Mind/Poison Questions...

[roleki]

So I've rolled up a Mind/Poison and so far I am digging it, but...

 

Looking around the forums, I see lots of people lauding Poison Trap as a proc mule, so I six-slotted mine with 5 procs.  I rarely see even one of them fire off, let alone multiples.  Do the procs fire off again in the lingering mist, and I am just not letting things stay alive long enough to see it?

 

Also, I had put the Call of the Sandman Heal proc in Mass Hypnosis, but it also rarely fires (or should I say, I hit a mob and yes, I heal 50 points of damage, but was expecting multiples).  Do healing procs not work the same as damage procs?  

[EmperorSteele]

For the healing, think of it like the force feedback proc: hitting lots of enemies doesn't give you multiple buffs, just multiple chances for the one buff to go off.

 

As for Poison Trap, you didn't slot it for recharge or select an Alpha with recharge, did you? Because that's really the only thing I can think of which would make procs not want to go off.

[roleki]

@EmperorSteele Ugh, if that's how the Healing proc works, that's awful.  When it hits, I get 50HP back, or a little bit better than 2s of regen.  Boo!

 

As for Poison Trap, I'm not anywhere I can check for exactness, but the one non/proc was either Damage/Endurance or just Damage out of the purple PBAoE set, then 4 damage procs and a -Res I think. No alpha yet, I'm still working through to unlock it, was thinking of going for Musculature or Cardiac specifically because I have so many oddball procs in the build (FF+Rech, Achilles, etc).

 

I'm not expecting Seismic Smash numbers out of Poison Trap, but I should expect more than ~40 damage right?

 

 

 

 

[Frosticus]

This is how it works for me.

 

The initial pulse is quite good. The cloud then continues to proc every 10 seconds with lower probability. 

[roleki]

I did some more testing last night and saw a few more hits, but nothing like @Frosticushas there.  I'll stick with it in hopes the RNG gods smile on me again someday.

 

Meanwhile, aside from my PT proc issue, I am floored by how effective the /Poison secondary is in melee.  The combination of -ToHit and -Res is sneaky good; I can't wait to roll a Fire/Poison and see how that melts things.

[Frosticus]

well if you are seeing "40 damage" that sounds like +3 or 4s. 

you need to make the power hit things for it to work. 

 

you have  no acc  slotted, no alpha that gives acc, and I'm guessing you dont have huge amounts of global acc bonuses.

I dont think it inherents the tactics buff (if you have it) but it may if it detonates immediately (2 sec activate period on tactics).

 

venomous gas helps but the debuff is cut drastically against +lvl enemies. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Frosticus

[roleki]

That may be my problem there: I have a pretty high stack of global accuracy (47%), but no global ToHit.  

 

To that point, I just read that the Kismet buff is +6 global ToHot, not accuracy... is that correct?

[Frosticus]

kismet is tohit. Probably transfers to PT

vs +3 you have base tohit of 48% and your debuffs are 65% as effective

vs +4 you have base tohit of 39% and your debuffs are 48% as effective

 

Id guess your venomous gas is base -def, so -10%

 

vs +3 your PT has (48+6+6.5)*1.47 = 89% chance to hit them

vs +4 your PT has (39+6+4.8)*1.47 = 73% chance to hit them

 

PT has a 20ft radius, Venomous gas has a 15ft, so not everyone will be affected by VG thus further lowering your final tohit chance against them.

 

I went nerve on my plant/poison proc build because it helps PT (and creepers)

Also I wouldn't slot damage into PT myself. I'd (and do) 6 proc it. 3 of which are purple damage procs. If you can't get enough acc then 5 proc with an Acc.

 

 

[roleki]

@Frosticus That all makes sense; I wound up dropping the Damage/Endurance for a 6th proc, 5 that do damage and one -Res.  Naturally, with an additional proc I am seeing more hits, as well as more frequent '2nd pulse' hits.

 

I think I will test swapping out one or both procs from Ghost Widow/Neuronic because I notice those are only ever firing off on 'alpha' and never get secondary pulses.  I'm wondering if the power only rolls 'hold' at cast.

 

[Frosticus]

I wish you luck. I tested it extensively on my plant/poison in saturated farms and eventually just conceded that I don't know enough about the power to explain its behavior beyond stating that it is quite good. 

 

In that environment PT fired the troller ATO damage proc at just a slight less rate than creepers did. I'd have to dig around for the post I made on it.

At any rate, i keep it in PT because I control when and where vs creepers. 

