Mind / traps: how bad would this be?

[Bastille Boy]

I have a character concept for roleplaying toon. Thematically, mind control and traps would be the perfect powerset combination. But I notice that this combination is extremely rare. In the September data, only two people had played this combination up to level 50.

 

I'm tempted to try this out on the theory that any powerset combination is viable with patience and skill. But I'm worried that this could be unpleasant to play. Would this combination be a total train wreck (in a bad way)? Will it be near-impossible to play solo? Would it contribute anything to a high level team?

[ThrillMill]

I think it could work well enough. I'd probably try to leverage the Sleeps to get up close and plat Time Bomb + Trip Mines. In groups, this might prove too slow/difficult. I think it'd be a fine solo'er tho. 

[Erydanus]

Honestly I think it would be fine, maybe a little slow but workable. In my head there are certain powersets that I flag "independent" and by that I mean that you can just play those sets by themselves and they don't really need anything special to make them work. For instance, my favorite control set is Gravity, but I don't think it's an independent set: it's high damage but low soft control. It needs SOME help from the secondary or else you need to plan to team with it.

 

Mind control is an independent set. It doesn't have the typical immobilize and hold at the start, rather it has a sleep and a hold and a direct attack and that changes low level play. But what you get instead of a tiny damage AoE immobilize is a powerful AoE sleep which means it's easy for you to soft control a group and if you're soloing you can pick them off one at a time, if you're teaming the sleep will just save your team from taking their first attack and then your team will splat them. Soloing, you can make an ally by using Confuse, and you can use Mesmerize as just a spare attack or a nice quick shut down for an annoying foe like a Sorcerer. At higher levels you get Terrify for slightly more durable yet still soft controls. I'll admit Mass Confusion isn't my most favorite power and I'd personally rather have Penny Yin's psychic singularity-like pet, but overall you're good to go. Because of not having a pet I can say that at most I'd like a secondary that has some direct damage in it, but by the same token you could just make an aggressive pick of epic pool and dip into it at 35 for another attack (what I'm saying is take fireball or bile spray at level 35 and swap later if you don't like it). So basically in my opinion Mind control is workable with any secondary as long as that secondary doesn't directly conflict with it. Storm might be a problem it just depends on how you combo the powers. 

 

Traps is kind of similar. It's a jack of all trades, master of none.  The big perk for it of course is the Force Field Generator, mostly for the mez resistance. It has movement debuffs, defense debuffs, self healing (regen), a stun, and yes, some damage albeit from placement of mines and bombs. It is, in a word, independent.

 

I do think they can potentially work together very well. You have the ability to sleep a group, walk into the group and drop a time bomb then leave and throw some caltrops in your wake, maybe tossing out an acid mortar or some seeker drones.  Even at lower levels you can lay down traps and leverage confuse, sleep, and fear to force the enemies to either run into the traps or stay there flailing around. Normally I'm not a fan of Telekinesis but you know what? If the baddies manage to avoid your trip mines because they pathed in a way you didn't expect, you could pick them up and literally shove them back into them or other traps. 

 

You might not shine as much on a big team steamrollering all the things but on a small team or solo you'll get to really enjoy a thoughtful and engaging playstyle.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, ThrillMill said:

I think it could work well enough. I'd probably try to leverage the Sleeps to get up close and plat Time Bomb + Trip Mines. In groups, this might prove too slow/difficult. I think it'd be a fine solo'er tho. 

I agree with this entirely.  The build would not be great on teams though, since your pace would be slower than most.

[oedipus_tex]

It kind of depends on what you are expecting out of it. Mind Control is just overall not a great set on Controllers IMO. It's still playable, but I still find it performs below where it should, mainly due to long cooldowns on key powers and difficulty establishing AoE Containment.

 

The main thing that sticks out about Mind/Traps is that Force Field Generator provides mezz protection, which means it is one of the few (IMO) builds where the ideal tertiary pool is not the Psi pool in order to grab Indomitable Will. A Mind/Traps  could instead take the Energy pool for Power Boost. Note that Force Field Generator can't be power boosted, but Total Domination can. This is useful to Mind trollers because it is the best source of AoE Containment available. 

 

Traps also provides the Web Grenade which is worthless on most other builds but valuable to Mind and Illusion Controllers. Also, Caltrops is not that great for other trollers but again shines for those two sets because they lack AoE immobilizes. 

 

Telekinesis might actually be useful for Mind/Traps since you can push enemies into your traps.

 

As a Mind/Traps you will want to obtain Stealth (probably with Super Speed + celerity IO). 

 

 

All of this said, my feeling is still that in terms of raw power, you'd be better suited with either Illusion/Traps or Dark/Traps. Both play fairly similarly to Mind/Traps but have extra tricks in their bag that make them easier to work with, IMO. Mind Control is overall in just a weird place... a set with a pretty good Sleep power that encourages soloing, but then the set isn't that great at soloing. You really don't notice how much lift other Control sets get on their endurance bar by having pets until play Mind Control and every fight drags for eternity. 

[ThrillMill]

FWIW: I've got a Grav/Traps that works really well. 

[Bastille Boy]

These are really helpful answers. Thanks! The comments about group play make me hesitate about this. I want this toon for redside roleplaying, so having a build that works in groups (especially small groups) matters.

 

Mind control is essential to the character concept. I know that mind control has a better reputation as a dominator power, but Mind/Traps would fit the character concept really well. Mind/FF would be a good fit, too. Mind/Pain and Mind/Emp are also possible. [Edit: I considered TA, but it's not a good fit.] Thematically, the only dominator secondary that really fits the character concept is Electric Assault. Mind/Psi is possible but a bit of a stretch.

 

I've rolled one controller and one dominator before and played them to mid-30s. The Mind/Emp controller is great fun on teams but painfully slow solo. The Elec/Elec dominator is too squishy for me. I'm used to playing tankers and scrappers.

Edited October 31, 2019 by ejworthing

[Bastille Boy]

Update: I'm going with Mind/FF. Thematically almost as good as traps, and a less unusual combination.

[Erydanus]

Well I honestly think traps would be just fine on small groups especially in RP groups but whatever works for you! 

 

I actually had a Psi/Traps corruptor I played with a themed supergroup and while traps is kind of an oddball set it was like carrying around a giant utility belt that everyone benefitted from. Since the team was almost all controllers and defenders the force field generator was everyone's favorite. 

[oedipus_tex]

Don't forget Defenders and Corruptors get some of the Mind Control powers in their tertiary pools. Mainly its good for Mass Hypnosis and Dominate (which can be procced out for big damage).

 

Unfortunately World of Confusion is a truly terrible power and not useful as a means of Confusing enemies. 

 

 

 

 

[Bastille Boy]

56 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Don't forget Defenders and Corruptors get some of the Mind Control powers in their tertiary pools. Mainly its good for Mass Hypnosis and Dominate (which can be procced out for big damage).

 

Unfortunately World of Confusion is a truly terrible power and not useful as a means of Confusing enemies. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't thought about tertiary pools, so I hadn't even thought about playing this character as a Defender or Corruptor. The hypnosis powers, domination, and terrify are the three things that are thematically important. Perhaps I could make do with two of the three. Confusion powers would be very much in character for this toon, but they're not essential.

 

I'm in danger of getting a severe case of alt-itis! It's tempting to try out a bunch of combinations (including the original plan) and see how they work.

[Doomguide2005]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:22 PM, ThrillMill said:

FWIW: I've got a Grav/Traps that works really well. 

Oh that sounds like a lot of baddies getting dropped (via Wormhole) into a pile of Acid Mortars, Poison Gas and Trip Mines.