Alternate Difficulty Playthrough: Diffusion Dimension

[Leogunner]

 This is a concept for a difficulty option that incorporates some ideas I've read around on the forums as well as some that I thought of.  Questions how to implement are kind of out of the scope of the discussion but it's more an exercise in hypotheticals, meaning I don't claim this is THE solution or even A solution, rather if the dynamics might be more interesting than merely increasing incoming damage or foe levels.  Feel free to hate it, pick it apart jranger it.  I don't care lol.

 

Lore Description

Spoiler

 

[Not that important, subject to change.]

 

The Diffusion Dimension concept is an alternate reality that is directly linked to, affected by and mirrors our current (in-game) reality.  The mystery behind this reality is expounded on by the hero Mirror Spirit and the villain Psimon Omega.  Either to seek a path beyond the erasure of all of existence or as a means of attaining and understanding greater power, you must step one foot into the Diffusion Dimension and straddle the boarders of both it and ours, collecting information and knowledge along the way.  

 

 

 

Mechanics Description

Spoiler

 

At the creation of a character, you are given access to a "Diffusion Build".  To swap to this build, you must speak with a trainer.  Only while in this build can you participate in Diffusion Dimension content.  While using this build, the contacts you can interact with will change, different rules will be enforced and you can only team with players who are also equipped with their Diffusion Build (it will prompt the swap if you are currently not on a diffusion build).

 

All contacts and missions are the same but the dialog, story/flavor text and enemies will be different.  It's basically a kind of recycling of all the content, just with mostly new text.  Some humorous, some serious, some dark.  Only mission instances are affected, not overworld content.

 

 

 

Enemy Changes

Spoiler

 

One aspect of foes I never liked is their limited access to powers.  I don't want to give them a bunch of powers but more variety, minions and up.  One particular shift will be taking away some innate def/resistances and giving the NPCs toggle powers.  Some my say "but NPCs can't use toggles" to which I'd point you to a Tsoo Sorcerer and similar mobs who have AoE debuff or buff powers that can be suppressed/dropped with mez.  You'd just have to set their AI to not turn it off if they can keep it going.  There should also be more variety.  So some Tsoo minions would get Focused Senses and Practiced Brawler, another might have Lucky+Dodge+Agile and still yet some might have Heightened Senses + Resurgence. Attacks would also be a bit more varied with Lts occasionally having access to things with a bit more bite.  I think Bosses, overall, are in a good place but perhaps make their AI a bit better with some resistance to taunt.  In conjunction to all of that, foes will activate their toggles when approaching their perception radius unless you are using stealth.  They may not be privy to your exact position but they've been warned by your presence and are on guard.   

 

Overall, foes from minion up to EBs and AVs will have around 3-4 more powers that will mirror our own powers.  The values of these powers is what scales with difficulty.

 

 

 

Mechanics Changes

Spoiler

So with more foes having toggles, some changes to toggle dropping.  Just like us, these foe toggles are suppressed under mez (hold, stun, sleep) unless they are foe affecting toggles (like a debuff aura...those will detoggle).  Reducing their END so they don't have enough also detoggles (making sapping a great tool for softening up tough foes...if they don't resist it) as well a KNOCKBACK over the threshold of the Knockdown conversion has a chance to knock off toggles (the higher the magnitude of KB, the higher the chance of knocking off 1 or more toggles).  

 

 

Progression Changes

Spoiler

 

The paradigm will be greatly shifted.  First of all, none of the enhancements in the game currently can be slotted in a Diffusion Build, only specific attuned Diffused enhancements that would be purchased using a kind of merit drop from the Diffusion content.  No AE.  No farmed inf.  No AH.  And the only means of gaining exp is through mission completion (exp and bonuses would be buffed to reflect this).  Teams would also be limited to 6 instead of 8.

 

So why would anyone bother playing in this ridiculous setting with harshly and scarce enhancement availability?  Well one major difference between standard builds and diffusion builds is the moment you're plopped into Atlas Park or Mercy Island or wherever you choose to start, through your diffusion build you have access to all 40 of your powers.  So if you want to get a feel for your character and all its powers and how they mix, you can start battling it out with this build.  Also, you still gain regular rewards usable by your other builds (merits, inf, drops...just not exp) so it can be a way to fund this on the side.

