WindDemon21

Same thin The end gain was the balancing. It's not hurting the end gain overall, it's actually improving it in all scenarios over time, even down to 1 target (i know you didn't see my last post before this one, refer to that) Honestly, if it's easier, keep the damage the same. Regardless the main thing is the power needs to be more usable, more often, and in more situations, rather than the terrible stats it has now. This definitely WILL NOT handicap anything, as given the shorter recharge, you can use the power more often. If you look at the last post I made, it's a net gain in endurance in all scenarios.

IE: Current DC: 180s rech/25 end gain per target, x10 targets, would be at a simple 60s recharge for 8.33 end/target times 10 targets is 83.33 end total. Now one of the big things is the use on a full mob versus when the mob dies down and you still need that end. Current version is HORRIBLE at this, especially a million times over how terribly stupid that 3 minute base recharge is, meaning that it's also almost dumb it even does damage, cause it can't much be used well at all for that, and as an end power, its also too long of a recharge for what it does that i've ever been able to justify getting it for either, or both combined. Now I'd actually still vote around 40 seconds similar to the use of savage leap as a damage power with end as the benefit, again, moving the main portion of end to the first target, this still lets it be more useable than it's current version in all scenarios whether versus 1, 4, or 10 targets as the damage it does would actually be useful to use constantly as an attack as well instead of trying to wait for the perfect moment when you need it. So let's go with that, the 83.33 at 60 seconds, to 40 seconds so 2/3 is about 55 end, so that's = 30 end on first target, and 2.5 per target for the low end gain stat x10 would be 55 end per cast on a full mob. So at face value, it's roughly unslotted full end in 80 seconds on a full mob, vs the 180s unslotted with the current version. IE yes, improved because it is currently TERRIBLE. Now to go the other scenario, where this current version is higher on all targets, which gets you to full in we'll say 5 targets given accolades, bonuses, superior conditioning etc. At 5 targets, that's still full end, and the new version would be 30 + 12.5 = 42.5, so roughly 100s equivalent versus the current 180s version, so not quite as good as versus a full mob, but still better than it's current version over time. And ultimately down to 1 target, like vs an AV, that's 30 end, versus current version's 25 end, and on a much shorter more useful timer, meaning the power actually matters for these fights as an end helper, and it's more useful all around having it up faster as an attack as well. A net gain all around, which is exactly what this power desperately needs. That said, yes it should still be calculated as more of an attack with an end bonus beyond these suggested stats. while the set could use it (depending if they increase the radius on tof at least), It would still be a pretty big help on end that other sets don't offer. If you can't build with that helping you out, then you really don't have any hope lol, but as it stands, the power is just TOO terrible at that 3 minute recharge to ever factor it in to any build i've ever made, let alone even trying to devote slots to it and getting a terrible return.

Yes I know, the statement was with that all factored in, the recovery portion was pointed out more of like, why is that even bothered if it's not really useful for such a short duration, hence where more of the focus lies on fixing the powers base recharge to the more appropriate 60s recharge. (fyi, other sets that have these end gain powers still have end drain resistnace (or can cap defense so you don't get hit by them in the first place), just not in the same power so the bonus of the end drain resistance in THIS power alone, is fairly moot, hence again the focus on fixing the power itself via the 60s.

At which it's still WAY too terrible with that 3 minute recharge. That's nuke territory, not just an end gain power. And you're missing what I said, those values estimates btw, would be if given its current .52 end cost. As an attack with lesser end gain, that balances out for its recharge time/end gain. In this scenario, that's also given that more of the end is on the first target (the 2 end is kinda more just to let it still do something on additional). If those numbers don't jive with you, then please suggest something that works for the power, but 3 minutes is ABSURD for this power for it's recharge, and there is simply nothing you could say that would justify this. The devs even agree, but only left it as is currently due to not wanting to waste more time on the power amid conflicting thread posts about it so they could roll out that issue when they did. We're talking fixing the power, numbers can be calculated, but as it stands the power is TERRIBLE with its damage, recharge time, aoe/target cap etc. And needs fixed. If you can't see that and see that there is a way to fix it and make it work, then you really shouldn't be posting here. Also, back on the penalizing, if the powers end cost WAS going to go up, then the gain portion would be higher respectively with this in mind (say 30 end on first target 2.5 additional, etc, again we can figure these numbers out, but these values are fair without OPing the power, idea is to get the power to be usable more often, 3 minute base rech is just too terrible for what it does). The amounts i gave as the suggestion were if the power retained it's .52 end cost. The value as well, you have to factor that you could use the power a lot more often as well, and as i mentioned, the numbers could be adjusted to match the rech/end per second etc to make the power appropriate. Edit: just have to reiterate based on your comment. That the point is ABSOLUTELY not to hinder the power, and is 100% to improve it. We could even just reduce the recharge to 60s and adjust the equal value end with more on the first target and be done with it given how absolutely TERRIBLE and unbalanced on the low end that recharge is for the power. The point being, that adjusting it as a "larger damage aoe/end gain power" not being huge on both, but being in a good spot, is where the power should be. As it stands again, if nothing else changed, the powers recharge should be 60 seconds cause 180s is just WAYYYY too long for what it does. Fixing all the stats concurrently, would still have the power offering much more endurance than other sets provide. If having the power IMPROVED ruins your character, then not only does that not make sense, but you severely did not build your character properly.

