Hold sets with damage

[Greycat]

So as I was browsing through Hold IO sets, I noticed something -

 

None of them have a damage component. Some have procs, sure, for extra mag and such, but there are no hold sets with (say) Acc/Dmg/Hold or Dmg/Hold in them.

 

Now, yes, holds typically have some secondary set type they accept - typically ranged or melee damage. And yes, *typically* Holds don't do a lot of damage (though one of a Warshade's highest damage melee attacks is a hold, and several other melee "slams" have a Hold component to them.) However, you're then either frankenslotting and not getting some nice higher end set bonuses or you're not enhancing the hold itself as a hold.

 

Currently, the only way of getting damage and mez in the same slot is through Titan/Hami-os. Also checking in Immobilizes, they have the same issue - no sets that will do an immob/damage.

 

So, I'd like to suggest two sets with each combination - one that leans more towards damage with a little hold (or mez,) one that does more mez (with a bit of damage enhancement.) Given these are mostly focused on controllers and doms, they'd likely want bonuses leaning towards (small-to-mid) recharge, end reduction and accuracy, among whatever else would be in there. No, I don't actually have example sets in mind 🙂 I just noticed the lack and wanted to throw the idea out there for future IO sets.

 

If people want to try to figure out a set or three, hey, go nuts.

[johnnysc]

This was a problem I ran into when trying to slot my dominator.  I ended up slotting with damage sets.

 

I'd like to recommend that a third possibility would be a set leaning toward a balance between dmg/hold/recharge, possibly with +recharge as the 5/6 set member bonus.

 

[MTeague]

If such sets were added I would *definitely* look at them on my Mind/Kin.

Currently I have both Dominate and Mass Domination slotted with Lockdown for the extra +2 Hold and the extra Ranged Defense. 

 

But below level 38, he was a shall we say, a Crock Pot / Slow Cooker. 

single target Rotation of Dominate/Mezmerize/Levitate, and only levitate had Dmg enhancements in it. 

occasional use of damage-slotted Terrify after that became available. 

 

Now, I certainly *could* have slotted Mezmerize for +Damage, even if I'd wanted to keep Dominate kept as pure control / extended hold duration for sake of stacking magnitudes on tougher bosses.

But levelling him, I was firmly "my job is to CONTROL, damage can come as a side effect", and got used to Confuse mobs being a healthy chunk of my damage when soloing.

 

After level 38 of course, I got Fulcrum Shift.  And my damage issues kind of went away.

But if he wansn't /Kin, I likely would have had to make different choices along the way.

[MTeague]

14 minutes ago, johnnysc said:

This was a problem I ran into when trying to slot my dominator.  I ended up slotting with damage sets.

 

I'd like to recommend that a third possibility would be a set leaning toward a balance between dmg/hold/recharge, possibly with +recharge as the 5/6 set member bonus.

 

I'd actually be LESS likely to slot these sets on a Dominator. You have your entire secondary tree to melt face with. The primary is to hold your enemies down while your secondary does unspeakable things do them.  Really, it's on a Controller, where very often your Primary *IS* your damaging tree, that I could see these being used.  

[Redlynne]

33 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I'd actually be LESS likely to slot these sets on a Dominator. You have your entire secondary tree to melt face with. The primary is to hold your enemies down while your secondary does unspeakable things do them.  Really, it's on a Controller, where very often your Primary *IS* your damaging tree, that I could see these being used.  

@MTeague said it before I could.

This is one of the reasons why I feel like the Controller ATOs are just bass ackwards game design for what Controllers NEED in their ATOs.  Controller ATOs are all Acc/End/MEZ/Rech with procs tacked onto the end of them ... meaning that realistically you ought to be 6 slotting them into control powers that do no damage ... and Controllers don't have a whole lot of those in their primary powersets.  Controllers need their control powers to control AND damage, but the segregation between those two priorities is very nearly absolute such that you can't find Damage/Hold or Damage/Stun or Damage/Immobilize or even Damage/Fear outside of HO type enhancements (Titan origin, etc.).

