ExeErdna

I was surprised it was so weak since I get the concept is like the things the DE's summon that almost make them near unkillable depending on the group density and player level. If place it down, then within two hits its gone and you can unironically pull a bit too much by throwing it down attempting to set up. When it was simply safer to Seed and Creep the same group. THEN place the tree for it's regen

As somebody that plays with a Plant/Nature damn near every day. The Creepers even if they're "bugged" and Seeds are "overtuned" it's nothing compared to some other sets. Yeah I can Fire farm yet without those tankers and brutes holding the aggro I'm on the floor. Yes, I can clear a bit fast yet that's only because I'm working within the support role and at end game high speed content A LOT out paces me before I can even setup. It feels like it's looking more so at metrics instead of gameplay. Since there are MANY sets that have 1 or 2 skippable skills. That's the only way how you can fit in movement and leadership. Nobody takes Spores Burst because Electric has the best sleep and that's getting buffed. There was a point where I skipped Spirit Tree since I didn't need it as I was running Plant/Time. Yet in Plant/Nature I can drop a strong healing area right on an AV to keep all the melee alive. Pretty much no matter the changes Spores, Stranger, Spirit Tree and or Fly Trap are getting skipped in some way since building up the secondary and picking up other things make sense. Like look at Force Field you can skip 5-6 parts of the set and you still have the Force Field experience. So to me leave Plants as it was because you're buffing and introducing more. Hell, Grav is pretty much 4 skills and one is the pet. Most people skip Smoke on Fire, Nobody uses Salt on Earth, Illusion people skip Wounds, Group Invisibility and GI is the WORSE left standing skill on the set. I still don't want to play Mind because of TK changes don't really work with how I play and even then BOTH sleeps were skippible, With Dark you drop Possess the moment you get the Haunts and Heart of Darkness can be skipped depending on if you're be combat TP'ing. Elec the only thing that should be skipped was Jolting Chain. With Arsenal you can drop the Tranq if you're often playing end game since the AOE does the heavy lifting especially if you don't want to break stealth. Symphony I've seen people skip the pet yet to me the Lullaby is skippable since so much can already -dmg better out of the secondaries, Rad, Dark, Nature and Marine are right there. So, Plant is basically from my own gameplay the "Force Field" of the Controller primaries. You don't need the whole thing to get what you want out of it.

Yeah, people see a cluster of vines pop out at pulls on ITF and think it's amazing. It was yet the REAL DPS players still clear way faster than I. Where I was good at is when we had to lockdown and sit somewhere. Which allows the creepers to grow and seeds to soften up mobs a bit. After switching out Will of the Controller for Cupid's Crush now Creepers has a funny confusion gimmick since from what I played with Cupid's Crush is better in most Controller pets than anything else. To me Creepers might as well be a pet. Isn't that the point of how slotting works. Yeah somebody is gonna put 6 procs to me that's dumb because I want the set bonuses. I'm losing out on my fun because procing's a bit crazy "sure" Yet it's making it feel like everybody is running Plant and it "ruining" content. It's just people know what they're doing, that how and why I can pull up and be a hitter in many fire farms. This just feels like I'm getting punished for knowing what I'm doing.

My Plant/Nature is my current main because it's the weakest of my set of Controllers. These nerfs ruin it since what would Plant be without Seeds or Creepers being strong? An unfinished controller set. I know what I am talking about because I min/max the absolute hell of that troller to suit the melee ranged combat it wants to be in. Why pull down Plant when everybody else is getting pulled up? The only gimmick it has high damage if there are enough enemies clustered together and honestly the only confusion that's worth using the dmg procs on. That doesn't need to be nerfed. My Grav/Rad hits like a truck. My Arsenal/Traps is synergistic perfection. My Elec/Elec is gonna be a powerhouse when these update rolls out. My Earth/Marine is so good it's boring to play. This isn't a "sky is falling" this is a bad idea about to happen that will ruin the ONLY things that makes Plant stand out. Plant/Nature was always the "Poison Ivy/Swamp Thing" gimmick it wasn't near the best it was just thematically cool. The set stands out under niche conditions which is massive crowds that force you to stand there for a bit. So super fast clearing I'll rather finish my Fire/Marine. Plant is good on, ITF, Market Crash, All the zone-based invasion events, MSR, Trials and Farming. It's too slow or isn't active enough for most Strike forces

It's why I state Plants only has 2 good skills and it's Seeds and Creepers. The pet is not worth it when you can drop that into the tree and keep a whole league so stacked with regen they wouldn't know they've been hit combined with Nature's features. Plant outright has 4 skips Stranglers, Spore Burst, Spirit Tree and Fly Trap. The signature skills are the main two things getting chopped down. The set is basic besides those two skills. With these nerfs Plants is the worse set since its keystone features no longer do their job.

