Weighing options in Plant/Savage

[Lazarillo]

I've been working on a melee-heavy Plant/Savage Dominator and I'm trying to kinda finishing touch-tweak the build a bit.  So far, it's been good, opening with seeds and then dashing into the fray (and, later, presumably, Feral Charge-ing into the fray). The slight hiccup I'm running into is trying to determine if I can effectively perma-Dom without sacrificing some of the concept ideas I have. 
For reference, the precise build plan is below.

Spoiler

 

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Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Savage Assault
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(5), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(7), Dvs-Acc/Dmg(31), Dvs-Dmg/EndRdx(31)
Level 1: Call Swarm -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Maiming Slash -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(A), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(3), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(13), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(17)
Level 4: Vicious Slash -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 6: Kick -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- MlsIll-Acc/Rchg(A), MlsIll-EndRdx/Conf(9), MlsIll-Acc/EndRdx(9), MlsIll-Conf/Rng(11), MlsIll-Acc/Conf/Rchg(11)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 12: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 14: Super Jump -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 16: Spot Prey -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Vines -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(19), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(40), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(40)
Level 20: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Rending Flurry -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg(A), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mlt-Acc/EndRdx(23), Mlt-Dmg/Rchg(25), Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Ann-Acc/Dmg(A), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(27), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Blood Craze -- DctWnd-Heal(A), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(34), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(37), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(43)
Level 30: Roots -- SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprAscoft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(31), SprAscoft-EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(40), SprAscoft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(33), CaltoArm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), BldMnd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Water Spout -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(36), SuddAcc-KB/Acc/Dmg(36), SuddAcc-KB/Dmg/Rech(37), SuddAcc-KB/Dmg/End(37)
Level 38: Feral Charge -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Shark Skin -- StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), GldArm-ResDam(42)
Level 44: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(45), ImpArm-ResDam(45)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48), ShlWal-Def(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 50: Cryonic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
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What I'm especially trying to figure out is getting a third melee attack from one of the Power pools.  Originally, I took Air Superiority, since, well, Air Superiority is pretty rad, but it maxed me out on pools, meaning no Hasten, and thus, no Perma-Domination (I'm not sure I'm hitting it anyway, but I think I am).  So since I dipped into fighting anyway, I figured I could take Boxing and Kick, ignore one and slot the other.  Currently, I have Kick as my choice because I've come to really enjoy having Knockdown in all my attacks, however, some of the numbers in Mids' Reborn have me wondering about whether it's the best choice.  How does Kick compare to AS, or even to Boxing, when both the initial Fighting attacks are taken.  Also, is Kick Knock*down* or Knock*back*?  I've seen data that goes both ways.  For anyone who did look at the build, can you think of any ways I can switch back to AS that would also let me keep the equivalent of Stealth (in terms of defense and slotting options) without having to use Hover?

[Coyote]

1: 6-slot Roots if you're going to use 5 of that set, the Ranged Defense bonus for it is too good to pass up. It's certainly better than a bit of extra Defense from a 2nd slot in Stealth.

2: 6-slot Seeds with Malaise (switch to Contagious Confusion at 50), again for the Defense bonus.

3: 6-slot Bood Craze with Preventive Medicine, the bonuses are better than Doctored Wounds.

4: Domination gives you Knockback protection, so I'd drop Acrobatics. If you get perma-Dom you would never want to use it, but even otherwise it's better to find a power to put a KB-protection IO rather than spend the endurance and pick on it.

5: switch Multi-Strike to Obliteration in Rending Flurry.

6: switch Creepers to some set that gives Recharge... Ragnarok or Positron. Positron would add a Damage proc which is nice in it.

7: I really like Gaussian's proc in Spot Prey.

8: If you can find another slot and 6-slot Fly trap with Expedient Reinforcement, you get another 3% to Ranged Defense. At this point you're up to the mid-30s in Ranged Defense, so a single Luck will soft-cap you, and you'll notice a huge difference when ambushes come in.

 

You seem to be chasing resistance and damage, where a Dom's first need is Recharge and second need is Ranged Defense. 4-slotting your melee attacks is getting you neither of those... 6-slotting with Mako's would give you Ranged Defense, or 5-slotting with Crushing Impact would give you Recharge (and allow you to put a Force Feedback proc for more Recharge). Unless you plan to powerlevel to 50 and then into the Incarnate abilities so that you can run Ageless at max level, I don't know if you'll have perma-Dom. Maybe with the Blood Frenzy stacks running.

 

Edit: the only way I see to get Air Sup is to drop the Leaping pool, use Superspeed as the movement power. But you lose a LotG and some defense for it. Also... you have two melee attacks, and you're slotting up Strangler partially as an attack so that will be in your attack chain. Not to mention Feral Charge later, and since you'll want to use that at bunched up targets, following with Rending Flurry will make sense. That's probably enough attacks that getting a 3rd light melee attack is not all that useful. You should easily be able to cycle Strangler-Maiming-slow, where slow is either Vicious or Feral Charge, so you won't have room for a low-DPA filler attack.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Coyote

[Lazarillo]

Appreciate the tips.  I had figured a more balanced approach to defense would be stronger (hence, for example, the use of Multi-Strike) since this particular Dominator does pretty much everything except for Seeds and the initial Feral Charge at close range anyway.  I figured getting everything to 20% (and thus, soft-capping with a medium purple) would be more useful than one aspect to 32.5%, especially when I don't tend to carry small skittles anyway (I prolly woulda Gaussian'd in Spot Prey, yeah, but wasn't sure I had a good path to turn 2 slots into 6, although some of your other ideas lead me towards that possibility...).  I also generally never bother trying to Perma-Dom before 50 anyway just because it seems kind of like a waste before it's possible to add an Alpha-boosted Hasten.  Still, they're possibilities to evaluate.