 

Because you have all your powers at level 1, leveling up is mainly only granting enhancement slots and slot unlocks.  Slot unlocks are granted at the levels you'd normally gain access to a power but instead, you're gaining access to put slots in that power...the difference is, you're getting access to any power of your choosing to slot, not just the one that would unlock at lvl 26 or 32 etc.  Of course, you're still sitting on 40 powers with no slots.

 

Another unique attribute to contacts is there is 0 outleveling them.  They have no cap and no limit.  They will still be adjusted to your relative difficulty but you're effectively max level and level 1 at the same time.  You can take your SS/SJ and start doing radios in PI, contacts in Croatoa or finish all the story arcs in King's Row/Skyway.  There would also be no limit on red, blue or gold.  Those using Diffusion Builds can shift sides and do contacts from either side or both.

 

 

Overview

• Optional setting triggered by a special build and only those using said special build can team with each other.
• Same instanced content, just different text and enemies.
• Enemy groups have specific pools they can draw from that they get randomized powers from.
• Enemy stats (resists, defense, etc) and capabilities more tied to the powers they use
• Foes use toggles more and persistently.
• Different mechanics for toggle suppression and toggle dropping diffused to all NPC foes.
• Specialized build requires specialized enhancements only obtainable through participation.
• Get all 40 powers at the start.
• All contact missions are levelless.
• Access to all content, blue, red or gold.

[EmmySky]

I can see how this could add a layer of difficulty for those players who want the game harder but don't like self-imposed limitations.  This imposes those limitations for you.  Not sure about how you mean for having all powers at lvl 1 to work, especially with empty or no slots, I foresee end issues but that may be an added difficulty thing.  Also not sure about the limiting who can team with whom as there is a rather small player base and dividing it might not work out well (although I fully understand and agree with your reasons for it).

 

I think this is an excellent start at offering options to people who want them without taking options away from people who like what we have now. 

[DR_Mechano]

I will point out that yes NPCs really CAN'T use toggles. IIRC they way they mimic it is they have a long lasting but low recharge click power which acts like a toggle. So for the Hurricane example they immediately fire off the power the moment they're out of mez again. This is how Sorcerers can use Hurricane even if they're completely End drained whilst it's running.

 

Of course this was explained a long time ago so I'm not sure if the way things work has been changed even before sunset meaning that things might be different now.

[Leogunner]

4 hours ago, EmmySky said:

I can see how this could add a layer of difficulty for those players who want the game harder but don't like self-imposed limitations.  This imposes those limitations for you.  Not sure about how you mean for having all powers at lvl 1 to work, especially with empty or no slots, I foresee end issues but that may be an added difficulty thing.  Also not sure about the limiting who can team with whom as there is a rather small player base and dividing it might not work out well (although I fully understand and agree with your reasons for it).

 

I think this is an excellent start at offering options to people who want them without taking options away from people who like what we have now. 

To me, the problem with suggesting self imposed limitations on this game is that it cuts off a greater part of what makes this game interesting: customization. Imaine suggesting people only use the pre-made costume options and limiting powerset options like pre-powerset proliferation. Since this game isn't twich gameplay but more strategic, a great deal of the strategy is in the build. So a great amount of pleasure comes from stacking and progressing in a build... But to get more play, we should not play (customizing build)?

 

As for the all powers at level 1, I think that would be the fun dynamic of this mode. Since you can unlock powers of your choice, you will have weaknesses starting out. END, acc, protection, etc. If you have players playing off each other's chosen strengths, you can work together so those weaknesses aren't as apparent. 

 

Solo, you're going to have to hold back or else you might exhaust yourself (kind of like a real super hero that has a power or technique they aren't yet comfortable with using often but if pushed into a corner, might dig deep and use it anyway. 

 

As for limiting who you can team with, everyone has access to this special build so it would only be limiting if a player doesn't wish to use that build. It's important that this build not be used to PL in low levels or having a tweeked out incarnate builds PLing these. 

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

I will point out that yes NPCs really CAN'T use toggles. IIRC they way they mimic it is they have a long lasting but low recharge click power which acts like a toggle. So for the Hurricane example they immediately fire off the power the moment they're out of mez again. This is how Sorcerers can use Hurricane even if they're completely End drained whilst it's running.

