Wanting to tank Hami with a Regen Brute - need build

[Childzplay]

Looking to  do Hami Raids on a Regen Brute .. need a good build.  Anyone have one? 

[Keen]

I don't have a build atm (I moved on to a Dark/Dark Tanker Hami taunting build) but here are some of the important things you need for Hami taunting:

 

- toxic resists - green damage is toxic (not Special) and can kill you through EoEs - you can cap this by stacking Reconstruction a few times and slotting res IOs in it

- some slow resistance - you can't heal properly if your recharge is debuffed into oblivion - blue mitos and Hami will debuff your recharge

- end drain resist - blue mitos and Hami will drain your endurance - you can't do anything about this other than going Ageless Destiny

- KB protection - need at least 16KB protection outside of Integration - that prevents you from getting into an endless KB lockdown when you're stunned - you will eventually get stunned through Integration if the league is not taunting yellows well

 

Building towards having more Regen is not recommended. Regeneration is useless as Hami and the greens will keep it floored for the whole raid unless you have outside buffs.

[Menelruin]

21 hours ago, Keen said:

I don't have a build atm (I moved on to a Dark/Dark Tanker Hami taunting build) but here are some of the important things you need for Hami taunting:

 

- toxic resists - green damage is toxic (not Special) and can kill you through EoEs - you can cap this by stacking Reconstruction a few times and slotting res IOs in it

- some slow resistance - you can't heal properly if your recharge is debuffed into oblivion - blue mitos and Hami will debuff your recharge

- end drain resist - blue mitos and Hami will drain your endurance - you can't do anything about this other than going Ageless Destiny

- KB protection - need at least 16KB protection outside of Integration - that prevents you from getting into an endless KB lockdown when you're stunned - you will eventually get stunned through Integration if the league is not taunting yellows well

 

Building towards having more Regen is not recommended. Regeneration is useless as Hami and the greens will keep it floored for the whole raid unless you have outside buffs.

So what all forms of healing are NOT debuffed by Hami?  I've heard some self-heals, including the one from Dark Melee.....

Edited February 23, 2020 by Menelruin

[Keen]

On 2/22/2020 at 11:10 PM, Menelruin said:

So what all forms of healing are NOT rebuffed by Hami?  I've heard some self-heals, including the one from Dark Melee.....

Most self heals that come from melee/armor powersets are unresistable, meaning they're not debuffed by Hami/green blasts. Reconstruction, Dull Pain (from all sets) etc, are included in this list. Off-target heals such as Siphon Life, DNA Siphon, and Dark Regeneration are unresistable as well, but those have a chance to miss. Some powers, such as Hoarfrost, have unresistable Max HP bonuses but resistable heals, meaning they won't heal while debuffed.

 

Medicine Pool / Aid Self is resistable and will not work. They're interruptible and have a very long activation time anyway so they aren't useful for Hami taunting.

 

Ally Heals are affected by Hami debuffs, so they will heal the Hami taunter for zero HP. This includes all powers such as Heal Other, Healing Aura, O2 Boost, etc.

 

Heal procs (such as Panacea) are resistable and will also heal for zero. This also includes Bio Armor benefits from Adaptation Modes.

 

And finally, Rebirth Destiny heals are resistable... they will also heal for ZERO while debuffed. 🤬

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Keen

[Menelruin]

Thank you for the breakdown!

[Menelruin]

Hmm, so should a brute optimized for Hami tanking basically skip Instant Healing?  Also, where do I look in a power description to see if a self heal is resistable?  Is it visible in Mids or Pines?

Edited February 24, 2020 by Menelruin

[Keen]

7 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Hmm, so should a brute optimized for Hami tanking basically skip Instant Healing?  Also, where do I look in a power description to see if a self heal is resistable?  Is it visible in Mids or Pines?

You don't need to skip Instant Healing, but you won't be using it as often as you'd think. It's only effective if you have external buffs on you, or if you manage to taunt Hami from range and avoid most of the green attacks.

 

Both Mids and ingame power info show "unresistable" next to heals in their detailed info. For Mids you go to the detailed tab for the power and hover over the healing amount, and a tooltip should tell you additional flags.

[Childzplay]

Wow , I had no idea..  I had asked the Hami leaders.. that was what was suggested to me.  I will look at other tank builds  

 

[Keen]

Regen is still good if you have a team to support you, the major issue would be recovery but you'll do fine otherwise.

 

If you're looking into a more self-capable build, I suggest Dark Armor or Bio Armor. I tested both of those and they're fully able to tank Hami without any outside help. Stone Armor apparently has some potential too and I may test it out soon.