 

I had forgotten, though, that Domination protected against Knockback, too, so dropping Acrobatics does seem to be in the cards at max level if I can manage Permadom, and similarly, I hadn't thought of Feral Charge being used as a normal part of the attack chain instead of a pool attack altogether, since its gimmick seems to be, well, the charging aspect and I hadn't thought it would do "competitive" damage right in stuff's faces, too.  However, it might...I'll have to re-evaluate when I get to 38.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Frosticus]

feral charge is a 15' aoe that hits 5 targets. It does pretty well with damage procs. I use it in my single target rotation, though its damage is halved at point blank range. It is still as good or better than a pool attack and saves you 4-5 slots that you would have spent on said pool attack.

 

perma dom (while actively playing) on savage is pretty easy and cheap. I dont see a reason to wait until 50 unless you are getting to 50 in a day or two. 

[oedipus_tex]

Take Hover. It;'s the bees knees with Savage Assault. 

 

You can Feral Charge while hovering. This eliminates its normally slow approach speed. Then after you launch at the enemies, hit space bar to float upward. Do what you need to, then Feral Charge again when it's time to re-engage. The distance covered from height adds to the damage and charges generated by the Feral Charge.

 

Hover-Savages are the great undiscovered secret of the game.

[VV]

17 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

 

What I'm especially trying to figure out is getting a third melee attack from one of the Power pools. 

Why in the world would you want to pull a melee attack from a power pool when you have the awesome Savage attacks to choose from??? You have Maiming Slash, Vicious Slash, Rending Fury, and Feral Charge. That is plenty. With perma-hasten-dom levels of recharge, you should be able to roll through that continuously, with no downtime. Then you can always sprinkle in Entangle for ST or Roots for AOE more damage, if you need any filler. Going out to some Pool attack is just going to lower your effectiveness.

 

Also,

37 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Take Hover. It;'s the bees knees with Savage Assault. 

 

You can Feral Charge while hovering. This eliminates its normally slow approach speed. Then after you launch at the enemies, hit space bar to float upward. Do what you need to, then Feral Charge again when it's time to re-engage. The distance covered from height adds to the damage and charges generated by the Feral Charge.

 

Hover-Savages are the great undiscovered secret of the game.

this this THIS! THIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

I have a Dark/Savage who pretty much does this exact thing and it is freaking amazing. And, I don't mean normal amazing, like ridiculous amazing. I have the recharge down to a bit under 3 seconds, and I might try to get it even lower.  She bops around the field like Nightcrawler on speed. I beat most of the meleers to targets and generally take down a white with just a Vicious Slash. In smaller fights, I almost forget to do any controllering. And that ability to quickly float up out of melee range to drop a control or whatever is just sweeeet.

 

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Take Hover. It;'s the bees knees with Savage Assault. 

 

You can Feral Charge while hovering. This eliminates its normally slow approach speed. Then after you launch at the enemies, hit space bar to float upward. Do what you need to, then Feral Charge again when it's time to re-engage. The distance covered from height adds to the damage and charges generated by the Feral Charge.

 

Hover-Savages are the great undiscovered secret of the game.

what do you mean by this?

feral charge is nearly instant for me with a slight pause after it executes before you can get the next power to activate. 

 

with maiming, viscous and feral plus the odd fearsome stare tossed in, I dont have time to really move around much. Until I feral charge the next enemy of course. 

 

I find the best repositioning tool (aside from feral charge) is unkindness as it doesnt root. So you can do decent cone damage and apply 2 -res procs while moving unhindered. 

 

 

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

what do you mean by this?

feral charge is nearly instant for me with a slight pause after it executes before you can get the next power to activate. 

 

with maiming, viscous and feral plus the odd fearsome stare tossed in, I dont have time to really move around much. Until I feral charge the next enemy of course. 

 

I find the best repositioning tool (aside from feral charge) is unkindness as it doesnt root. So you can do decent cone damage and apply 2 -res procs while moving unhindered. 

 

 

 

 

The power does double damage if you execute it from a distance.

 

And yes, you can totally Feral Charge and then fly upward during Unkindness, since it does not root. (Don't tell anyone. 😛 )

 

More generally I fly upward because its safer there, and as a Dominator I need to be doing some lockdown instead of Scrapper-locking. Only at the end of the battle do I do a lot of Feral Charging around.

[Frosticus]

ah ok. I thought maybe hover made it even faster. I'm familiar with the damage mechanics of it. I often just switch targets and bamph over to them.  I'll give hover a try though to see how it feels. I think feral charge (and savage leap) are my two favorite powers these days. 

 

[VV]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:15 PM, oedipus_tex said:

More generally I fly upward because its safer there, and as a Dominator I need to be doing some lockdown instead of Scrapper-locking. Only at the end of the battle do I do a lot of Feral Charging around.

I get SUCH bad scrapperlock when Feral Charging around. I sometimes feel bad because I'll pop in next to an enemy that is already engaged by a friendly, gunch it, and pop out before the ally has even gotten to move. I mean, Feral Charge + Vicious Slash will finish most anything off and you are in and out in under 3 seconds.

[Coyote]

8 hours ago, VV said:

I sometimes feel bad because I'll pop in next to an enemy that is already engaged by a friendly, gunch it, and pop out before the ally has even gotten to move.

 

It's okay to do it to scrappers and Brutes 😛