 

Of course this was explained a long time ago so I'm not sure if the way things work has been changed even before sunset meaning that things might be different now.

I'll have to test to reassure but I've seen plenty of mobs have their power turned off and they not turn back on despite it normally staying on much longer. The behemoth invincibility power comes to mind. 

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Leogunner said:

As for the all powers at level 1, I think that would be the fun dynamic of this mode. Since you can unlock powers of your choice, you will have weaknesses starting out. END, acc, protection, etc. If you have players playing off each other's chosen strengths, you can work together so those weaknesses aren't as apparent. 

Wouldn't it have the opposite effect, though?  If players have access to all the higher level armours, mez resistence, end management tools, heals etc, they'll be able to cherry pick the good stuff and be less reliant on others in the early levels.  Even with no slotting, there are some tremendously good powers with no or low end cost, or very long durations, or where the main benefit of slots is better recharge.  It would certainly do wonders for my level 1 fire/ice/fire blaster to have access to Blaze, Frigid Protection, Hasten, Rise of the Phoenix and Bonfire, even with no slots.  Blaze has twice the end cost of Fire Blast, sure, but it also does more than three times the damage, especially with my level 1 access to Aim and Build Up giving it decent accuracy.

 

(I've noticed with suggestions for increased difficulty that they often come paired with suggestions that immediately lowers the difficulty again.)

[Leogunner]

33 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Wouldn't it have the opposite effect, though?  If players have access to all the higher level armours, mez resistence, end management tools, heals etc, they'll be able to cherry pick the good stuff and be less reliant on others in the early levels.  Even with no slotting, there are some tremendously good powers with no or low end cost, or very long durations, or where the main benefit of slots is better recharge.  It would certainly do wonders for my level 1 fire/ice/fire blaster to have access to Blaze, Frigid Protection, Hasten, Rise of the Phoenix and Bonfire, even with no slots.  Blaze has twice the end cost of Fire Blast, sure, but it also does more than three times the damage, especially with my level 1 access to Aim and Build Up giving it decent accuracy.

 

(I've noticed with suggestions for increased difficulty that they often come paired with suggestions that immediately lowers the difficulty again.)

Are you taking into consideration that the foes would also have increased stats and varied powers? 

 

I say, how would you fare in level 40+ content but with few or no slots? Because technically you could go straight to Bricktown right after you roll up your character and those Outcast missions you have in the hollows would have minions and LTs with powers like Fire Shield, Smoke and Rise of the Phoenix. 

[Saiyajinzoningen]

This is an interesting idea for increased difficulty. I do like and want a greater difficulty level. This would bring back the need for crowd control and various strategies and techniques that are rarely employed due to overpowered heroes steamrolling content. However I can see this creating a a caste-like system where elite players either cannot or will not interact with non diffusion dimension (newbs) players. While a good idea, i'm not sure how practical it is. for example:

 

new type of respec,
new enhancements and or possible sets and bonus' 

Is oro disabled? if not, whats its purpose if no arc is level locked?

Street sweeping are all mobs now limitless? like GM's? (not powerful obviously, but it no longer matters what your actual level is)

recoding of most mobs with new powers

recoding team size

 

This project would be an overwhelming amount of time effort and testing. It might be easier to just create a new shard with some of these settings. Call it the hardcore shard or something. I like this idea in theory i just don't know how viable its implementation is.

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Grouchybeast said:

(I've noticed with suggestions for increased difficulty that they often come paired with suggestions that immediately lowers the difficulty again.)

Pretty much this...   hard to discern if it's actually a hidden request for MOAR POWAH or not.

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

This is an interesting idea for increased difficulty. I do like and want a greater difficulty level. This would bring back the need for crowd control and various strategies and techniques that are rarely employed due to overpowered heroes steamrolling content. However I can see this creating a a caste-like system where elite players either cannot or will not interact with non diffusion dimension (newbs) players. 

I don't see it that way. I do see a possibility for a bit of a divide but it'd be more in regard to players who have advanced their diffusion dimension build vs those who have not. Participating in certain TF/SF without advancing the build may cause more difficult encountered which might be beyond some player's patience, kind of like how some will rage quit if a wipe/near wipe occurs and dipping out asap. 