 

It's enough to make me think that we would be so much better off, especially in a PPM world for procs, in which we took the existing Mez Sets and simply duplicated them to make additional copies of them and then on the additional copies changed the Recharge enhancement parameter to being a Damage enhancement parameter ... and just kept all the set bonuses exactly the same on both copies.  The only exception to this that I can think of wanting would be just outright changing the Controller ATOs in order to drop Recharge out of them entirely and replace that part of them with Damage enhancement on the Controller ATOs only.

 

Here's an example of the difference this kind of change would make possible.

 

---

 

Lockdown (1)

• Lockdown: Accuracy/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Recharge
• Lockdown: Recharge/Hold
• Lockdown: Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold 

Set Bonues:

• Two enhancements improves the Damage of all your powers by 3%.
• Three enhancements improves the duration of your Hold effects by 2.5%.
• Four enhancements reduces the duration of Hold effects on you by 2.2%.
• Five enhancements increases Area Effect Defense by 2.5%.
• Five enhancements increases Fire and Cold Defense by 1.25%.
• Six enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 3.75%.
• Six enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 1.88%.

 

---

 

Lockdown (2)

• Lockdown: Accuracy/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Damage
• Lockdown: Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Endurance/Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Endurance/Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold

Set Bonues:

• Two enhancements improves the Damage of all your powers by 3%.
• Three enhancements improves the duration of your Hold effects by 2.5%.
• Four enhancements reduces the duration of Hold effects on you by 2.2%.
• Five enhancements increases Area Effect Defense by 2.5%.
• Five enhancements increases Fire and Cold Defense by 1.25%.
• Six enhancements increases Ranged Defense by 3.75%.
• Six enhancements increases Energy and Negative Energy Defense by 1.88%.

[MTeague]

34 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

<snip>

.....took the existing Mez Sets and simply duplicated them to make additional copies of them and then on the additional copies changed the Recharge enhancement parameter to being a Damage enhancement parameter ... and just kept all the set bonuses exactly the same on both copies.....

<snip>

 

<snip>

Lockdown (2)

• Lockdown: Accuracy/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Damage
• Lockdown: Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Endurance/Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Accuracy/Endurance/Damage/Hold
• Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag Hold

<snip>

 

That would take some considering.  Lack of +Recharge in the powers themselves makes it more difficult to stack magnitudes on a boss.

You'd still have +Hold duration, of course, but Hold and Recharge comes at it from both directions.

 

OTOH, I get "Here's your cake. Have it, or Eat it. Pick one." 

If this was the price, well, it might be worth paying. And the answer might even be different at different stages of play, and depending on your secondary. 

 

On my Mind/Kin, I can still get a lot of +Recharge from Siphon Speed, to have some confidence I'm still spitting out the Holds fast enough. But a Mind/Emp might evaluate it differently, and a Fire/Poison might decide between the Imps and the Poison debuffs they're not lacking for any damage and would prefer raw lockdown.  And that's cool too.  Nice to have there not be any clear "Best" slotting that's always true across the board.

Edited May 27, 2020 by MTeague

[Powercreep]

Yup! My long quest must start somewhere! Might as well be here!

Edited May 28, 2020 by Powercreep

[...]

2 hours ago, Powercreep said:

Yup! My long quest must start somewhere! Might as well be here!

Cute. 

 

That said, trollers are very middle of the pack right now.

 

Doms might have a use for such sets, depending on the bonuses and enhancement values. But I doubt it would change doms much to have your single target hold do a little bit more damage. Maybe in something like seismic smash. But hecatomb would still probably be better there. 

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Powercreep said:

Yup! My long quest must start somewhere! Might as well be here!

Start the quest as an Earth/FF or Ice/Emp 'troller and say that. 😉

[Bionic_Flea]

I've always wanted a mez set with damage.

 

Is Anti-/jranger a thing?