps - Mastermind (Thugs).mbd

Really? I'll double check but shouldn't mids doesn't like that occurance lol. Not a big deal if so the build wouldn't change besides that enhancement I'll check this afternoon when work is slower.

It's probably easily the best combo for a MM, plus also the easiest to make good quickly too with all the stacking lt leadership, your leaderships, and farsight especially boosted, Plus chrono shift helping perma gang war, and how powerboosting farsight can time perfectly with casting the gang wars. Plus, you can temp selection the boss tank, and the arsonist so they take the main aggro and don't die hardly ever as well. Pretty sure that's my most updated build but let me know if power/slot choice is missing. Thugs Time - Mastermind (Thugs).mxd

Also when spamming the tier 1 blasts, don't forget to put that theft of the essence +end proc in life drain, helps a lot. I'd probably slot it 3 theft of the essence, the proc, acc/heal, and acc/end/heal boosted, and 3 purples the damage and damage/end, and damage proc.

Or heck even updated to now would be super swell 😛

Penumbral: Sucks, but most all secondaries have this standard tier 1 immobilize, Penumbral is actually one of the worst because it has one of the longest cast times at 1.67s. Also 5.25% - to hit, which scales down to 4.2% or 3.41% to only a single target at that huge cast time, is really not worth the tradeoff and certainly not worth fitting in your attack chain. ToB: as stated is one of the biggest issues with the set. The fact that you HAVE to cast it just to get the sustain is a big point of contention when it's only doing the same sustain that almost every other set has as a toggle on and forget - doesn't impact blasting time power. And the other click ones, are able to be done out of battle and not hinder anything. What you say is good, is actually just the same thing other sets get, but better. Soul Drain: This is arguably pretty much the only reason to go /dark. Even for what it does, it also still has its drawbacks versus just a standard aim or power like shinobi/targetting drone/reach for the limit. But at that, even in a perfect scenario where you're perma-ing it on full mobs, it still has the melee-risk, and means you can't use it prior to nuking/alpha volleying from safety. It's fairly balanced around all regards, though QoL wise I'd still call for a 90s rech versus a 120s one. But again in all regards that this is about the sole reason to go /dark, it doesn't make up for all the drawbacks of the set. /dark needs fixed, that's the end of the contention there. All things the same, for the VERY few who think it's fine, there are MANY who think it needs fixed, and regardless, fixing the set, would not hinder those few who think it's "ok" as is.

Yeah i figured that's why not, but still could have sworn it used to actually proc well before at some point on the chains. Either way it should code somehow so procs work on the chains, really makes me angry since i just drew up a whole build idea for rad/psy defender going to use the devastation hold proc in scramble thoughts to stack with choking cloud but i'm betting that won't do crap now :/. And regardless completely, they should have the end drain and -recovery hit the additional targets in the chain as well.

I could have sworn that jolting chain used to proc well on the additional targets in the chain? It REALLY should elec control kinda needs it to. at the very least if it won't they should make the chain also do the -recovery/-end that the initial target gets, that's just dumb. But it really should accept the procs down the chain better.

That's all being chocked up to dark blast though really, not /dark. Again, if you're saying you skip most of the powers, that really means that the set isn't up to par lol.

Except then you're not slotting heal/end into it which is supposed to be it's main use. Bad. Again, IE make sustain it's own, separate the TOF type power. Truth be told I don't even like the damage auras being part of the sustain in dynamo/CA, but it definitely makes more sense and at least doesn't have an end cost though. But this type of power is just bad, as I'm pretty sure any current numbers would still show /dark at the absolute bottom of the blaster secondaries list. It was in 2020 besides /nin, I'm sure it still is, which again, this is the MAIN reason it is so.

