It's time to recognize Domination is bad.

[Golden Azrael]

Sure.  There's something sadomasochism about it...nobody likes being dragged around the Hollows by your cape through the back of some trash cans in those Outcast alley ways, crying, 'please...not the face...'

 

...until you hit L32 and it's...., 'Ah...respite from the hammer.'   'Remember me?  I was the hero that you dragged by the cape through the...etc. etc.'

 

Then the heavenly choir of angels illuminate your struggle.

 

Pain.  Pleasure.

 

Azrael.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[tidge]

9 hours ago, kenlon said:

A man comes upon another man who is repeatedly hitting his thumb with a hammer.  When asked why he’s beating his thumb to a pulp, the man with the hammer replies, “Because it feels so good when I stop!” 

Is the thumb in this analogy the forums, and is the hammer threads like this one?

[Indystruck]

There's also just sets that benefit less from Domination, like Elec Control is psuedopet heavy, and Earth Control's mostly just immobilizes and patch psuedopets, leaving you with Staglamites, Fossilize, and Salt Crystals. 

[Naraka]

7 hours ago, tidge said:

Is the thumb in this analogy the forums, and is the hammer threads like this one?

I'd assume the thumb is the non-perma dominator and the hammer is the circumstances that make non-perma dominator seem like "utter trash" as some would describe it.

 

But then I'd wager those that describe the AT as such are merely exaggerating to make a scene.  While perma-dom is amazing and even better with some sets, it's not really the end-all shift some make it out to be.  If anything, it's the high +rech required to get to perma-dom that makes the dominator amazing, not having domination on all the time.  Makes me wonder if the best solution would be to just give the Dominator a 20%-75% recharge bonus depending on level and domination level that is suppressed while under the effects of Domination.  It wouldn't benefit anyone but the "utter trash" anyway while also filling the gap for those near perma that desire it while those that choose a more staggered use of the button get better control opportunities but less potency while not using it but slightly suffer from less control opportunities but higher potency while under the effects of domination.

[SaddestGhost]

16 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I'd assume the thumb is the non-perma dominator and the hammer is the circumstances that make non-perma dominator seem like "utter trash" as some would describe it.

 

But then I'd wager those that describe the AT as such are merely exaggerating to make a scene.  While perma-dom is amazing and even better with some sets, it's not really the end-all shift some make it out to be.  If anything, it's the high +rech required to get to perma-dom that makes the dominator amazing, not having domination on all the time.  Makes me wonder if the best solution would be to just give the Dominator a 20%-75% recharge bonus depending on level and domination level that is suppressed while under the effects of Domination.  It wouldn't benefit anyone but the "utter trash" anyway while also filling the gap for those near perma that desire it while those that choose a more staggered use of the button get better control opportunities but less potency while not using it but slightly suffer from less control opportunities but higher potency while under the effects of domination.

The high recharge is nice on the control side of Dominators; it's also why many controllers chase it as well. However, when you begin to hit heavy diminishing returns on recharge in individual powers, the reason to keep pushing forward is perma-dom.  For instance, I've been working on a Grav/energy build.  If I drop all of the LotGs out of it, I can lose 37.5% global recharge.  That makes a 3 second difference in how often I can cast Wormhole, but it drops me out of perma-dom by 10 seconds plus the time it takes to rebuild the domination bar.  Additionally, Assault secondaries don't have many long recharge powers that benefit that much recharge.  Shorter recharges just simply hit diminishing returns on recharge faster.  It's quite possible to build a solid attack chain without the levels needed for perma-dom.  So, it's a nice side effect, but only to a point. 

 

There's a reason people span that gap despite the diminishing returns.  If you look at the popularity of Mind Control on Doms vs. controllers, I think it points at how valuable that extra magnitude is to control powers.  Uncontrolled bosses kill squishies without other defensive options available to them.

