[Proposal] Unnerf Telekinesis

[Redlynne]

Original post LINK.

 

Telekinesis is a unique power, but its extreme endurance cost and built-in repel makes it both difficult to control and very situational.  A quick fix would be to lessen or remove the repel effect and potentially lessen the endurance cost, thus broadening its ability to be used while keeping its unique feel.

 

City of Data: Telekinesis

 

Telekinesis suffers from what amounts to a TRIPLE WHAMMY put on it by Cryptic/Paragon Studios when they implemented the Control NERF that included putting caps on aggro.  Whereas before the nerf, Telekinesis could affect an unlimited number of $Targets within the 10ft radius Sphere around your anchor target, which is when Telekinesis REALLY started to shine ... after the nerf Telekinesis could only affect a maximum of five $Targets.

 

FIVE.

 

This meant that although Total Domination (and other "mass" control powers like it) had a max target cap of 16 ... Telekinesis was nerfed into the ground with a max target cap of only FIVE targets affected, maximum.

 

FIVE.

 

That meant you couldn't do THIS anymore ... (yes, I was playing at 640x480 resolution back in those days) ...

 

 

I count TEN Skyraiders being held/repelled by Telekinesis in that image.

Not five ... TEN.

 

Needless to say, all efforts to correct this massively unfair (and totally unnecessary) "fix" to Telekinesis fell on deaf ears at Cryptic/Paragon Studios ... even though the actual solution to this specific problem involved changing a SINGLE parameter for the power.

 

Step 1: delete "5" from max targets table cell

Step 2: replace with "16" in the max targets table cell

Step 3: DONE

 

Apparently, this was "too much work" or something to get done in multiple years after the nerf ruined Telekinesis as a MASS Hold power.  Yes, I'm still bitter that no one on staff thought this was worth the effort it would take to fix.  They made a mistake and resolved never to correct it.  Thanks guys!

 

 

 

Now the bigger problem with Telekinesis was that it was originally balanced around the notion that it could hold an unlimited number of targets within a 10ft AoE around the anchor $Target, with "extras" within that AoE able to fall out of that radius if the Repel aspect of the power allowed them all to drift too far apart from each other ... which was quite possible in the absence of convenient terrain to "corner pack" them all into (see above picture for reference of exactly this).  That's because the Repel always moved Foes AWAY from the CASTER, and since $Targets refused to stay in a nice straight line (forever) this meant that over time they'd essentially "drift apart" on different vectors unless there was some kind of terrain to push them together into.

 

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case anymore, though.  One of the tools that became available long after Telekinesis was put into the game was the ability for powers to open up OTHER POWERS, like with Kheldian Forms and later Swap Ammo in Dual Pistols and so on.

 

What Telekinesis REALLY needs to be is a 2-in-1 power where the power pick opens up 2 subsidiary powers, both of which would be Toggles.

• The main power would be a Hold Toggle that does everything Telekinesis does right now MINUS the Repel effect.
  
• The second (sub) power would be a Repel Toggle that applies the Repel effect of Telekinesis only onto the $Target affected by Telekinesis (so use the same anchor) plus a 10ft radius around that $Target.
  
• Furthmore, the second (sub) power for the Repel effect could only be Toggled on while the main (sub) power Hold Toggle effect was toggled on.  As soon as the Hold of Telekinesis is detoggled, the Repel of Telekinesis is automatically detoggled with it and both powers go into Recharge (base 60 seconds for each).

This way, you'd be able to toggle on/off the Repel effect of Telekinesis "on demand" rather that suffering from an (unwanted) "Always On" condition (that doesn't help you any most of the time).

 

The way that I would implement this would be to alter the Hold Toggle side of Telekinesis to make the Repel effect conditional upon a designated buff effect being put onto the caster (no buff on Caster, no Repel effect added to the 10ft radius Target AoE Telekinesis).  You then just make the Repel Toggle add this designated buff add to the Caster.

 

The Endurance Cost of Telekinesis on City of Data is 1.56 END per 0.5 sec activation.

I would recommend splitting this not in a 1:1 fashion of two halves, but rather into a 2:1 ratio of thirds.

• Make the main power with the Hold Toggle cost 1.04 END per 0.5 sec activation.
  
• Make the second (sub) power with the Repel Toggle (self buff enable) cost 0.52 END per 0.5 sec activation.
  
• Total cost with both Toggles active ... 1.56 END per 0.5 sec activation.

 

 

And THAT is how you take a power that was nerfed into the ground by Cryptic/Paragon Studios and REFACTOR it to yield the exact same performance in a MUCH more controllable state that makes the power actually worth taking (and using), rather than keeping it as an annoying novelty that hardly anyone makes use of and which is extremely prone to making a mess of herding in team situations.

 

Your move ... Dev Team.

[JusticeBowler]

What does telekinesis look like without the repel? Just another hold that you pay for per tick? To me, the "push" is the essential element, not the hold.

 

I'd prefer the other way around. Turn Telekinesis into something more like a immobilize w/push that doesn't actually hold the targets. Put that up to 16 max (or whatever the max for immobilize powers are running). Then add the hold back in as a secondary toggle or additional effect/power whatever.

