Doom's Kheldian Builds [ARCHIVED] No further updates.

[Doomrider]

15 minutes ago, Radeon said:

Just finished the respec, built in all sets and it's unfortunately almost not playable. At least for me. I am dying all the time, 10 times more than before, because i am in stun/sleep/hold in their second attack. Malta and Council alike. 

 

Probably i am doing something wrong, but i don't know that. 

Mez is the achilles heel of the Human Warshade. Not fault of the build tbh. 
A bandaid solution could be to run a defense amplifier for mag 4 mez protection. Clarion Destiny would be the other option. 
Pre-emptively using break frees to maintain mez protection is another option.

Another option you could look at is building even more defensively (higher defense totals) but it would come at the cost of offense, and IMO, it's generally not worth it on a Warshade.
The unfortunate truth, and it's especially true even for a fully fleshed out Human Shade, is you will have some reliance on inspiration usage.

EDIT: On the note of inspirations; anytime you're building for 30%+- defense, the build will operate optimally when using small purple inspirations to shore up that defense. If you run into a group of Malta/Carnies/Arachnos (any faction that poses a real threat) with 30% defense alone, due to the nature of not having any DDR, your defense will disappear from defense debuffs. At that point you will 100% rely on inspirations, and active mitigation (Gravitic Emanation + inky) to cc mobs.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Doomrider

[Radeon]

20 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Mez is the achilles heel of the Human Warshade. Not fault of the build tbh. 
 

Sorry, i didn't mean to say that there is a faulty build, but i played the toon for 65 levels and in all those levels she wasn't stunned that often like in the last hour. Really, every single mob! stuns me. 

 

I have to find out how to mitigate that or i don't like to play her anymore.

 

Maybe i am simply using wrong attack chain..what would be recommended?

 

 

Real big thanks for your time and help anyway 🙂

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Radeon

[Doomrider]

2 hours ago, Radeon said:

Sorry, i didn't mean to say that there is a faulty build, but i played the toon for 65 levels and in all those levels she wasn't stunned that often like in the last hour. Really, every single mob! stuns me. 

 

I have to find out how to mitigate that or i don't like to play her anymore.

 

Maybe i am simply using wrong attack chain..what would be recommended?

 

No offense taken. I meant more in respect to "any build" not specifically the one in question. No build will solve that issue. At least when it comes to Human Warshade.
Warshades are one of few classes whose performance heavily relies on player input, and situational awareness.

You can build other AT's into Invincible Demi-gods that require very low input whereby the build essentially plays itself save for a few button presses and basic player movement.
Warshade is the opposite. And for some, that level of input or "extra effort" is not worth it to them. For some, it comes down to a "why should I have try this hard with "Class A" to perform the same task that "Class B" can perform but with much less minimal effort."

Part of the issue is also the binary nature of Mez effects; they either effect you wholly, or not at all. Some AT's can ignore them entirely with their built in Mez protection.
But for Human Shades, they can completely lock you out of playing and shut off your offensive toggles. It can be frustrating, and it is certainly a learning curve. 

So you either have learn to live with that, and use the tools at your disposal (break free insps, defense amp temp powers, clarion destiny, etc.) or decide if the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. 

ALL that being said; with practice many overcome these obstacles and work around their short comings. Human Warshade is definitely a hard road to travel though. One approach you can try is to use Gravitic as your opener to stun mobs, run in with Inky Aspect on to stack stuns including the boss. 
Then reposition and repeat as needed to keep them stunned. 
I tend use that approach, rather than run into melee range and try to buff up w/ Eclipse and mire first.

Also try to use Dark Detonation on cooldown to abuse the knockdown.

If you take a more offensive approach, it may work better. Alternate Quasar and Unchain between mobs. 
You can click on Dark Extraction to target downed bodies a bit easier, to help you queue up Unchain.

Unchain also has a short stun attached, and Cross Punch has a chance to stun as well so those can help stack with Inky.
 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Doomrider

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, Doomrider said:

No offense taken. I meant more in respect to "any build" not specifically the one in question. No build will solve that issue. At least when it comes to Human Warshade.
Warshades are one of few classes whose performance heavily relies on player input, and situational awareness.