[Naraka]

7 minutes ago, SaddestGhost said:

The high recharge is nice on the control side of Dominators; it's also why many controllers chase it as well. However, when you begin to hit heavy diminishing returns on recharge in individual powers, the reason to keep pushing forward is perma-dom.  For instance, I've been working on a Grav/energy build.  If I drop all of the LotGs out of it, I can lose 37.5% global recharge.  That makes a 3 second difference in how often I can cast Wormhole, but it drops me out of perma-dom by 10 seconds plus the time it takes to rebuild the domination bar.  Additionally, Assault secondaries don't have many long recharge powers that benefit that much recharge.  Shorter recharges just simply hit diminishing returns on recharge faster.  It's quite possible to build a solid attack chain without the levels needed for perma-dom.  So, it's a nice side effect, but only to a point. 

 

There's a reason people span that gap despite the diminishing returns.  If you look at the popularity of Mind Control on Doms vs. controllers, I think it points at how valuable that extra magnitude is to control powers.  Uncontrolled bosses kill squishies without other defensive options available to them.

Regarding the assault side, the global recharge can be an added boon to proc builds so that you get the benefit of higher proc chance and faster recharging assault powers, so it has its benefits on assault side too.  As for the double mag, it's more icing than it is cake as some sets get less benefit from from it but the high rech will still bring up those powers faster.  I know, on my Grav/Energy dom, I don't really care about double mag stun on my Wormhole.  The important part is the teleport and the knockdown.  Everything is going to be dead before the stun matters most of the time and the set has so much KD and stun, doubling the mag really only matters if you're soloing to which then domination *IS* available if you actually need it because Singularity isn't doing its job.

[Galaxy Brain]

What if Domination meter gave +Rech per pt?

[SaddestGhost]

3 hours ago, Naraka said:

Regarding the assault side, the global recharge can be an added boon to proc builds so that you get the benefit of higher proc chance and faster recharging assault powers, so it has its benefits on assault side too.  As for the double mag, it's more icing than it is cake as some sets get less benefit from from it but the high rech will still bring up those powers faster.  I know, on my Grav/Energy dom, I don't really care about double mag stun on my Wormhole.  The important part is the teleport and the knockdown.  Everything is going to be dead before the stun matters most of the time and the set has so much KD and stun, doubling the mag really only matters if you're soloing to which then domination *IS* available if you actually need it because Singularity isn't doing its job.

My experience just doesn't match up with this even on teams.  Minions and Lieutenants are wiped out in the volley of initial AoE.  Where control matters is on the bosses that remaining standing.  While some sets do benefit less, we see them all near the bottom in numbers for Doms.  From the bottom up: Ice, Grav, Electric, Earth. Earth remains near the middle of the pack because its provides extensive control; both Earthquake and Volcanic Gasses can deal with bosses fairly effectively.  Grav is a notable exception there but the explanation for its change in position is fairly simple; it trades early control for additional damage which benefits doms very little.

[kenlon]

18 hours ago, SaddestGhost said:

However, when you begin to hit heavy diminishing returns on recharge in individual powers, the reason to keep pushing forward is perma-dom.  For instance, I've been working on a Grav/energy build.  If I drop all of the LotGs out of it, I can lose 37.5% global recharge.  That makes a 3 second difference in how often I can cast Wormhole, but it drops me out of perma-dom by 10 seconds plus the time it takes to rebuild the domination bar. 

 

This is the core of the problem with how non-perma Domination works as opposed to perma. If you have 123% recharge, you build your bar once and stay there forever. If you have 122% you have to rebuild the bar every time, despite having almost the same investment in global recharge as the perma build. 

This is not complicated, and the fact that people are defending the discontinuity as being somehow good baffles me.

 

15 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

What if Domination meter gave +Rech per pt?

Doesn't address the actual problem, though. Unless building the meter gave you enough to hit perma, in which case it's pointless. 

[Replacement]

1 hour ago, kenlon said:

This is not complicated, and the fact that people are defending the discontinuity as being somehow good baffles me.

 

On 4/17/2020 at 11:10 AM, Replacement said:

I'm imagining if Scrapper Critical Hit chance suddenly doubled but only when you're at the Defense soft-cap.  How you would /jranger its implementation right now, but if it existed, would be so opposed to its removal.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Replacement