[Menelruin]

Hey, another thought just occurred to me:  You know how some sets have procs that heal you?  Does Hami debuff THAT healing, too?

[Keen]

18 hours ago, Menelruin said:

Hey, another thought just occurred to me:  You know how some sets have procs that heal you?  Does Hami debuff THAT healing, too?

Yes. Panacea proc for instance will heal 0 points. +End procs aren't affected.

 

I also tested Stone Armor today and Earth's Embrace heal is resistable, so it heals for zero. A shame really, otherwise it'd surpass Bio Armor in efficiency. Stone Armor is still a good powerset in a league setting, if you can handle the self slow and -recharge.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Keen

[Menelruin]

@Sura this is the other thread I mentioned.

[Sura]

44 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

@Sura this is the other thread I mentioned.

Thanks!  Excellent information here!

[Menelruin]

Does anyone have suggestions about sets for easily raising toxic resist, then?  My mids-fu is weak, but I've noticed it seems like toxic/psi resist are generally only an effect on sets when you have all 6 pieces....

[Doomguide2005]

Dead computer is going to drive me crazy but iirc you can use Mids' to search for sets with specific set bonuses.

[Keen]

Off the top of my head:

• most purple sets; only a few do not offer toxic resist at 6-slotting
• Perfect Zinger (taunt) 2-set can be slotted in many places, additionally 4-set gives recharge which is great
• Doctored Wounds (heal) 6-set, but there are better options for heal sets here
• Shield Wall (def) +Res Unique for 5% toxic resist
• Reactive Defenses (def) +Res Unique for 3% toxic resist + scaling to 10% as health goes down

If you're Regeneration, you don't need to worry too much about toxic resists coming from sets. It's just easier to slot Reconstruction with Resistance IOs (3 at most so you can leave the other 3 to improve its healing), so one or two uses will cap it. Toxic resistance from Reconstruction lasts 1 minute and it's quite easy to stack.

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Keen

[Menelruin]

So while that massive file of builds didn't have a dm/regen BRUTE, it did have several SCRAPPERS....so I just scoured for the one that looked like it made the best use of both Reconstruction and Siphon Life, then made some minor adjustments for Brute instead.  Sadly I don't think there's an Epic pool for Brutes that has a Defense power, and there's limited power pools, so instead of getting both Leadership (Manuvers) and Soul Mastery (Shadow Meld), I just went with Concealment, so I could pick up 2 more spots for LotG, via both Stealth and Invisibility.  Sure their stats are weaker, but at least it gives me 2 mules in a single pool, without having to get an extra power like Flight would have.  Can you guys please let me know what you think?

 

EDIT:  In particular, I'm thinking of taking some slots from Instant Healing and putting them in Reconstruction.....

 

 

Brute - Dark Melee - Regeneration.mxd

Edited March 15, 2020 by Menelruin

[Keen]

The build overall is good but it has two big weaknesses for Hami tanking:

• low toxic resists (and Reconstruction without Resistance slotting, making it very hard to cap), green beams may kill you through EoEs,
• slow resistance not close to cap (just 70% with 100% uptime, considering you keep Ageless up); you need a very strong slow resist wtih 100% uptime because the slow effect inflicted by Hami and blue blasts is very large and stacks easily. Try to aim for 90% slow resists at least.

If you manage to close those two gaps, you'll have a better time tanking Hami.

[Menelruin]

9 hours ago, Keen said:

The build overall is good but it has two big weaknesses for Hami tanking:

• low toxic resists (and Reconstruction without Resistance slotting, making it very hard to cap), green beams may kill you through EoEs,
• slow resistance not close to cap (just 70% with 100% uptime, considering you keep Ageless up); you need a very strong slow resist wtih 100% uptime because the slow effect inflicted by Hami and blue blasts is very large and stacks easily. Try to aim for 90% slow resists at least.

If you manage to close those two gaps, you'll have a better time tanking Hami.

Any suggestions on fixing those?  I did a quick scan of Paragon WIki, and most of the Slow Resist sets I see are PVP only.....

 

Also, I think Toxic Resist tends to only come from 6-slotting sets, doesn't it?

 

EDIT:  Ah, I see Winter's Gift.  Maybe I should give up the Concealment pool and lose a LotG, to pick up Fly, so I can use Winter's Gift?  I assume I should hold on to Blessing of the Zephyr in Super Speed....

 

DOUBLE EDIT:  ARGH, but I need 16 KB protection total from Hami, don't I?  I'm only up to 14......