I'm honestly flabbergasted consume at least wasn't fixed in the last round of fire armor changes, especially to the super huge burn nerf even with some off the other additions. But consume never should have been on a 3 minute timer, it's quite absurd especially given that the recovery only lasts 15 seconds, and every other armor sets similar power is on a 60s timer. Same with DC which the devs kinda overcomplicated trying to fix it with the set. Consume should be on the 60s base recharge (most of the others also grant decent defense as a bonus, so it having the end drain resistance/max hp still keeps it in line with those at that recharge). This would go the same on blaster secondaries too, and double the rech on epics (6 minute rech for this power is just extra omg dumb) Dark consumption is similar, but since it's focus should be more on having it as an attack, the recharge should be lowered down to maybe 40 seconds. It should also have the -to hit that other dark melee/blast powers have. Then given the lower recharge, (but way more than a regular aoe attack), double it's damage, move more of the end gain on the first target, and adjust the end gain per target accordingly for this and it's new lower recharge. Something like 20 end for the first target, and 2 per additional target would make sense (it's currently 25 end per target flat which is already kind of weird like other aoe end powers on the armors since you can't really get more than like 115% end with accolades and bonuses so what's the point of that value past the first 4ish targets) And on the subject, TOF and spinning strike if not changed to it's proper pbaoe instead of taoe, NEED their radii increased by at least one more foot. 6 is right at that cutoff where even if mobs are fully gathered around you, it can't extend enough to hit those on the other side of you from the enemy you are targetting. This is noticeable when you use thunderstrike, which is 7ft instead of 6, yet can hit enemies that are on that other side of you. But spinning strike regardless, really should just be a pbaoe, as it's animation even displays. Likewise, given the added benefits that consume, energy absorption, energy drain etc have, power sink on elec armor should also come with something extra, like added regen or max HP.

The speed debuff on it's own is literally almost nothing, it needs the high winds for any effect, but even then the overall slow that is offered is not really ever enough on its own. The scatter is just again the dumb ai scatter when there are lots of dot or damage numbers on an enemy, and just them trying to get to you in general. Problem here, is storm is easily the worst blast set for trying to get enemies to stay in a tight group. Using jet stream to try to push them into storm cell sure, but its a wide area and most any other aoes, even normal 15ft radius ones, are not going to hit most of the mob. While chain lightning (and scramble minds which makes no sense since it chains target to target, not spread out), has it's use here, which I wish they'd fix the proc coding as it won't proc hardly at all (scramble too which again is really dumb, shoulda just stayed a normal chain so it'd at least proc on the first target which chain should honestly too, and should still take ranged sets, this is where the proc coding fails when its a chain "aoe" versus, standard chain which goes target to target) any normal aoes are going to have a much harder time hitting targets. And I believe electrifying fences only has a 10ft radius, so that's going to be even worse. With storm, it just has crappy aoe plain and simple until they fix chain lightning and storm cell. And problem is, when you use other powers that aren't storm blast, your aoe output from storm blast goes even lower (compared to other normal sets with normal aoes who get the full damage effect when the power is used, ie not the weird proc tied to storm cell mechanic, as otherwise, it does zero damage when you're not using your storm powers.) Chain needing about half it's current recharge and end costs for reasons explained on the page before this one, and storm cell needing fixed via all attacks having 100% proc rate and a proper bump on its base accuracy. Cat 5 needs this too and a shorter lockout, though the damage can be lowered to match the new lockout time. (it's a nuke, i'd rather see the total mayhem of more lightning strikes when it's used even if each proc deals less, but this fix would lead to less wasted procs ie like a proc over-killing a minnion with 2% hp left, overall damage would be the same)

That's when it's a super intense focused blast. Just used that as an example to visualize it. With a breath though, it would be "aimed" at the initial target, but would still spread around it, esp if aimed near their feet. It easily 100% works and makes sense, and the set needs that. Edit: While it does make sense and works, at the VERY least, it makes ENOUGH sense, to give the set that, cause it REALLY needs it.