You can build other AT's into Invincible Demi-gods that require very low input whereby the build essentially plays itself save for a few button presses and basic player movement.
Warshade is the opposite. And for some, that level of input or "extra effort" is not worth it to them. For some, it comes down to a "why should I have try this hard with "Class A" to perform the same task that "Class B" can perform but with much less minimal effort."

Part of the issue is also the binary nature of Mez effects; they either effect you wholly, or not at all. Some AT's can ignore them entirely with their built in Mez protection.
But for Human Shades, they can completely lock you out of playing and shut off your offensive toggles. It can be frustrating, and it is certainly a learning curve. 

So you either have learn to live with that, and use the tools at your disposal (break free insps, defense amp temp powers, clarion destiny, etc.) or decide if the juice just isn't worth the squeeze. 

ALL that being said; with practice many overcome these obstacles and work around their short comings. Human Warshade is definitely a hard road to travel though. One approach you can try is to use Gravitic as your opener to stun mobs, run in with Inky Aspect on to stack stuns including the boss. 
Then reposition and repeat as needed to keep them stunned. 
I tend use that approach, rather than run into melee range and try to buff up w/ Eclipse and mire first.

Also try to use Dark Detonation on cooldown to abuse the knockdown.

If you take a more offensive approach, it may work better. Alternate Quasar and Unchain between mobs. 
You can click on Dark Extraction to target downed bodies a bit easier, to help you queue up Unchain.

Unchain also has a short stun attached, and Cross Punch has a chance to stun as well so those can help stack with Inky.
 

Hey Doom! QQ: Looking at your tanky human form PB: If you have Perma Light Form, so you still suffer from the endurance drop? I’m just curious if you leave it on auto fire, will you actually experience the endurance drop or will take just keep rolling?

[Radeon]

That is all true and understandable, the only thing that isn't explained by that is the drastic difference in survivability between my previous, IO only build, compared to now, full set'ed. 

 

I don't compare it with my invinsible demi god brute, who can tank all and everything, but with the build i had yesterday. I don't get, why it is such a negative (in terms of survivability) difference.

 

I like being offensive, jumping  from mob to mob, but i don't like, that each and every mob will stun me, switch off 2 of my toggles and (almost) kill me everytime. 

Will try it for a few more days and maybe try so squeeze some more def out of it and sacrifice some damage for it.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Doomrider said:

For some, it comes down to a "why should I have try this hard with "Class A" to perform the same task that "Class B" can perform but with much less minimal effort."

 

In many cases, you need to add "in far less time" but I will be the first to admit your Warshade Trapdoor run was faster than my claws/sr scrapper's. I know how to fix it but it would mean a rebuild I don't wanna do.

[Doomrider]

7 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Hey Doom! QQ: Looking at your tanky human form PB: If you have Perma Light Form, so you still suffer from the endurance drop? I’m just curious if you leave it on auto fire, will you actually experience the endurance drop or will take just keep rolling?

You will experience the endurance drop no matter what. It will BRING you to 50% end and HP when it does even if your HP and End were below 50% when the crash occurs.
I leave hasten on auto personally. Even if you leave it on auto-fire the crash will still happen but it's really quite manageable tbh. When it happens you hit your heal and keep trucking.
Light form has bonus recovery built in so you shouldn't really see any downtime.
 

[Doomrider]

24 minutes ago, Radeon said:

That is all true and understandable, the only thing that isn't explained by that is the drastic difference in survivability between my previous, IO only build, compared to now, full set'ed. 

 

Yeah that's a bit strange. If anything, having defense bonuses vs having none, should immediately mean you have less mez hitting you.
Are you using the combat monitor to see when your defenses cascade due to defense debuffs? 

Insp. combining macros can also be really handy. I usually have one set up to combine into breakfrees and another for combining into purples.
 

[Doomrider]

44 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

In many cases, you need to add "in far less time" but I will be the first to admit your Warshade Trapdoor run was faster than my claws/sr scrapper's. I know how to fix it but it would mean a rebuild I don't wanna do.