Edited March 15, 2020 by Menelruin

[Keen]

To address toxic resistance, the first thing to do would be slotting Reconstruction with resistance IOs. Try to cap the resists in there: usually two +5 resistance IOs will do it. Then before launching, use it a few times to bring your toxic resists up, then launch into Hami, then keep using it whenever it's up, alongside Taunt.

 

The more toxic resists you have outside Reconstruction, the less times you need to stack it. Right now, your build has a lot of defense and resistance that may help you in general content (and monster hunting), but not on Hami tanking. How far you are willing to sacrifice that is up to you. For instance, the following IOs and enhancements are not helping you against Hami:

• Brute's Fury: 5-slotting is enough (for recharge)
• Unrelenting Fury: none of the bonuses in this set help against Hami, you can forego this completely. The 6-set does not give Toxic/Psi resists
• Nucleous Exposure in Siphon Life: you don't need damage here; Accuracy can also be skipped if you have enough from IO sets
• Numina's Convalescence: can replace them with 5-slot Panacea for recharge
• Doctored Wounds 4-slot is not useful, you can replace it with Preventive Medicine (3-slot at most for Max HP)
• Avalanche: 2-slot is enough, nothing else helps here
• Blistering Cold: same as Avalanche
• Glimpse of the Abyss: Touch of Fear is usually skipped. No good fear IO sets against Hami. You can drop Touch of Fear then drop the whole Concealment pool, and get Leadership instead (Maneuvers for LotG, Tactics for Terrorize resists, Vengeance for LotG)
• Luck of the Gambler: anything beyond the Recharge proc is wasted. The 3-slot offers Max HP but there are better uses for slots in a Hami build.

Once you free up some space from removing some of the above sets, you can then go after some Toxic resist sources in IOs. I've talked about them in a previous post:

On 3/10/2020 at 11:31 AM, Keen said:

• most purple sets; only a few do not offer toxic resist at 6-slotting
• Perfect Zinger (taunt) 2-set can be slotted in many places, additionally 4-set gives recharge which is great
• Doctored Wounds (heal) 6-set, but there are better options for heal sets here
• Shield Wall (def) +Res Unique for 5% toxic resist (you already have it)
• Reactive Defenses (def) +Res Unique for 3% toxic resist + scaling to 10% as health goes down

 

As for Knockback, when in a league setting, you could rely on Integration alone, because the chances that you'll get stunned will be lower (before launch, someone will cast Clarion, for instance). You can remove the KB IO from your travel power and add the Winter's Gift Slow resist there to close the slow gap. Just be aware that if you ever get stunned, you may get locked into a long KB chain. Having slow resistance helps you recover as you move back into meleeing Hami (for Siphon Life). If you get into a KB chain and have NO slow resists, you're stuck whenever you land and won't be able to use Siphon Life anymore. Builds without slow resists cannot move at all, and if the KB chain is strong enough, the taunter can get knocked back all the way out of the goo.

 

[Menelruin]

1 hour ago, Keen said:

To address toxic resistance, the first thing to do would be slotting Reconstruction with resistance IOs. Try to cap the resists in there: usually two +5 resistance IOs will do it. Then before launching, use it a few times to bring your toxic resists up, then launch into Hami, then keep using it whenever it's up, alongside Taunt.

 

The more toxic resists you have outside Reconstruction, the less times you need to stack it. Right now, your build has a lot of defense and resistance that may help you in general content (and monster hunting), but not on Hami tanking. How far you are willing to sacrifice that is up to you. For instance, the following IOs and enhancements are not helping you against Hami:

• Brute's Fury: 5-slotting is enough (for recharge)
• Unrelenting Fury: none of the bonuses in this set help against Hami, you can forego this completely. The 6-set does not give Toxic/Psi resists
• Nucleous Exposure in Siphon Life: you don't need damage here; Accuracy can also be skipped if you have enough from IO sets
• Numina's Convalescence: can replace them with 5-slot Panacea for recharge
• Doctored Wounds 4-slot is not useful, you can replace it with Preventive Medicine (3-slot at most for Max HP)
• Avalanche: 2-slot is enough, nothing else helps here
• Blistering Cold: same as Avalanche
• Glimpse of the Abyss: Touch of Fear is usually skipped. No good fear IO sets against Hami. You can drop Touch of Fear then drop the whole Concealment pool, and get Leadership instead (Maneuvers for LotG, Tactics for Terrorize resists, Vengeance for LotG)
• Luck of the Gambler: anything beyond the Recharge proc is wasted. The 3-slot offers Max HP but there are better uses for slots in a Hami build.