No it still makes sense as a Taoe. Your breath is more "focused" on the single target, and then spreads out on the ground (or off target) hitting enemies in a radius around it. It 100% would work and make sense like that. Also, longer cone wouldn't work, you're in MELEE as a MELEE AT. long doesn't do crap to add aoe when you're in melee on a narrow angle cone. Why it needs to just be the Taoe or swapped with combustion. I think making it the Taoe is the easiest route, though since the beginning it still should have had combustion instead. Just makes no sense.. Edit: To conceptualize, think of what it looks like when a blowtorch flame hits a flat surface and the flames spread outward form the center of impact. IE, Taoe

Then don't add it there, but at least swap it for combustion in the melee. This never should have been how fire melee was set up EVER to begin with. I never said to change BoF to be a pbaoe attack. I said a "T"aoe attack, centered around the target like touch of fear and thunderstrike are. (those need upped too esp tof/SS, and all melee IMO but esp those) with at least 10ft radius, range could be the same. This wouldn't change ANYTHING about the power except being a taoe instead of terrible cone, and it would still work as well with any theme. Regardless if they did that, they should really shave off some time on the cast time too, same with the blast set breaths (which has been known and may be getting passes next update with how they changed psy scream etc, all they'd have to do is either speed up the same animation, or shave off that "pulls head back first" part of it)

Who decided that? Cause they are completely and utterly stupid and wrong. The set has WAY too little aoe especially for being the main "damage" set. The set NEEDS another normal aoe via combustion (or making BoF taoe 10ft radius min). It's TERRIBLE and why i constantly try to make a fire melee scrapper, and always give shelve them because the aoe is just too piss poor. It NEEDS fixed, and the dumbest part, is that the fix is already there on the tank version via combustion. The set could just super easily have combustion instead of BoF. (The ONLY "reason" for BoF is for RP'ers, but that's still dumb. If you need a toon with that, go one of five other ATs that gets it. Don't completely ruin the set just for that. They could also whenever they get around to fixing hero epics, put fire breath in the epic too, but for the love of god get combustion back into the set instead of BoF!)

Lol, i mean especially on squishie hp, having it as a max hp buff and like, 150% regen wouldn't be that crazy, but it would be SO much better though that way buffing yourself, but also mainly making it an aoe buff, as it's single target buff is just utterly terrible in like 95% of scenarios especially with it's current rech/duration stats.

Or better yet, ditch scorch, move fire sword to tier 1 (with 1s cast like the axe tier 1 has now same thing) and then cremate at tier 2. That would be the ideal fire melee, and it'd still have breath of fire too that way.

100% yes, thoguh cremate is nicer than incinerate for that knockdown. I'd say they still should, either on top, or instead, give incinerate knockdown as well. But yes, i will never play a non-tank fire melee again until they get combustion. The aoe is just TERRIBLE.

We can certainly argue the results on aoe though. It's still completely stupid that they didn't change breath of fire for combustion. The set, which is supposed to be THE damage set, is actually one of the worst for aoe damage which completely goes against how fire should be. They really should swap combustion for breath of fire, it's fairly outrageous that it's not there on non-tanks tbh. At the very least, in additional to lowering the cast time on BoF, if it HAD to stay there for some reason, it'd at least make sense as a Taoe, that explodes around the target with a 10ft minimum radius. But still, combustion should be there in the set. So dumb...

I mean, i could live with the shields not being boostable. However, they 100% should change frostwork into a pbaoe buff with some regen added to it. One, it's just super annoying and most of the time most people have their hp buffed or capped with bonuses/accolades/dull pain etc. So the additional hp is often like nothing. Plus cold doesn't have much in the way of self-survival. This would help to keep the cold user alive as well.

