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Just can't find a proper set for Thugs. T____T


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So my first mastermind ever to hit lvl 50 was a merc/traps back on live, it was cool having all those gadgets, especially the mortar, poison trap and ff generator, just a little bit of everything except a good direct heal like Twilight Grasp, so they died sometimes because i couldn't keep up with spaming Aid Other.
The second was a Necro/Dark here on homecoming where i completely fell in love with Dark Miasma and it's good heals, defenses, debuffs and a 7th pet for additional support on top of all that.

I've also played a Ninja/Dark mm upto lvl 46 and a Ninja/Time mm upto lvl 38 before discontinuing them and just planing to have 2 masterminds, one with melee pets (my necro) and one with ranged ones which i wanted to use Thugs because i always wanted to play them but never did for some reason.


So I've played a Thugs/Poison mm upto lvl 38 and after realizing that Noxious Gas is just something you can use just now and then and I saw no possible way to get the cd lower then it's duration I've also quit playing him because with poison I'm just left with those low area debuffs, a crappy single target-heal all while none of my minions can heal each other or themselves, no means of +def or +res from this set and a power for which i need to wait all the time when i wanna use it again while the non mm version has a coldown of only 8 seconds. T_T

So I wanna reroll a Thugs/X mm yet again but I just can't see which set would be best for them.

My second thought was Radiation, at least it has an aoe heal but it's just a shame that you can't use Fallout on your dead pets, at least that's what i've heard (please feel free to correct me on this.)

I don't know if Traps would pair well with Thugs and makes them able to sustain fights since there's no option of healing them other than the medicine pool and the regeneration from the triangle beacon.

Time manipulation sounds nice, it was also kinda good on my ninja/time mm, but I just can't find any fitting concept for its use on Thugs.


Yeah so... so far I am leaning between Traps and Rad but can't decide which one to pick. 😕

I'd love to play traps but i'm afrait that I can't keep my pets alive with it.


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You can't, unfortunately, use Fallout on dead pets.


Concept for Thugs/Time? You could be a mad genius who has been experimenting with the Space/Time continuum. After mastering it, you decide to enlist a gang to help you rid the forces of evil(or good if you're a villain). Or you could be from the future and have come back in time with your gang to help fight the good (or evil) fight.

 Thugs is a great set. I use Gang War as a "mule " to slot the Pet Defense IOs. Keep in mind that Thugs has Defense, and Enforcers have Leadership (Maneuvers in particular). Time would help get your pets Soft Capped. The same could be said for the FFG in Traps.

 I,personally,  would go with Time as it offers heals, buffs,debuffs, holds, and recharge/end recovery. Not knocking Traps at all (I have a bots/traps). Traps DOES offer a lot (defense, hold,-regen, a lite bit of -to hit), but ,like you said, doesnt really have a reliable heal.

 Now, let's talk Radiation. My main from live was  a fire/rad troller that solo'd every GM and AV. I haven't looked at the differences in values between a troller and an MM with /Rad, so I dont know how the 2 would compare.  I WILL say that /Rad has always been known as the AV Killer. -To hit? Check. -Defense? Yep.

-Resistance? Yeah. -Regen? Of course.

 Radiation Infection, Enervating Field, and Lingering Rad neuters all that. The massive to hit debuff will stack and pair quite nicely with the Thugs' defenses and Enforcers' Leadership (and of course your own Leadership toggles because, well, that's a given). You can slot out your heal and AM to really help out you,your pets, and your team. I cant say enough good things about Rad. 


 I guess you could look at it like this...Time will give you a few tools to help with Crowd Control(and this your survivability), while Rad will just let you take down an enemy faster. A LOT faster.

 Also, Rad can be end hungry. Running RI,EF, and then your Leadership Toggles, and any other toggles you might get, can get costly especially in a long drawn out fight. Be sure to slot some End Reduction in your toggles, slot Stamina, and pick up whatever End Recovery bonuses you can get thru IOs.

Edited by Xandyr
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Thugs/Dark is a top-tier combination. It's easy to use and scales really well into more difficult content. 


/Dark is uniquely equipped among all sets to maximize the usage of Gang War - no other set has this much -damage debuff combined with aoe healing to guarantee the posse will survive for its full duration. The damage delivered by a full duration Gang War buffed with Hybrid Assault Radial is pretty ridiculous. Thugs sport both good single target and good AoE, and /Dark assists in both situations with AoE debuffs(Fearsome Stare/Darkest Night/Chill of the Night) and roughly -500% regen on AVs. /Dark also teaches you good pet positioning habits - keeping the pets close to you for Grasp healing also keeps them close enough to benefit from all the short-range auras.

While the thugs can be def softcapped, it's better to practice from early on to tankermind for them. Your defenses will always be superior, and Twilight Grasp will easily cover any damage you take. You can reach 32.5% S/L Def combined with capped SLE res, making you incredibly tanky. 

There's other combinations which can do better in specific circumstances, but Thugs/Dark is a low skill floor, high skill ceiling combo which works well with and without good gear, has an excellent levelling progression and has great potential when fully geared. You can't go wrong with it, as long as you like /Dark's concept.

Edited by BGSacho
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Thanks a lot for the input guys, I guess I'll go with radiation then.
I would have taken Dark from the beginning of course and never made this thread if I didn't already have a Necro/Dark mm.

I know that 90% of what I appreciate so much on my Necro mm goes back to his secondary, i've come to love /Dark over everything else and thats kinda why I stopped playing my Ninja/Dark mm, because the experience was so similar (altough it probably wouldn't be that much similar if i had ranged pets that actually stayed back like with thugs, mercs or robots).


I don't know which powers I'll take as placeholders if i skip skills like Fallout and Mutation but I'll try to find something like from the Heat Mastery or Mace pool (altough yet again I already took the Mace pool on my necro).
Perhaps it's a bit contraproductive to fixate myself too much on not having the same power pools with my characters, I just want them to be as different from one another as possible if I take the same Archetype.

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/Traps is one of the best ones, that forcefield bubble with the anti-mez pairs very well with the buffs from the enforcers. Add in caltrops, poison traps, two stacking triage beacons and generally more well behaved pets following the patch and you have an unstoppable character.


It should actually perform better than bots/traps in missions due to thugs having more raw damage, so they kill bosses much faster than bots. Bot's main strength is blowing up Minions/LTs and debuffing AVs/GMs.


/Time, /dark, /storm (LOTS of damage with this combo.) /traps and /cold should all work very, very well. I'm more familiar with /dark, traps and /storm, than the others, though.

Edited by ScarySai
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I'm gonna underscore Thugs/Time. I've got mine fully incarnated. He's and the boys are a buzzsaw. Time offers everything Thugs need to keep causing their mischief:


AoE healing with HoTs that can be used preemptively before taking damage.


-To Hit and -Damage Slow aura to debuff enemies.


Slow and Hold proc field.


+To Hit and +Defense, easily soft capped. 




Single Target +Damage and Regen for your Bruiser or Arsonist.


A ST hold for annoying Lts.


I won't argue /Dark. It's the other clear chief of secondaries for MMs, and I love it on my Demons. Totally different approach from Time. Both have control elements but Time focuses more on buffing and Dark focuses on debuffing.



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@Force Redux on Everlasting

----- (read my guide) -----

Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds

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My latest MM is Thugs/Time and yes to the above.  I skip the ST buff from Time, mostly I like to have at least 2 attacks.  


I haven't made a Thugs/Cold, but I am an enthusiast for both sets (I'd advise Aid Other for this) so I expect it would rule too.

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