Once you free up some space from removing some of the above sets, you can then go after some Toxic resist sources in IOs. I've talked about them in a previous post:

 

As for Knockback, when in a league setting, you could rely on Integration alone, because the chances that you'll get stunned will be lower (before launch, someone will cast Clarion, for instance). You can remove the KB IO from your travel power and add the Winter's Gift Slow resist there to close the slow gap. Just be aware that if you ever get stunned, you may get locked into a long KB chain. Having slow resistance helps you recover as you move back into meleeing Hami (for Siphon Life). If you get into a KB chain and have NO slow resists, you're stuck whenever you land and won't be able to use Siphon Life anymore. Builds without slow resists cannot move at all, and if the KB chain is strong enough, the taunter can get knocked back all the way out of the goo.

 

In terms of how far I'm willing to specialize:  100%, all the way.  I'm working on a toon for the sole, hyperspecialized purpose of maybe tanking Hami WITHOUT needing support.  The problem with slotting Reconstruction for Resist is that for the non-Toxic attacks, my only "defense" is to heal as fast as I can specifically with Reconstruction and Siphon Life; those two powers are the only real protection against everything other than the Greens.  That's why I just scanned for a build that had lots of healing potential in those two powers, then piled on as much Haste as possible to try and heal faster than Hami could damage me.  That was my IDEA, anyway....I'm not good at making builds.....

 

EDIT:  Also, I'm thinking I should ironically mostly skip the various healing procs, as they won't help against Hami.

 

DOUBLE EDIT:  What's probably a good benchmark to aim for in Toxic Resist?

Edited March 15, 2020 by Menelruin

[Keen]

In my experience in a league setting, Reconstruction + Dull Pain will keep you alive without EoEs if you're not being hit by yellows (provided you have high toxic resistance). I used to tank Hami without toxic resists for a very long time (before I knew about greens dealing toxic damage) and it was extremely difficult: if I mistimed a heal (say, used Reconstruction at full HP), I'd be dead before Reconstruction would be up again (and if I didn't use an EoE). That's also considering Dull Pain as a reactive heal. But if one or more yellows are also hitting you, there's no way to survive other than using an EoE. The burst of untyped damage is just too much for any heals or capped regeneration to handle. Blue mitos also deal untyped damage, and albeit lower compared to yellows, it's significant when they're added up. (Yellows deal around 400 damage + DoT, Blues deal around 100 damage IIRC.)

 

EoEs should be part of your gameplan: don't ever consider not relying on them. You absolutely need them in at least three phases: initial launch, blooms (either one or many), and kill phase (if powering through blooms). Those three stages are when yellows/blues can hit you, and nothing you do whatsoever outside of using EoEs can keep you alive against the burst damage. Once the league has launched and your first EoE expires, you can then handle your heals to save some EoEs until the first bloom comes.

 

As for healing procs: Panacea offers +Endurance so don't skip it. Miracle and Numina procs are also good (for Recovery), and Performance Shifter Proc also helps. Panacea offers healing and Numina offers regen but both of those are useless, you're using them for their +Endurance/Recovery benefit mostly.

 

I haven't done Dark/Regeneration before. My previous build was Katana/Regen, and once I got toxic resistance, Hami tanking life became a LOT easier. I can only imagine Siphon Life is going to be overkill in terms of survivability, but it may help immensely saving some EoEs at the times you don't need them. As I mentioned before, the biggest weakness for a Regen Brute is endurance/recovery. You're addressing that with Ageless, but anything else you can do on that front helps, like using the Theft of Essence +Endurance proc in Siphon Life. Depending on your IO choices, you don't need to slot Accuracy in Siphon Life at all to have a 95% chance to hit Hamidon.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Keen

[Menelruin]

2 minutes ago, Keen said:

In my experience in a league setting, Reconstruction alone will keep you alive without EoEs if you're not being hit by yellows (provided you have high toxic resistance). I used to tank Hami without toxic resists for a very long time (before I knew about greens dealing toxic damage) and it was extremely difficult: if I mistimed a heal (say, used Reconstruction at full HP), I'd be dead before Reconstruction would be up again (and if I didn't use an EoE). That's also considering Dull Pain as a reactive heal. But if one or more yellows are also hitting you, there's no way to survive other than using an EoE. The burst of untyped damage is just too much for any heals or capped regeneration to handle. Blue mitos also deal untyped damage, and albeit lower compared to yellows, it's significant when they're added up. (Yellows deal around 400 damage + DoT, Blues deal around 100 damage IIRC.)