QFT. Wayyyy less time in the majority of cases. Human Warshade is a build for masochists, or someone looking for a new pseudo difficulty level.
Conceptually awesome, mechanically a nightmare. Some of us make it work but I have no illusions about it's short comings.

I imagine you probably had more consistent times on claws/sr though. Too many variables running it with a Shade for my Trapdoor time to be indicative of general performance.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Doomrider

[Radeon]

Here i have my rebuild, can you see something totally stupid or to improve big time, which i missed? 

 

-updated.

Talea PreFinal.mxd

Edited May 5, 2022 by Radeon

[Doomrider]

7 hours ago, Radeon said:

Here i have my rebuild, can you see something totally stupid or to improve big time, which i missed? 

 

-updated.

Talea PreFinal.mxd 4.86 kB · 0 downloads

3 slotting the shields w/ unbreakable guard is a bit strange. If it's just having better enhancement values and less reliance on Eclipse then I would franken slot instead and save 1 or 2 slots per power tbh. Then boost then enhancements in them. 
I wouldn't 6 slot OF into Shadowblast. Removing the procs will gut the damage, and all your getting out of that is 2.5 e/n defense.

Psi res ios, and impervious skin io are useless on a Warshade. Eclipse gives plenty of psi resistance. Your inherent also gives you resistance when teaming, which includes psi.

I would not delay taking Gravitic until 41. Gravitic + Inky is a lot of damage mitigation. I know that is dependent on not being mezzed, but still. 

If you have access to beta, it may be advantageous to test out some other builds there to get some perspective. 

The other route you could take is more of a classic Human Warshade build that uses more full io sets, Spiritual Alpha and max recharge bonuses.
You'd get more passive damage resists that way, and building might be more simple. Budget still may be an issue though.


 

[Apian]

It seems like the Changeling build post linked on page 3 has been removed. Would it be possible to post it again? Also I see in your videos you have macro icons on your power trays. How do I create those?

[Doomrider]

8 hours ago, Apian said:

It seems like the Changeling build post linked on page 3 has been removed. Would it be possible to post it again? Also I see in your videos you have macro icons on your power trays. How do I create those?

Yeah I removed it. The playstyle is not really something I advocate for anymore. it's convoluted and takes a fair bit more setup time than most people are willing to put in.
The mids build, for the most part, isn't really anything special as the build was really just predicated on heavy macro usage.

You can create a macro for any form attack that will take you into that form, activate the power, then drop you back to human. 
The same can be done for human form powers, letting you use a macro to drop out of a form and activate said human form power.

For example:

/macro blast "powexec_toggleon dark nova$$powexec_name dark nova blast" 
Will bring you into Nova, fire Dark Nova blast with the first click of the macro, then bring you back to human on the second press.

/macro gwell "powexec_toggleoff black dwarf$$powexec_toggleoff dark nova$$powexec_name gravity well"
Will drop you out of a form and activate Gravity Well.

As for the icons for the macro, you can get them from this google sheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uHUi6BWFTYj4wbfGBs3LjZL88Fym6B-8EwDr18YZcY8/edit#gid=0

The macro image goes at the front of the string before "powexec_toggleon" in the first example. The macro will then display the power icon instead of a the name you give it.

[Glowman]

On 11/24/2019 at 6:53 PM, Doomrider said:

This build is my current Peacebringer build. It's a Triform flex build. 20% positionals in all forms. 32.5% to all positionals w/ defensive toggles up for hard target fights since our ST chain is all human.

Doom's Current Tri-form 'Flex' Build (20 positional def in all forms; 32.5 to positions def in human w/ toggles)

Doom's Current Tri-form Peacebringer proc chain 20% positionals 32.5% human flex build.mxd

Features:
20% def to positional defense in all forms. 32.5% in human when defensive toggles on. I use this during AV fights since my ST chain is all human.
Perma Lightform*

140% global recharge (hasten's bonus included) 
*Hasten and Lightform are made perma utilizing the recharge bonus from Cross Punch (10% per enemy hit) and FFB proc in Solar Flare which is constantly up when we're cycling aoe's due to Solar Flares good proc rate.
Optimal ST attack chain Gleaming / Radiant / Crosspunch -> Repeat, fully proc'd for maximum ST damage. Achilles and FotG procs in the chain help push dps and soften up hard targets.