It's been mentioned since the dawn of time, and still somehow keeps getting overlooked, but PLEASE fix veats to let us color their powers. Obviously this is biggest for fortunatas and their psy powers, but come on, it's been long enough. Edit: Throwing this in here cause it's still needed as well, but to allow us to color the weapon powers as well. This means the sparks of any weapon that come when you attack, the glowing aura that chases the target when powers like cleave, crowd control, and golden dragonfly are used, and pretty much every arrow power like acid arrow, disruption arrow, BLAZING ARROW, glue arrow, EMP ARROW, etc.

The -defense on fire melee was 100% specifically to nerf fire farming. The addition to melee for us was just a bonus no matter what they say. Fire melee ST was always fine enough, but was able to use the shortening of GFS (which they really need to do to GiS too), and the KD to cremate was kinda needed with the set having no mitigation. But the main thing they needed to do was change breath of fire to combustion. Still one of the dumbest things they ever did was revamp the set but didn't change that. 100% the reason i've done 3 fire melee scrappers and can't finish them cause the aoe is atrocious, which is absolutely dumb considering fire is supposed to be THE damage set. Utterly terrible...

It's not a knock, it's a repel. Which is utterly terrible IMO. It's the main reason I'll never do fire blast on a sentinel. Too damn annoying and that power is too key to the ST damage and proccing too. Edit: Yes it would be 100000% better as a knockdown or even a knockback, rather than repel. God i hate repel in attacks meant for damage...

No it's not a bug, it's a known issue with the way the coding is for resist powers and damage. They tried to fix this at *some* point in the past and IIRC it caused completely bogus issues.

They also need to make powerboost work with regen and recovery powers. It SHOULD work with resist powers, but i know that is a hard "not possible" with current spaghetti code stupidly. On that note, it *could* be possible to work around that by instead of boosting the value itself, if it would somehow simply APPLY a second buff based on the value of the initial buff on top of it. I could still see this being a coding, or buggy nightmare, but at least it's an avenue to look into to get it to work with resist powers too. But definitely should be fixed to work for regen/recovery powers.

Can we like PLEEASSSSEEEE let us color the veat powers, Especially on fortunata psy powers. Mine NEEDS to have white for his theme, the purple just doesn't work, seriously why has this not been fixed yet?