 

EoEs should be part of your gameplan: don't ever consider not relying on them. You absolutely need them in at least three phases: initial launch, blooms (either one or many), and kill phase (if powering through blooms). Those three stages are when yellows/blues can hit you, and nothing you do whatsoever outside of using EoEs can keep you alive against the burst damage. Once the league has launched and your first EoE expires, you can then handle your heals to save some EoEs until the first bloom comes.

 

As for healing procs: Panacea offers +Endurance so don't skip it. Miracle and Numina procs are also good (for Recovery), and Performance Shifter Proc also helps. Panacea offers healing and Numina offers regen but both of those are useless, you're using them for their +Endurance/Recovery benefit mostly.

 

I haven't done Dark/Regeneration before. My previous build was Katana/Regen, and once I got toxic resistance, Hami tanking life became a LOT easier. I can only imagine Siphon Life is going to be overkill in terms of survivability, but it may help immensely saving some EoEs at the times you don't need them. As I mentioned before, the biggest weakness for a Regen Brute is endurance/recovery. You're addressing that with Ageless, but anything else you can do on that front helps, like using the Theft of Essence +Endurance proc in Siphon Life. Depending on your IO choices, you don't need to slot Accuracy in Siphon Life at all to have a 95% chance to hit Hamidon.

On Torchbearer, we tend to have a full league go at Hami every night, and one of the 6 teams is comprised of a Tanker with a slew of Defenders/support.  We always kill a bunch of mobs for EoEs first, and I also keep a bunch emailed to myself for an emergency stash, so I'm set for those.  My goal is to make an idealized Hami tank (with EoEs in use), so that all other leaguemates are free to focus on DPS.  This'll also help if my SG wants to try to do our own Hami runs, as we may not be able to count on a full League for that.

[Keen]

52 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

On Torchbearer, we tend to have a full league go at Hami every night, and one of the 6 teams is comprised of a Tanker with a slew of Defenders/support.  We always kill a bunch of mobs for EoEs first, and I also keep a bunch emailed to myself for an emergency stash, so I'm set for those.  My goal is to make an idealized Hami tank (with EoEs in use), so that all other leaguemates are free to focus on DPS.  This'll also help if my SG wants to try to do our own Hami runs, as we may not be able to count on a full League for that.

 

That's what myself and the other Hamidon taunters on Everlasting do. The taunter team only has the Hamidon and yellow taunters (who are also self-sufficient). Support ATs can then focus on blues/greens (some on yellows too) to finish the raid faster.

 

For a less-than-full-league setting I can see how going full Hami mode will benefit the raid. In such cases, you will definitely want to address KB protection. From my first post here:

 

On 2/22/2020 at 12:05 PM, Keen said:

- KB protection - need at least 16KB protection outside of Integration - that prevents you from getting into an endless KB lockdown when you're stunned - you will eventually get stunned through Integration if the league is not taunting yellows well

 

Again, KB protection outside of Integration. In other words, you need at least an additional 16 KB protection from IOs alone. Why?

 

Integration is your mez protection toggle. As with most toggle powers, if you ever get stunned, all your mez protection from toggles gets suppressed. That includes KB protection and resistance. You'll lose it all while you're stunned and that can lead to long KB chains that may be difficult to recover from.

 

KB protection from IOs does not get suppressed, and allows you to stay in place while stunned. This is specially important when you need to melee Hami for Siphon Life. Each yellow blast will deal around 15 knockback. Hamidon blasts also cause KB. There might be times that you get KB'd even with 16 KB protection from IOs, as blasts may stack their effects up, but it tends to be rare.

 

When you're not stunned and Integration is running, you get "1000% KB resistance" (sic). It means that yellow and Hami blasts will deal very low KB magnitude. So not being stunned is helpful, and Regeneration->Resilience helps with that.

 

Even in a full league setting you may get stunned through Integration if the league doesn't protect you. As the Hami taunter you gotta launch first. For a brief moment, you'll have Hamidon + 18 mitos hitting you until the league moves in. Moment of Glory is your power of choice here, as it adds additional mez protection and recovery for 15 seconds. It's enough time for the league to move in and most mito damage to be redirected away from you. Melee Hybrid also helps with additional mez protection (with 50% uptime), and Control Hybrid has a 100% uptime effect of reducing stun time on you.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Keen

[Menelruin]

And for added fun, I just noticed something wrong with both my version of mids, AND the game.....it's showing Shadow Maul as accepting PBAoE sets in both descriptions, but it won't actually accept them....on the bright side, Ragnarok is looking good!

 

EDIT: NVM, was too low level.....but that still doesn't seem to make sense to me....

Edited March 15, 2020 by Menelruin