Inner Light takes L21 gaussian's set to maximize the BU proc chance by keeping the enhanced recharge value as low as possible while still benefiting from the positional set bonuses. This way this turns Inner light into essentially Build up + Aim for 5 seconds which really allows you to maximize your aoe burst. (ie. Inner Light-> Dawn Strike -> Solar Flare; with this combo most mobs will be dead at which point you can wipe up stranglers with Nova form Aoes)

 

Is this the order you would take the powers? Also, I assume the slots aren't intended to be in level order considering we can't put enhancements in White Dwarf Flare, for instance, until level 20?

[Doomrider]

47 minutes ago, Glowman said:

 

Is this the order you would take the powers? Also, I assume the slots aren't intended to be in level order considering we can't put enhancements in White Dwarf Flare, for instance, until level 20?

It is the order I would take the powers but the slot order is not to be followed.
Infact, if I were looking for what powers to pick, the order and slots while leveling I wouldn't follow that build. I would instead run a typical Tri-form build and slot the Nova aoes early and save slotting powers like Gleaming Blast and Radiant Strike for later on.
I'd use Glinting Eye and Bright Nova Blast for ST damage, Nova Det, Scatter and Dwarf Flare for aoe.

That build exemps well but there are better builds to use while leveling. 

[Glowman]

Cool. Appreciate the reply!

[Gruntius]

So @Doomrider you seem very knowledgeable about Kheld builds so I really wanted to get your opinion on something. Back on live there was guy that went by TwoHeadedBoy, he was apparently a big deal (I was just a kid at the time and didn't care about builds). He created an insane Warshade build and apparently guarded the secret to how he did it until the announcement that the game was shutting down. I'm really curious how that build stands up against more modern builds like the ones you've posted here. 

 

Link to the WayBackMachine that will take you to the old thread where THB posted his build

https://web.archive.org/web/20120911114020/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296404

[Doomrider]

25 minutes ago, Gruntius said:

So @Doomrider you seem very knowledgeable about Kheld builds so I really wanted to get your opinion on something. Back on live there was guy that went by TwoHeadedBoy, he was apparently a big deal (I was just a kid at the time and didn't care about builds). He created an insane Warshade build and apparently guarded the secret to how he did it until the announcement that the game was shutting down. I'm really curious how that build stands up against more modern builds like the ones you've posted here. 

 

Link to the WayBackMachine that will take you to the old thread where THB posted his build

https://web.archive.org/web/20120911114020/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296404

Yeah, Sept (THB) and I played a fair bit on our shades together so I remember the build. I don't think he's around anymore though.

The build was before nukes became crash-less so it's missing Quasar.  
The build itself is not bad per-say, but maybe a bit outdated. I remember THB used to solo AV's on this build before Fluffies' AI got borked. Now our pets run into melee for no reason and die.
It also was a pre-PPM build, so it doesn't use any proc tricks that we currently have. 

If I were to edit his build, these are the changes I would make.
THB Shade modified 06.05.2022.mxd

Slightly modified def totals. Dropped Unchain for Quasar. (Quasar will be up more frequently and does more damage)
Added KB -> KD. 
Proc'd out Gravitic Emanation while retaining stun enhancement. 
Proc'd out Essence Drain.

[Gruntius]

@Doomrider Wow, I didn't know you two knew each other, that's cool.

 

Damn, the Fluffies looked really fun too. My main is Mastermind and Crabbermind so anything to do with lots of pets is a big draw for me, bummer about the AI

 

I really appreciate you modernizing THB's old build for me, I was looking for a solid human only Warshade build. I don't even necessarily care that it's not statistically the most amazing build posted in this forum, it was worked on by both you and THB and that feels special. I'll definitely put this on my Warshade

 

The only change I may make for taste is removing Superspeed, travel powers aren't super important to me but I am interested in trying a teleport only toon for the fun of it. Plus I noticed you removed the set bonus from Superspeed. I don't know what I'll put there but I'll experiment with something, maybe I'll work in an unslotted Unchain Essence just as a move I use for fun

 

Thanks again for the build, it means a lot

[Doomrider]

2 minutes ago, Gruntius said:

@Doomrider Wow, I didn't know you two knew each other, that's cool.