 

Not that I'm being contrary wise, but I thought I'd offer a different way to look at the same problem. I do agree that there is a problem. I just like my solution better. :)

[Ashgan]

Wouldn't this make it OP, the mind set already has an AoE hold, giving it 2 and especially one that is permanent would be overkill. 

if you do really want to make it better I feel 5 targets is fine for an ability that can run permanently but I would increase the AoE on it maybe as it tends to loose hold on targets when they float too far away from each other or get stuck on random terrain.

 

or maybe on top of the push give it a pull to the center (your target) this way getting all 5 is mostly guaranteed and it can snag more enemies as they die or in case of boss level mobs who just run out to snag other mobs that pass by.

[Sarkastik Observer]

I would say remove the repel effect all together and since all of minds aoe holds are mass versions of the single target powers.. Without dmg.. Make it a immob or keep it as a hold that does smashing dot. This would give mind an aoe dmg power and a immob for containment/dominate. This would make up for the lack of a pet and the fact that seeds of confusion exist. Also if it's turned into a immob raising the target max should be no problem at all since they can still attack.

 

You don't even have to change the way it looks.. They can just float in place taking smashing dot.

[Solarverse]

What does telekinesis look like without the repel? Just another hold that you pay for per tick? To me, the "push" is the essential element, not the hold.

 

I'd prefer the other way around. Turn Telekinesis into something more like a immobilize w/push that doesn't actually hold the targets. Put that up to 16 max (or whatever the max for immobilize powers are running). Then add the hold back in as a secondary toggle or additional effect/power whatever.

 

Not that I'm being contrary wise, but I thought I'd offer a different way to look at the same problem. I do agree that there is a problem. I just like my solution better. :)

 

God no!

[Redlynne]

Now the bigger problem with Telekinesis was that it was originally balanced around the notion that it could hold an unlimited number of targets within a 10ft AoE around the anchor $Target, with "extras" within that AoE able to fall out of that radius if the Repel aspect of the power allowed them all to drift too far apart from each other ... which was quite possible in the absence of convenient terrain to "corner pack" them all into (see above picture for reference of exactly this).  That's because the Repel always moved Foes AWAY from the CASTER, and since $Targets refused to stay in a nice straight line (forever) this meant that over time they'd essentially "drift apart" on different vectors unless there was some kind of terrain to push them together into.

 

That doesn't necessarily have to be the case anymore, though.  One of the tools that became available long after Telekinesis was put into the game was the ability for powers to open up OTHER POWERS, like with Kheldian Forms and later Swap Ammo in Dual Pistols and so on.

 

What Telekinesis REALLY needs to be is a 2-in-1 power where the power pick opens up 2 subsidiary powers, both of which would be Toggles.

• The main power would be a Hold Toggle that does everything Telekinesis does right now MINUS the Repel effect.
  
• The second (sub) power would be a Repel Toggle that applies the Repel effect of Telekinesis only onto the $Target affected by Telekinesis (so use the same anchor) plus a 10ft radius around that $Target.
  
• Furthmore, the second (sub) power for the Repel effect could only be Toggled on while the main (sub) power Hold Toggle effect was toggled on.  As soon as the Hold of Telekinesis is detoggled, the Repel of Telekinesis is automatically detoggled with it and both powers go into Recharge (base 60 seconds for each).

This way, you'd be able to toggle on/off the Repel effect of Telekinesis "on demand" rather that suffering from an (unwanted) "Always On" condition (that doesn't help you any most of the time).

 

The way that I would implement this would be to alter the Hold Toggle side of Telekinesis to make the Repel effect conditional upon a designated buff effect being put onto the caster (no buff on Caster, no Repel effect added to the 10ft radius Target AoE Telekinesis).  You then just make the Repel Toggle add this designated buff add to the Caster.

 

The Endurance Cost of Telekinesis on City of Data is 1.56 END per 0.5 sec activation.

I would recommend splitting this not in a 1:1 fashion of two halves, but rather into a 2:1 ratio of thirds.

• Make the main power with the Hold Toggle cost 1.04 END per 0.5 sec activation.
  
• Make the second (sub) power with the Repel Toggle (self buff enable) cost 0.52 END per 0.5 sec activation.
  
• Total cost with both Toggles active ... 1.56 END per 0.5 sec activation.

 

I still firmly believe that this is the most elegant solution to resolving the structural problem(s) with use of Telekinesis ... Repel On Demand.

 

The only other thing that needs to be done to Telekinesis is allow it to affect 16 Max Targets instead of only 5.

[HeroReborn]

My dream for TK, (though I'm doubtful of the tech) is to have it attract rather than repel.

 

Target an enemy as normal, but instead of sending near by foe away, near by foes are dragged to the one with TK. 

 

Still with a 5 target cap, limiting it's farming use but now you have a tool that's appreciated by the melee range types, instead of them yelling at you to stop that pushing thing. Still a toggle so you'll probably hit them with one or two AoE's before having to drop it.

 

I'm also 100% agreement with the original proposal. Especially as it would seem easier to implent and see how it's used.