 

It wouldn't be particularly elitist not interacting with non-diffusion build because the only way to play together is using the same type of build. And all will have access to both. 

 

3 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

new type of respec,

new enhancements and or possible sets and bonus' 

Is oro disabled? if not, whats its purpose if no arc is level locked?

Street sweeping are all mobs now limitless? like GM's? (not powerful obviously, but it no longer matters what your actual level is)

recoding of most mobs with new powers

recoding team size

It would require a new type of respec, particularly with regards to slot unlocks making slotting available for a power. 

 

No new enhancements. It would be all the same (SO, DO, IO and sets), the only difference is how they are flagged. They are attuned and flagged as untradeable and only slottable in the special build. Same set bonuses but it requires another level of commitment to get all your sets without farming inf. 

 

I mentioned that this difficulty is only for instanced content. Not Street sweeping. In fact, the only method of gaining exp for this build is mission completion, not individual mob defeats. 

 

Yes, the idea would require more work. Lots of coding. I'm not denying the difficulty of implementation. 

[Leogunner]

4 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Pretty much this...   hard to discern if it's actually a hidden request for MOAR POWAH or not.

I can only presume this thought is in regards to the suggestion making all 40 powers available at level 1.

 

I'll reiterate that the purpose of that is to incentive players to play in this mode.  Because in MMOs, you tend to tie risks and rewards in some way.  This incentive allows players to have a character who has all their powers and techniques from the start rather than being allowed to or trained to use these powers as you acquire security levels.  Another incentive is that the content is no longer gated by level so players can duke it out with scaled up Skulls and Trolls rather than be limited to the same level ranged foes one cycles through once they reach max level.

 

So it's hardly "more power" especially when you take into consideration the plethora of other harsh restrictions.  In fact, you'll be at the exact same level of power once you unlock all the slots and obtain all your enhancements...it's just that the journey is different (both in the progress of obtaining slots and enhancements as well as the mobs you fight against).

[Leogunner]

I also forgot to comment about Ouroboros and re-doing missions which, frankly, isn't particularly important.  I could see a lore reason being made that requires an extensive unlock process...but more importantly, I forgot about how Incarnates factor into the suggestion...

 

I honestly didn't think that far.  Unsure how they'd fit in but maybe these could link into the mechanics of flashback.  I dunno.  Open to ideas.

[Leogunner]

11 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

I will point out that yes NPCs really CAN'T use toggles. IIRC they way they mimic it is they have a long lasting but low recharge click power which acts like a toggle. So for the Hurricane example they immediately fire off the power the moment they're out of mez again. This is how Sorcerers can use Hurricane even if they're completely End drained whilst it's running.

 

Of course this was explained a long time ago so I'm not sure if the way things work has been changed even before sunset meaning that things might be different now.

Ok, I just tested it on a few CoT mobs, the Spectral Daemon Lords and the Behemoths.  I used Will domination the moment they finish the animation for their toggle power which suppresses the power.  I then immediately cast Mental Blast to wake them up.  On all cases, their toggle power didn't reactivate once awakened.

 

I've heard this explanation that NPCs can't use toggles before and that these powers aren't true toggles but behave exactly like toggles.  I didn't test if the powers detoggle once drained of END but if that aspect can't be done, I'll take hard mez merely suppressing toggles (maybe have sleep have a rolling chance to detoggle every few seconds they remain asleep) and KB having the chance to drop toggles completely, giving KB another niche in this mode.

 

Feel free to bring up more tests as I don't think people really put much thought into those mechanics...I guess another thing I could do is get off my lazy duff and start making AE mobs like I used to.  I just know that mob AI acts weird when you give them too many powers.  That being said, back when I was making mobs, giving some of the minions of my suped up Hellions faction Rise of the Phoenix and some Melt Armor made dealing with quite difficult.  With that RotP untouchable state afterwards means you have to bide your time with those.

[Grouchybeast]

8 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Are you taking into consideration that the foes would also have increased stats and varied powers? 

 

I say, how would you fare in level 40+ content but with few or no slots? Because technically you could go straight to Bricktown right after you roll up your character and those Outcast missions you have in the hollows would have minions and LTs with powers like Fire Shield, Smoke and Rise of the Phoenix. 