I'm realizing the opener for this set is supposed to be Glittering Column since it reminds me of Omega Maneuver, personally, it needs some sort of slow so mobs don't instantly dash at the player the moment they get up. It's strong when you invest in it and is a key tool of the set. Sparking Chain is ok, often times you really can't see the chaining yet it reminds of Jolting Chain but better. Hypnotizing Lights is the best skill of the set sleep + confusion is a good stack and it does a good amount of damage and still its mez time is high enough that one can invest in either dmg or mez Multipurpose Missiles WOULD be the best skill of the set if it was a normal click skill. For some reason maybe it's just me, yet when I try to use it sometimes it just won't work since this is what you use as the Column is priming so you can get the containment crit. It isn't red it isn't clicking an enemy it be on empty flat ground and it won't work. This failure gotten me downed a few times. Incendiary Aura is beautiful but that's it. It needs a bit more feedback that I know it's doing it's job. The aura imo should be the main source of the blast off since the debuff aspect is ok. Sure some people are gonna proc it. Personally, it's the easiest "skip" since most players aren't daredevils that play Trollers like a tank. Yet really does need more feedback. Explosive Bouquet, does it job it's clearly Geyser but it holds. It doesnt need to do anything else Catherine Wheel: Amazing in open air not so great indoors more than likely horrible in caves. As I did notice it seems slower than the other pets and sometimes it gets stuck on parts of the environment it shouldn't. Like the Singularity wouldn't get stuck in rooms. Yet I move a bit TOO fast out of a room and I most likely have to resummon. The set is powerful when it works as it's theorized yet when it fails it hurts.

Instead of nerfing Seeds, look at the older Single Target confusions because I can admit I skip them except in Symphony since they're now a dps monster, especially with Cupid's Crush. Vines' damage buff is interesting on paper yet for the synergy with Nature's aura I didn't see the damage as much as I would like. Since it seems like enemies are out regen the damage. Yes, Creepers are spawning less often which defeats Plant's usefulness since that is the #1 reason you pick Plant. You want to be "OP" Fire, Grav, Arsenal, Illusion, are right there. Elec is about to be amazing. Plant is legit a two trick gimmick nobody is that mad about. Spirit Tree's taunting is not great because once again that was Creeper's role to pull aggro, Since you drop'em on a clustered group 5 pop out and they're getting snared figuring out which vine to hit. The tree gets two tapped by 2+ Warwolves and they turn back on me. Legit making playing the set harsher than it needs to be.

As somebody that mains Plant/Nature this isn't good at all. It's solid Vines gets a buff and Spirit Tree does a bit more. Carrion Creepers is the ONLY big damage we can do. Since the pet is way too weak at least to me so I skipped it to grab the Tree which is solid when it comes to Trial content yet since it "taunts" it may not be as good due to it might pull off from tankers. The only thing strong was seeds and creepers that WAS the whole set. It opens up mid and late game. Looking at how Pyrotech is working nerfing Plant isn't needed since Pyro is better. Honestly Buff Vines yet leave everything else alone since with this current wave Elec is even better than Plant. Plant is only "silly" because I'm playing like I'm a tank which only works at 44+ since I don't have Burnout or Melee Core yet

From what I played with it, IF it comes over here I think the big change will be how Pressure is built and how it's conveyed to the player. All because this control only "works" early game because you have Vortex first which helps a lot. Having Vortex in its standard placement makes this just bad to play due to the low damage since everything relies on Pressure. Thundergust is just a worse Gale unironically. That's gonna need to be looked at because for what it does that CD needs to be much lower.

I've played around with Wind Control recently and I kinda understand why it hasn't been brought over here yet. Since it's solid as it is on other servers it might need a rework with how our character building overall works. Plus the set needs a bit more visual feedback on some of the skills so you can understand who got hit with what. Also in buildings it's gonna be hell so they're gonna need to make a min fx version for sure

I'm building an Earth/Sonic now, it starts out ranged, playing like a normal Earth Control troller. Yet around 25 it becomes melee, since you have 5 holds with this combo by 30. The #1 problem I'm noticing which is just common when leveling is that you're burning through end trying to keep up. Yet when you're Dominating you're clearly a game changer with all the -def/res this combo can do

Controllers do simply that control. I mean an Ice/Time will do NO damage at all. Yet they will be the MVP by keeping the whole group alive by basically hugging the tank or they might end up being the tank. To me pretty much maining them they're about the gimmick you want to do instead of upfront damage. You can kit out a Fire/Time, Traps, TA, Marine, Kin, Cold, Storm and Poison to do some consistent damage. Yet is that the gimmick you want? A recent example since Marine dropped. I will say Fire meshes much better than Marine than Arsenal yet I just like the more supportive role than the aggressive one.