 

Damn, the Fluffies looked really fun too. My main is Mastermind and Crabbermind so anything to do with lots of pets is a big draw for me, bummer about the AI

 

I really appreciate you modernizing THB's old build for me, I was looking for a solid human only Warshade build. I don't even necessarily care that it's not statistically the most amazing build posted in this forum, it was worked on by both you and THB and that feels special. I'll definitely put this on my Warshade

 

The only change I may make for taste is removing Superspeed, travel powers aren't super important to me but I am interested in trying a teleport only toon for the fun of it. Plus I noticed you removed the set bonus from Superspeed. I don't know what I'll put there but I'll experiment with something, maybe I'll work in an unslotted Unchain Essence just as a move I use for fun

 

Thanks again for the build, it means a lot

No problem. Statistically it's not much of a change, but what is swapped in will serve the build better. The loss of aoe defense won't be felt.

As for the fluffies, they still work great in a team setting. And this build does have provoke in it, so you do have a way to redirect aggro which will help them stay alive longer.
Good luck!

[Glowman]

On 11/24/2019 at 6:53 PM, Doomrider said:

This build is my current Peacebringer build. It's a Triform flex build. 20% positionals in all forms. 32.5% to all positionals w/ defensive toggles up for hard target fights since our ST chain is all human.

Doom's Current Tri-form 'Flex' Build (20 positional def in all forms; 32.5 to positions def in human w/ toggles)

Doom's Current Tri-form Peacebringer proc chain 20% positionals 32.5% human flex build.mxd

Features:
20% def to positional defense in all forms. 32.5% in human when defensive toggles on. I use this during AV fights since my ST chain is all human.
Perma Lightform*

140% global recharge (hasten's bonus included) 
*Hasten and Lightform are made perma utilizing the recharge bonus from Cross Punch (10% per enemy hit) and FFB proc in Solar Flare which is constantly up when we're cycling aoe's due to Solar Flares good proc rate.
Optimal ST attack chain Gleaming / Radiant / Crosspunch -> Repeat, fully proc'd for maximum ST damage. Achilles and FotG procs in the chain help push dps and soften up hard targets.

Inner Light takes L21 gaussian's set to maximize the BU proc chance by keeping the enhanced recharge value as low as possible while still benefiting from the positional set bonuses. This way this turns Inner light into essentially Build up + Aim for 5 seconds which really allows you to maximize your aoe burst. (ie. Inner Light-> Dawn Strike -> Solar Flare; with this combo most mobs will be dead at which point you can wipe up stranglers with Nova form Aoes)

Which incarnates would you recommend on this tri-form flex build?

[Doomrider]

4 hours ago, Glowman said:

Which incarnates would you recommend on this tri-form flex build?

Alpha - musc radial or int radial

Destiny - ageless core (to counter sappers)

Interface - reactive or degen

Hybrid - assault radial

Lore - whatever you want 

[Glowman]

5 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Alpha - musc radial or int radial

Destiny - ageless core (to counter sappers)

Interface - reactive or degen

Hybrid - assault radial

Lore - whatever you want 

Appreciate it! Having a blast with the build!

[xArgulusx]

Has anyone put together a decent Human/Dwarf bi-form?

Scrapper in Human and then switch to Dwarf when it really hits the fan.

I have a TriForm Warshade that I enjoy quite a bit and wanted to do something different with PB. Wasn’t looking to try and go full Human Only, unless the Human/Dwarf is actually worse off (gimped) in some way.

Thoughts?

[Errants]

3 hours ago, xArgulusx said:

Has anyone put together a decent Human/Dwarf bi-form?

Scrapper in Human and then switch to Dwarf when it really hits the fan.

I have a TriForm Warshade that I enjoy quite a bit and wanted to do something different with PB. Wasn’t looking to try and go full Human Only, unless the Human/Dwarf is actually worse off (gimped) in some way.

Thoughts?

Kheldian construction is about to be shaken up, due to impending changes to toggle suppression on Test.

May want to wait that out a bit... Might see Defense-capped Dwarf builds.