Right, not needing to compare it for much was just stating. But regarding the sustain, it definitely should do it's job on it's own and not be tied to a single target control power. If the power were aoe at least then it'd be something comparable to its usage type, similar to how drain psyche is ok because it's aoe and does so much more, but for this power, on a single target mez that is often not used/needed it goes against the nature of the sustains, and like i said, might as well just have its own separate single target control power in the set, and leave the sustain to do it's job on its own. Since there is already a precedence for the aoe damage aura to also be the sustain like in dynamo and cauterizing aura, there's really no reason they couldn't at least just merge the two and then have this single target mez power work on it's own, which also allows for actual mez slotting compared to this power which you need to slot for the regen/recovery factor so can't really resolve the power to itself anyway. Point being, that it can't be used when starting a mob without interrupting your chain and leaving you open versus using another power to kill/aoe/etc, but then using it after also means you're not getting the benefit of the sustain regen/recovery during the fight as well. It's just a bad design even if you don't have an issue with it, MANY others do. Just look at the current statistics on how few actually take /dark on blasters, this is the main reason why.

Right, this self heal, in addition to all the aoe, is really the main reason when looking at water blast pairings IMO too. On blasters this works very well with secondaries that offer the absorb shield as opposed to regen, like water/ice, which is easily one of the all-time best pairings for water blast IMO. On defender/corruptors, it fits very well with those non-heal focused support sets as well. I did a FF/water defender and that was just nuts between dehydrate and the 2 defender heal/absorb procs. Even more-so now that water jet won't lock out as that's your main proccer. Likewise, also works well with sonic (though sonic res def needs some love), but also Cold, STORM is a big one, as is trick arrow as well. Poison though, well, it's still poison and REALLY badly need the TA treatment. For how awesome steam spray is, which is a cone, you really don't want to be in melee that much with water blast outside of maybe one main power to jump in, use, and jump back out with.

Just pointing out, it's in the secondary, so you compare it to build up, not aim. But It is pretty much fine, I'd always say for a 90s rech vs 120s one though just for ease of use, can be flagged to not stack. Knowing how to use the sustain isn't the issue, as much as the requirement of needing to cast it on the enemy to benefit from it. At the very least it's a huge annoyance, and using the control part of it, can just as easily be served but that control aspects being it's own power, and merging the sustain with death shroud. Also, stating how you think it's fine yet are skipping a lot of the powers, doesn't really coincide that the set is ok lol. You may not mind it, but the set does clearly have these issues for most people.

The problem is needing a target to cast on which means you can't cast before/out of battle and it eats up cast time at the beginning of fights that should be used to alpha strike and such. Regarding your issue with it, they can simply have a min-fx option and that problem is easily solved.

Whirlpool does a good bit yeah, more overall than a normal aoe I wouldn't say but also depends on how you're encountering mobs though. IF you're fighting where it's timed that you're casting it at the start of every fight then it does a good bit. Rain powers in general ie rain of fire, whirlpool, and ice storm though even back on live i've always said they really should have a 30s base rech not 60 (and thus 60 for the epic ones) They're useful, but not so much that they are really ok at 60s IMO, but as they are the closest thing to storm cell per use they were the best things to judge around.