Well, I can only take that into consideration so far, without knowing how much more powerful they'd be.  I just think it's odd to come up with a detailed system to make the game harder, and then immediately turn around and make it easier again so people will want to play it, especially if the premise is that there's a large unmet demand for harder content.

 

Having done the full range of levels for the No Enhancements Ouro badges, I would say that it was a little tiresome but very far from impossible to fight enemies from 10-50 with nothing slotted.  Of course, that's not quite equivalent because Ouro uses the exemping rules to restrict available powers, and at high levels I paired up No Enhancements with No Epics, so the proposed system would be significantly less restrictive than the badge requirements.

[Leogunner]

2 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Well, I can only take that into consideration so far, without knowing how much more powerful they'd be.  I just think it's odd to come up with a detailed system to make the game harder, and then immediately turn around and make it easier again so people will want to play it, especially if the premise is that there's a large unmet demand for harder content.

 

Having done the full range of levels for the No Enhancements Ouro badges, I would say that it was a little tiresome but very far from impossible to fight enemies from 10-50 with nothing slotted.  Of course, that's not quite equivalent because Ouro uses the exemping rules to restrict available powers, and at high levels I paired up No Enhancements with No Epics, so the proposed system would be significantly less restrictive than the badge requirements.

Well, like I said before, I proposed the suggestion that way not to make it easier but so that all the content can be scaled for any level so exemping isn't required.

[Grouchybeast]

Just now, Leogunner said:

Well, like I said before, I proposed the suggestion that way not to make it easier but so that all the content can be scaled for any level so exemping isn't required.

So the powers enemy groups have access to would be determined by how many slots characters have unlocked?  That's an interesting idea, and it could definitely work in missions.  What would you do about groups with mixed levels, or zone street sweeping?

[Leogunner]

11 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

So the powers enemy groups have access to would be determined by how many slots characters have unlocked?  That's an interesting idea, and it could definitely work in missions.  What would you do about groups with mixed levels, or zone street sweeping?

I didn't particularly intend for that as I think it might be difficult to program that way without making lots of similar copies of a mob type. I could see that working within the scope of my idea, though. 

 

What I had intended is for the difficulty slider to alter the strength of their powers. So using the -1 setting on a Hellion that happens to have Fire Shield, the effectiveness of the shield would be reduced by (ballpark estimate) 25%. +0 would be at like -10%, and +1 would be neutral. At higher difficulty, it might be difficult on a fire blaster to take out even minions with splash damage alone. 

 

And Street sweeping isn't affected, only instances. 

 

That being said, I think another consideration might be how the powers skew damage types. Smashing and lethal are both balled into the above Hellion example and would face resistance practically any time a mob has some sort of extra armor toggle. 

 

A way to remedy this might be to adjust such powers so the s/l portion isn't enhanced by difficulty unless it is a power aimed at s/l like invulnerability... Or maybe certain effects or powers within primary s/l sets can get added utility in the ability to drop toggles in some way. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Leogunner

[Grouchybeast]

2 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

What I had intended is for the difficulty slider to alter the strength of their powers. So using the -1 setting on a Hellion that happens to have Fire Shield, the effectiveness of the shield would be reduced by (ballpark estimate) 25%. +0 would be at like -10%, and +1 would be neutral. 

 

And Street sweeping isn't affected, only instances. 

I'm not sure this completely solve the usual issue with broadly scaling content, which is that the lower level zones will either be unplayably difficult for low level characters or very easy for high level characters to farm.  But giving a significant power buff to low level characters to let them narrow the gap to the high level characters is certainly a novel way of approaching it.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Seems like a lot of dev time to make happen that could and should be spent elsewhere. This sounds more like something fit for a different coh server entirely.

[Leogunner]

47 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Seems like a lot of dev time to make happen that could and should be spent elsewhere. This sounds more like something fit for a different coh server entirely.

I'm not particular concerned with dev time or implementation difficulty. My aim is exploring difficulty as more than just a "setting" to turn off and on but rather a line of content that is somewhat unique.

 

I've dabbled in the various mission settings and flashback but it feels more like a level cap shift rather than actual added difficulty.