This is the first idea I had when I first tested Marine on Controller. Personally, Barrier Reef is much better earlier you shouldn't need Hibernate because you didn't take Whitecap so you really aren't in melee like that. Air Superiority doesn't fit personally that would have been better suited for Hover to get some passives. Toroidal Bubble is better suited for Res than End Mod. You shouldn't need to invest that much into Stamina because said bubble really covers you with 2 basic End Mod inventions. Also, Panacea is better in the Health slot where the Numina could take an extra slot or be put over with Soothing Waves. Tide Pool doesn't need End-reduction Personally, since Tide Pool is such a big part of the set anything that's affected by it can come after you get Tide Pool.

This build is more so I can standardize a Marine Affinity setup that works for me. So you can switch out Shoal Rush for Tranquilizer and how the build plays really won't change too much. I just wanted more Single Target for the early/mid-game. For Shifting Tides you can get away with 2 basic 50 Dmg or End Reduction inventions. Or you could switch the slotting with Liquid Nitrogen since Frozen Blast Proc does come out of Shifting Tides more often from what I've played with.

This is how I overall been slotting Marine, the hami is the Recharge/End. Shifting Tides can honestly be 2 dmg 50s, I was just messing around with the immo proc here. Obliteration proc does work decently in Whitecap

The main thing I agree upon is having a frenzy proc on Depths if you're on a Tide Pool. The lack of Mez is pretty much the weakness of most support sets which is why Tide Pool and Shifting Tides are so strong upon this set. So if you're worried about Thorns mobs you have to play in a group which is what this set wants that's why it's so good on MM's. This is why I wish I could get a decent group running in Brainstorm so I can test this in a proper environment. Running solos can only present so much data, and because of that I can see Marine users having fun in the trials due to having a lot of enemies around.

Personally, the set feels like a middle ground between Nature and Kin but with a strong soft control gimmick with the knockdown in Tide Pool. There's a lot of -/+Dmg in the set. To me the Def/Corr side of it really shouldn't be +4 at all outside of groups even though I like the Water Blast setup. Even Storm Blast has a nice synergy with Tide Pool Yet from what I played MMs and some controller combos can hang in a solo +4 with Clarion. Tide Pool and Shifting Tides are the mainstay of the set so it will be amazing if you have a tank that knows what they're doing. Barrier Reef and The Bubble can help a lot. Yet for Marine it depends if you want to use Whitecap or Shoal Rush to proc the frenzy effect on Tide Pool. Since the most skippable pieces in the set are Shoal Rush, Brine and Whitecap. You can wait on getting Shoal and Whitecap for later after you get Tide Pool. Yet Brine might be something you either take late or simply skip outright.

I agree it's perfect for MM's or anybody who for sure knows they're playing with groups often. This is also why I said this will be popular support set for fire farmers. When it goes live people are gonna enjoy it whenever a Marine user shows up.

Yeah, that was honestly my whole logic with it, Whitecap just flows better since I'm going to make a fire/marine when it goes live. I want to give Shoal some shine since they did fix it A LOT yet for most builds it really doesn't fit for the level it's at. Yet grabbing AFTER you get Tide Pool sure yet never before that point imo.

What I'm realizing due to they both proc the frenzy of Tide Pool I'm thinking builds might think either Shoal or Whitecap yet not both in most cases. Like if you're comfortable being in the middle of the mess take Whitecap. If you rather hang back and cast take Shoal. With my Fire/Marine compared to my Symphony/Marine. Fire wants you right there, there's no need for a slow there's so much KD at times they're basically held. Now with Symphony lacking PBAOE and a melee pet. You want Shoal you proc that frenzy from afar.

I normally use the t9 before whitecap-ing into a group to prevent my pets from getting nuked yet I do really like that whitecap itself procs the Tide Pool effect now. I just need to find a way to put Shoal Rush back in. What I noticed I don't use much is the heal because Barrier Reef is good. So I'm seeing some end-game builds might skip Soothing Waves to put points elsewhere.

It's very consistent on Beasts, I learned to not put Shifting Tides on Alpha or Dire Wolf as they wouldn't get into the groups consistently like the others. I really want to test this on Necro now to see if it can solo Scrapyard

3 toggles personally that's easy to mitigate Rad has 3. That's what it reminds me of, its Radiation with a Leadership twist and works well with its sister control. Since the pet isn't as aggressive as it once was it's gonna be in the range of the toggles thus being very buffed. This would also be fun with Thugs, Mercs and Robots. Hell I would honestly reroll my Demon/Sonic into this

I honestly like it because it's trying to do something a bit different and theme-wise it'll make some interesting pairings especially if it ends up on Sentinel too.

I agree, with my theory crafting of the set it does not want you to hang back at all. It wants you to play in the Tide Pool so something needs to prevent mezzes or solo'ing with it under 50 isn't gonna be fun. The moment you run into your first Ruin Mage is gonna be a very bad time.