Lol was trying to be as detailed/specific as i could haha

Ok well that would certainly explain why it currently seems SO terrible and isn't getting enough procs and even less useful as especially not being able to determine which enemy gets the proc can lead it to be heavily wasted. Perhaps that should be looked at first. Again on top of it's opportunity tax of having to use storm blast powers rather than just providing it's own damage, the closest thing to look at regarding it's damage would be rain powers (which though not as big also have their own -speed and fear for mitigation effects). So what you're saying is that at MAX even with 100% proc chances, and let's say gust is fixed to a 1s activation time, You'd be using direct strike I believe quick form is 1.33s, and one of the other two, or chain, which we'll use (assuming shorter end/rech fixed) cause it's the next lowest cast time for proccing) at 1.17s, IE, trying to get the best procs per second using gust every other attack which would be 1.125s avg cast: 75.07 is the max damage per proc, per second. (which again, whether focused, split, or spread is how much damage max per proc) So that's 66.73 damage per second. (again, if ONLY using storm blast powers) A rain power, we'll look at whirlpool since it's in the middle of the rains: 131.46 damage over 15s, hits 16 targets = 140.224 dps So on big mobs rains are vastly superior for damage, especially at current as they evenly hit the mob guaranteed where as mentioned above the strikes can hit targets, lets say a minnion that would die with your next jet stream anyway, and be completely wasted (that's also a BIG factor that should be considered as well, ie, would be better if cell procs were only the split value but hit more targets for example) Now let's look at the average of what happens when the minnions die and you're left with lt's and bosses after usually about 3 seconds after the aoe/cone are cast, which i believe are often about 10 min's in the mob, then like 4 lts and 2 bosses. So that's 52.584dps (but don't forget, that before this it also helped to kill off the minnions, which storm cell hardly does anything for that except somewhat currently for how terrible chain lightning is, and except the average conditions where it fills in on the weaker damage of chain lightning. So at this point only when the mob is down to the lt's and bosses does storm cell outpace it, but this is again only in a 100% proc chance scenario. This is also still, assuming you are doing nothing but storm blasting. At this point, given the mitigation/debuff, and fact that most if it is useless at the start of the mob assuming its much higher chance of hitting minnions, I'd say it's about even for what it should do. I could maybe see a tiny damage reduction, but would rather see the damage evened out to be all the same proc with that 5 target cap more similar to c5, thus allowing you to knowingly use a non-storm blast attack during the lockout period, ie every other attack. However currently, this is in the best case scenario, of using direct strike, cloudburst, and alternating hailstones and chain lighting every other attack: 1.33+1.67+1.67+1.17/4= 1.46s avg cast, at 60+60+60+40/4 = 55% avg proc chances. That's only 28.28 damage per second. WELL below a rain, but more focused when the targets are small even at 4 targets which is the max spread, (less targets means if spread hits damage is wasted, same with split so that also goes against it). At 4 targets currently: Whirlpool: 35.056 versus cell's 28.28, still beating it out 3 targets: 26.292dps vs 29.47dps, so only at 3 targets or less is the cell beating out any rain power and technically you can mostly perma a rain power, though often you wouldn't if only 3 targets left unless they were really tough, so cell helps a little more extended past 15s, though most fights further on don't last that long, or if they do, not much longer where cell makes up that much more of a difference. This is also at full optimal proccing rotation, not accounting for using gust/jet stream which lower your proc chances currently, and if you're using your other sets powers which drive those numbers even further. In normal play, this means that it is doing just god awful damage. T Currently cell, is just really, really bad for any reliable damage. (which Wavicle's chart showed, on just storm blast alone, knowing how bad chain lightning is too, you can see that storms aoe is bad which means storm cell is doing even LESS compared to a normal aoe set) I also think while it's great to have the extra effects of the attacks in storm cell, they should also be viable on their own when cell is not up. As a set, having it's damage be less for some of the mitigation is fine but it's also way lower, and on top of that, chain especially, is also worse-stattted on top of that, so it's not justified on it's own, or as a whole set either, hence all the suggested fixes. Personally, I'd much rather see more procs (while also mentioned values need adjusted to be a bit better, but even at the 100% proc rate, it's still about average for the power just itself, and the set would still be lower on damage), but also less reliability on it for those times you don't want to recast it just yet. Fixing chain is also the second part of that, to which even with fixed actual stats by lowering the end/rech keeping the same damage, it still has the issues of not proccing, and missing half or all of the mob often due to the way it chains. There is also the opportunity costs vs using your other sets powers, the cost of the cell-strikes hitting targets where the damage doesn't matter anyway, and that the set generally has zero burst damage compared to other sets which also make it lag behind, and the extra end cost currently by being behind (ie big part of inefficiency relying on procs and inconsistent aoe on chain). When you account all this, while some of the mitigation is nice, it doesn't currently make up enough for the damage/endurance issues and reliance on only storm blasting, which is where I'd say to start off, number one, making all the attacks proc 100% and normalize the lightning strike damage and set to 5 targets (ie about the damage of the split) and the splits KD chances, keeping the 2s lockout, which actually given the powers cast times ends up being more like a 2.5-3s lockout, and then two, reduce chain's end/rech values to closer to 8end/10s rech. I think you/anyone would notice a big improvement on the set doing so, while still not anywhere near overpowering it, and it's never going to have that burst damage like other sets.