I'm not saying it's a bad attack at all i think you misconstrued that. What I am saying, is that especially in /melee, it's the only attack that has any mitigation. I was explaining adding the cast time to the equation for relating to other sets that also provide mitigation. So for that being the only mitigation, figure about half recharge on these attacks for slotting/bonuses example, against each sets best mitigation (which obviously most sets have more than one, where savage melee, this is it's only one: Savage Melee: Vicious slash: 60s/6.17s x .67 chance = 6.52 kd's per minute Axe: Swoop: 60/7.23 x .7 chance = 5.81 kd's per minute Gash = 4.78KDPM Chop = 5.77KDPM = Total between these 3 16.36KDPM (obv true amount is better as for fluid chain you'll fit in cleave/beheader which also have chances) Bs: Disembowel = 6.62KDPM Headsplitter = 3.86 + 6.62 = 10.48KDPM (also not accounting for the massive defense boost of parry to help for mitigation as well) Claws: Focus: 13.73KDPM Shockwave: 8.51KDPM Even just using focus it's vastly superior, but can use shockwave in a single target too given the lower end costs, but it's not needed to blow savage out of the water. Shockwave is also one of the best aoe mitigations too which can't be discounted. Dual Blades: Arguably the weirdest to counter, mostly because vengeful slice has a HORRIBLY long animation time, which NEEDS reduced to about 1.43s which would mean instead of the 4 hits, it would just be the last two, which would be terribly easy to fix the animation to do just that (not coding wise not sure on that, just mean how it would look) 1k cuts: 5.56KDPM Current Vengeful Slice: 9.33KDPM Fixed Vengeful Slice: 11.05KDPM Still superior (vastly if they'd fix vengeful slice which they really should) But even current vengeful slice is still much more superior, it's just hard to count with this set cause it's such a horrible attack you won't use it. 1k cuts, can be used against a single target if you need the mitigation, but often won't, but then if you don't, it's not needed anyway. But as a set, it's a big wide cone that offers MUCH more mitigation than simply vicious slash alone. Dark Melee: Has no knockdown to make this an easy comparison. It does have the -to hit which is easy to stack 22.52% on a single target using just the damaging attacks alone, 33.77 if you use touch of fear as well. Plus the self heal offers extra "mitigation" via healing in way too. Plus once you're at 50, midnight grasp gets an extra really big hold proc from gravitational anchor (which stacks very often with the winter hold proc too to hold bosses, or pretty much guarantee anything under a boss will be held by it). All this together, against a single target the set pulls vastly far ahead of savage melee against a single target. Elec Melee: Another hard set to compare given an alternative mechanic. About the only set that savage pulls ahead of it against a single target unless you manage to drain that target. However, the set as a whole provides SOOOO much more mitigation than savage melee against a mob it's laughable. If needed against a single target, you could still rely on thunderstrike for 3.9 KDPM against a single target. And 3.7KDPM from Lightning Clap if your end can handle it. The set also can slot the power transfer heal procs in the attacks, and the call of the sandman 15% heal proc into Havoc Punch or Jacob's ladder for even more "healing" which gives the set better survival chances as well. Energy Melee: While it has no knockdowns, it has so much stun that a single target will be pretty much perma stunned, making it one of the best single target mitigation sets, aoe-wise, it does offer some aoe stun, but it's not a ton, but is more than savage melee offers. Fire Melee: Cremate: 10.91KDPM The set also offers just plain much more damage to a single target as well. However, TERRIBLY stupidly, I'd still prefer savage on the aoe aspect just because fire melee is really bad on aoe. FSC just doesn't cut it. It amazes and INFURIATES me, that they didn't swap breath of fire for combustion, for another aoe attack that should make fire melee stand out better, cause FSC alone is just horrid, and why i've done 3 fire melee scrappers now that all get shelved because the aoe is so terrible. They really do still need to fix that and swap BoF for combustion. But mitigation wise and damage wise, fire melee beats savage out tenfold. Ice Melee: Another somewhat hard tone to compare directly, but obviously it has much more mitigation than savage melee does between perma ice patch, freezing touch, and and -recharge. Another set that vastly needs a couple powers fixed though to fix it's terrible single target damage. (FF should be the .83s cast one punch like charged brawl, and GiS should be swapped back to the Ice Slash 1.83s cast time that it was before, the damage values of each attack are still on the lower end so it wouldn't be winning any contests, but it would help make it not so terribly horrid on the ST front)\ Katana: Soaring Dragon: 7.72KDPM Golden Dragonfly: 4.6KDPM + 7.72 = 12.32KDPM, plus obviously the massive defense boost of divine avalanche if you get that, but not needed in this comparison. Kinetic Melee: Quick Strike: 6.44 Focused Burst: 5 + 6.44 = 11.44 KDPM, the set also offers -damage, and a good bit of single target stun for more mitigation. It also offers a lot more aoe mitigation on a mob as well. Martial Arts: Crane Kick: 5.4 KDPM As a direct comparison it's a bit less, though this, soaring dragon, swoop, disembowel etc, you have to also factor in the longer mitigation of knockup/knockback if you don't put a KB-KD in them as well. MA also has several stuns against a single target for mitigation, aoe knockdown with dragon's tail (which still needs moved up to at least tier 6 IMO), slottable grav anchor hold proc in CaK, and for tank/brutes (which REALLY needs added to scrap/stalkers too!) they get a defense bonus to storm kick as well. Psionic Melee: Telekinetic Blow: 6.03KDPM So close on that alone, but the set also does -recharge, A mag 3 hold in greater psy blade, and stackable boggle. Aoe-wise, also has a really hefty aoe knockup attack for mitigation. (also needs its lockout removed) Rad Melee: Radioactive Smash: 3.96KDPM. So less on pure knockdown mitigation, but the set also has a strong self heal when used right, and some single target stuns. It has some stun in the aoe, but it's fairly poor so wouldn't count that much. Stone Melee: Stone Mallet: 5.35 Heavy Mallet: 5.9KDPM + 5.35 = 11.25KDPM Much more. The set also has some stun/hold to a single target (more if you proc Seismic Smash), but the set also VASTLY outpaces savage melee in mitigation between tremor and fault, though obviously savage wins out in aoe damage, stone beats it in single target as well. (esp if using procs) Spines: Another set that's hard to compare directly. Obviously doing well at aoe damage, the single target really needs to have Impale fixed to the 1.43s cast time that dominators have. Mitigation wise, it does have some -recharge, and then main direct mitigation via: Ripper: 4.69KDPM Where it's less to a single target, it also hits a decent cone's worth of that knockdown so overall is much more mitigation. Staff: Serpent's Reach: 7.66KDPM Sky Splitter: 10.81KDPM + 7.66 = 18.47KDPM Vastly superior on straight ST knockdown mitigation, but the set also has a defense bonus skill, and the massive benefits of the sky splitter buffs with main focus on the 83% recovery (much better than savage's end reduction on average even with the lockout being removed, comparable perhaps if you had a perma 5 stacks of blood which currently is only current unfixed hemorrhage version of savage melee, not assault) and 125%regen, or the 9.98%-13% global resistance it offers as well. The set also offers lots of aoe, but aoe knockdown as well. Street Justice: Heavy Blow: 5.04 Crushing Uppercut: 4.09KDPM + 5.04 = 9.13KDPM This set also offers aoe knockdown for more mitigation, but it's a somewhat tough comparison as a whole for how terrible the radius is on spinning strike. Another set where at least this one power REALLY needs fixed, if nothing else to have a wider radius, but the power doesn't even make sense as a taoe attack. Even the animation is spinning around your own body, and the power should most definitely be a Pbaoe like dragon's tail, not a Taoe like touch of fear. (both powers regardless really need even that one more foot like thunderstrike has, Its crazy noticeable how much more hindered they are at a 6ft radius versus 7, but for a melee set, they really should be 10ft for a melee taoe radius.) Titan Weapons: Follow Through: 9.84KDPM Vastly better, though it also has the odd mechanic of not being able to use out of momentum, even with that though, the KDPM would still be much higher for how often you have to just use crushing blow before it. The set also has titan sweep which is usable against a single target for knockdown, and defensive sweep for a defense boost power. Overall the set also has MUCH more aoe knockdown for vastly better mitigation as well. War Mace: Jawbreaker: 6.59 which is about even, but the knockup provides longer mitigation than a knockdown so it's better than that. The set also has clobber to stun a target, though it's not really perma-able to much sadly, but it does help starting out on non-bosses. The set as a whole again also has much more mitigation between shatter and crowd control, much better single target damage, and still really good aoe damage as well. As you can see, almost no set has less mitigation than savage melee does. Most have better single target damage at the very least if procs are thrown into the mix given savage's shorter cast and recharge times. The only place savage beats about half of the sets is aoe damage thanks mostly to savage leap, but as mentioned at the vast cost of mitigation, though it's also the most resisted damage type as well. Which is why those blood stacks are SO important to not have the lockout. They're needed to help balance the set as a bonus niche. Otherwise the set is about average to a little better on aoe (which this gets cut WAY down in the current form, as the lockout means you may not want to use rending flurry which will greatly lower your aoe damage), on the lower end of single target damage, and almost no mitigation by comparison. This set NEEDS the lockout removed.