 

The -res proc may be over questionable value to you as a mind controller though. Just depends how much aoe you pump out shortly after PT or if you are teaming I suppose. For my plant/poison it was a good choice because it boosts my roots spam and creepers.

 

 

[roleki]

I had done some testing with the Controller ATO procs and found those weren't firing as often as the PBAoE procs, either, but without any of the data on what PT actually DOES I don't know if that's just RNG being *that* random or if the 'hold' only fires once.  

 

As far as -Res procs go, they have been very effective for me in other builds so I tend to throw them into my first draft of any character. 

 

As you suggest, it may be of lower utility in THIS build because it already has so much -Res and not a lot of heat out of the primary, but, I am hitting orange-con bosses for 1200+ off Seismic Smash with this dude, which is never not hilarious to me.

[Xip2]

@Frosticus I'm currently lvl'ing a plant/poison troller. Any chance you'd want to share your build? Im very new with poison. Thanks 🙂

[Clave Dark 5]

I built one based on the suggestions given in my thread, found here:

It's not the strongest pairing, I feel; having to add in a couple of epic or ancillary power pools (Stone Mastery, here) to really complete a build rather than add a few frills sort of feels like cheating to me, plus it meas something of a slog leveling.  That said, I have had fun with my toon (she's something of a "main" for me right now) and I hope you do too! 

 

I mainly use my toon for Rikti MSR now and based on that and previous experience, the Poison Trap does hold a bunch of procs, but you can never bet on all of them firing, so they often don't add up to a lot.  Again, this build didn't feel so strong without a couple of "real" attacks thrown in from Stone Mastery, and even then it doesn't like PWN the whole map in seconds or whatever.  Decent enough team player, helpful with AVs or something I guess, there are debuffs, but not like a strong duoing or soloing build.  I almost never fire off Mass Hyp with that heal proc in it, there's usually other, better things to do.  Following this build above, there's not much else slotted in it, so it often doesn't do a heck of a lot for me.  It's best applied in groups as big as you can swing and want another button to mash, but isn't something to like live and die by or to depend upon to save your life.

 

If you have any other questions, please post and I'll do my best to answer them.

[roleki]

This is how I wound up doing Mind/Poison.  I kind of split the difference between making it a "proc monster" and slotting it for effect, and the result is easily one of my favorite controllers.  As a pet-less, buff-less controller, it keeps pace in DPS with everything short of a /Kin controller (thanks in no small part to all the -Res) and it survives having low defense and no heal thanks to all the -ToHit and soft controls.  It's not a map-sweeping juggernaut, but it will sweep a map in less peril and with more style than pretty much any other controller I have, and, I have a lot of them.  

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Dr. Jonas: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Hold%(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Absorb%(23)
Level 2: Dominate -- GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(A), GhsWdwEmb-EndRdx/Hold(9), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/Hold/Rchg(19), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(21), Lck-%Hold(21), Dvs-Hold%(23)
Level 4: Envenom -- ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(9), AchHee-ResDeb%(13)
Level 6: Weaken -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(7), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), CldSns-ToHitDeb(46)
Level 8: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(11)
Level 12: Confuse -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(13), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(31), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(31), CrcPrs-Conf%(34)
Level 14: Mass Hypnosis -- FrtHyp-Sleep(A), FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(15), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(15), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(17), FrtHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(17), FrtHyp-Plct%(19)
Level 16: Neurotoxic Breath -- PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(A)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Total Domination -- UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(25), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(37), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(39), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- GhsWdwEmb-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(29), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(29), Lck-%Hold(31)
Level 30: Terrify -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(43), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(50), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(48), GlmoftheA-Dam%(48)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- MlsIll-Acc/Rchg(A), MlsIll-EndRdx/Conf(33), MlsIll-Acc/EndRdx(33), MlsIll-Conf/Rng(33), MlsIll-Acc/Conf/Rchg(34), MlsIll-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dam%(36), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(36), Erd-%Dam(40), NrnSht-Dam%(42), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(43)
Level 38: Venomous Gas -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(39), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Fissure -- FrcFdb-Acc/KB(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(42)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Dam%(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(45), NrnSht-Dam%(46), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Levitate -- FrcFdb-Acc/KB(A), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(3), Pnc-Heal/+End(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(3), PrfShf-End%(5)
Level 50: Cardiac Total Radial Revamp 
Level 50: Ion Total Core Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Total Core Conversion 
Level 50: Clarion Partial Core Invocation 
Level 50: Rikti Ally 
Level 50: Control Total Core Graft 
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