No you have them backwards. The smaller debuff is the location power itself. The larger debuff is the high winds proc. You mentioned crits, which is what scourge is basically. The only other "crit" that exists on these types of AT's are with /ninja blaster, even then, that still shows up in the combat log when a crit occurs. So that was not a factor.

There are a lot of factors that can go into that. While not recorded, I've been doing exactly that testing storm mob to mob. I know on the original beta thread Puma has done that as well. I don't mind that it's slower, but at a good bit, plus how it factors on the end cost is a really big thing. Even if the damage stayed exactly the same, the more procs would still be preferable on the mitigation side, and even with everything being the same, due to it doing less aoe damage, results in more end needed to take down a mob, which I'd also easily say is probably the biggest frustration I've had with the set. That largely comes down to the proc chances of the attacks, and chain lightnings stats as mentioned before. There also seems to be something fundamentally bugged with storm cell, which maybe that is what is also resulting in the procs seeming extra bad. Here's an example, long-snipe direct strike is 80% proc chance, with intensify, that is 100% that it should guarantee full proccing. Storm cell, outside of misses, then should be guaranteed to hit 7 targets, but as you can see, it's not doing so. Take away *maybe* one target for REALLY bad RNG, and it should still have hit 6 targets with the lightning: (god for the life of me i can't figure out why i can't seem to record again). I tried it 3 times in a row with different mobs in PP that were close together. Twice in a row Laying cell, cast intensify, cast slow snipe I only got 2 strikes to hit other targets, the 3rd time It hit 4. I HAVE proved it, several times over, I actually proved it before you even just posted this because it's literally right there in that image that you're responding to. You do clearly get that these numbers are so high because I was testing on minnions in atlas as to not skew any data with resistances and misses and such right? The size of the number doesn't matter in what I showed you. What does matter is that the numbers for the additional targets are less than the initial and scaling down ones. It also doesn't say scourge on that image anywhere, so clearly that was not in play. Damage procs can also hit any target in the chain, but due to the coding on this type of chain, it procs incredibly terribly, so there is no point in using procs for it.

It doesn't now because it's a power that has such a short duration versus powers that have extended duration. This has also been explained ad nauseam. Have you ACTUALLY even played the set or tested the power? Just because it has bad description, doesn't mean that it's not working EXACTLY as I've explained. Seriously look at the floating numbers, or just look at your combat log. I'm not even going to bother quoting the rest of what you said because it's all so terribly wrong you clearly have not actually tested any of these things and are SO far out of knowing anything about what we've been discussing.

I've been playing it fairly constantly since it went live, that's why I keep finding/having these issues with it lol. Those things that I just pointed out are specifically what I've noticed when playing the set and why it just feels off, and what would fix it. Why it constantly seems lagging, and what and why me and many others are getting constantly frustrated with the set even though it looks beautiful. (on that note, just had another person in game mention not playing another storm blast toon until it's fixed, when literally all I said prior was "have you tried the new storm blast yet 😕) As mentioned the single target damage is mostly fine except those couple small things I mentioned regarding outside of storm cell. It's issues lie mainly in the aoe/proccing. I'm more than fine with it not being top tier dps, but it also feels terrible having it not proc enough, and having it's main aoe power be severely underpowered as well, which also results in it costing more end to take down a mob which is a big part of where the end issues come in.