/notthatmuchpowercreep Different benefit versus other sets, not OP. We're also talking the difference between what can be done now, and what it would be without a lockout (which again, taking the average buff, not going to be at a full 5 stacks constantly)

We're aware of that, where that also limits the initial burst damage on the set too in a big way for the alpha strike. Those other things mentioned, just a -speed debuff means extremely little outside of pvp, especially with doms. The -defense in the cone is one of the only other real benefits as far as buff/debuff, and mainly on the dom version, melee version cone is there but it's, not that great. (would definitely make sense for that cone to get the 120 degree angle that shadow maul got). Fyi, shred is already on a 2.17s cast time, which already negates the small bonus granted by the blood stacks. and also in fuller builds becomes essentially null compared to that longer cast time. Vicious slash as well, you aren't accounting for the 1.67 cast time. Which isn't bad, just stating that its 10.67s base cycle, not 9 seconds (really 10.802 arcanatime), Where that cast time factors in to minimizing the benefit on the attacks themselves of that small recharge boost especially on fuller builds.

Right, I didn't say the stacks did nothing, quite the opposite which is why the annoyance of the lockouts. As those stacks are the main benefit of the set since it hardly has any mitigation and other effects. Nothing would need to be given up, as it's already traded off for that lack of mitigation/other buffs/debuffs that other sets get. The blood stacks ARE the tradeoff for not having those, why it's extra dumb to completely lock out (for a very long time in battle too) of those stacks which the set is balanced around. When most people are actively trying to avoid using the finishers, it's really a bad set design, which is mostly completely due to the lockouts. And you misunderstood, when i mentioned removing the finishers as a suggestion, meaning that you'd lose the extra damage boosts on those finishers at the tradeoff within the set of being able to consistently have more blood stack buffs. (This would also mean no extra damage with less than max stats too, as a suggested tradeoff for losing the lockouts, though this isn't necessary, removing the lockouts would be all that's needed)