Building Dominators for the AE

[oedipus_tex]

I recently started joining "challenge teams" for AE runs. These are mission arcs specifically designed to challenge a team of incarnates. It's helped revive my interest in the game.

 

What's cool is how the nature of the AE can radically alter the meta of the game. The value of certain powers becomes evident when the dynamic shifts. The Dominator class in particular, which I consider "so-so"in normal content, is a vital team member on AE challenge missions due to being the only class that can mostly-reliably shut down all-boss spawns, which are rare in normal content but frequent in the AE.

Here are a few things I've noticed:

 

• Suprisingly good powers:
  • Static Field. This is the Electric Control Sleep patch. In normal content it's pretty good. In the AE, as long as your teammates understand how it works, it's really becomes a breakout power. Many powersets with mezz protection have either a Sleep, Fear, or Confusion hole. Sleep specifically is a hole that many Archvillains are subject to. Figuring out where to place your Static Fields (plural--you can and should drop them whenever the power recharges) is a strategy question. A favorite trick I find myself using is running around a wall and dropping the patch right inside the door to fend off ambushes. Static Field recharges very quickly, and can be placed around corners. The only real downside is how it conflicts with DoTs.
  • Mesmerize. This is the Mind Control power that doesn't get much notice in normal content. It's a Mag 4 Sleep, Mag 8 for perma-Dominators. Mildly useful in normal content, incredibly useful when AVs and Elite Bosses can appear in wild ambushes
  • Telekinesis. Yes, this infamous not great power, for one reason: it's autohit. No amount of spammed Hurricanes or Fearsome Stares can make it miss. 
  • Knock Patches. Don't roll ToHit, so are useful for reasons above, for enemies subject to Knock.
  • Confusion powers in general. In normal content, you rarely encounter NPC Masterminds, pet owners, or Storm Summoners. In the AE they turn up a lot more frequently. Not only do these powers turn the pets on their masters, they last longer than other controls and generally won't draw aggro. 
    • -ToHit and Endurance Drain. It's hard to build a custom enemy that resists both these categories of debuff. You do tend to find enemies who ignore mezz, much less likely are enemies who resist endurance drain.
      • However, Electric Control probably should still try to play somewhat ranged, so the strategy that emerges is Electric Fences slotted for endurance drain. 
    • Snipes. Killer minions are rare in normal content but show up with some frequency in the AE. Being able to discreetly peck them off becomes a huge asset.

 

 

• Difficulties:
  • Death happens a lot more frequently in the AE. This can lead to a perma Dom being stuck in a cycle of unable to maintain Domination mode. Dying is a really hard penalty for Dominators relative to other sets. 
  • Melee and PBAOE Dominators struggle. It's just too hazardous to go toe to toe with enemies tuned to kill Brutes and Tanks. My Elec/Psi Dom, normally a PBAoE character, spends a lot of fights ducking behind corners.
  • Hover and Fly become difficult to use or useless due to so many AE enemies with some form of Fly.

 

 

Any else got observations or builds to share? I've decided my next character will be built specifically for for the AE. Looking not just at Dominators, but all classes. Sentinels, surprisngly, look to have a ton of promise for AE missions to a combo of armor and ranged attacks.

Edited July 23, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Mezmera]

Yeah I ran one of these solo a couple of times.  Did pretty good the first time round after my first death and realized I'd have to switch things up a tad.  I've got a zerging melee-centric playstyle but the EB's were nasty so I would have to slow up and be sure to confuse them first to make them my pets before I went ham on the group.  Once the EBs were mine I'd then jump in with an AoE control and go to town with my damage.  

 

I run with capped defenses and high resists and even with my controls I'd still find myself having to retreat a bit to herd whomever I hadn't put under control from the start so I could see for certain who else I needed to engage in the moment.  Typically I'd get 2/3 to 3/4 of the group under my thumb and the rest I'd hope the hammer dealt with them.  Mesmerize is a fine power but I'd never use it since that activation time could be better used confusing someone.  

 

My best character is my Mind/Energy/Soul and yeah she got a good workout compared to most of the other mundane regular content.  I have Mass Confusion, Total Domination and Terrify, typically anytime I play it I alternate Mass Confusion and Total Domination per mob and let Terrify fill in where I may have missed some control.  The fights were a tad bit harder so I'd find myself using all my controls each mob as necessary and even popping Demonic from time to time.  The one certain thing though was that the EBs must be yours or it'd get dicey.  

 

Soul Drain is a real big power if you can handle being in the heart of the storm.  

 

The hardest time I had doing one of these was more about the roaming mobs that'd show up from right around the corner when you're already engaged with another group or the roamers would roam their way to the mission entrance.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mezmera

[Nyghtmaire]

I love the premise and the design goals. This approach accentuates the strengths of the AT, providing greater play flexibility in the general game as well.

 

In light of the above, do you envision a range-cap focus, or plan for more broad-based levels of defense and resistance (leaning on teammates having defense powers, maneuvers, etc.). My very limited experience in this AE mission - and truly, only on the lowest difficulty - stressed target selection and positioning. And the villain alignment power (frenzy) is a real boon following the inevitable/likely death to refill domination.
 

That said, it certainly let me fall in love with my fire/fire dom again. And yes, the melee centric focus of my build was a disaster, so back to drawing board for a more range-focused build. 

[Mezmera]

6 minutes ago, Nyghtmaire said:

I love the premise and the design goals. This approach accentuates the strengths of the AT, providing greater play flexibility in the general game as well.

 

In light of the above, do you envision a range-cap focus, or plan for more broad-based levels of defense and resistance (leaning on teammates having defense powers, maneuvers, etc.). My very limited experience in this AE mission - and truly, only on the lowest difficulty - stressed target selection and positioning. And the villain alignment power (frenzy) is a real boon following the inevitable/likely death to refill domination.
 

That said, it certainly let me fall in love with my fire/fire dom again. And yes, the melee centric focus of my build was a disaster, so back to drawing board for a more range-focused build. 

Oh I didn't mention I had done these solo, I can cap my Ranged, Melee and AoE defenses internally on my dom.  But yeah you'll want to ease your way into these mobs and maybe rely a bit more on range than you may be used to.  

[Hjarki]

The problem I've had with Dominators is the same one I have with Blasters: I can build a support AT that can approximate their performance solo while bringing enormously more to a team setting.

8 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Suprisingly good powers:

With the exception of Confuse, all of those powers are just as good on Controllers as Dominators.

8 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Hover and Fly become difficult to use or useless due to so many AE enemies with some form of Fly.

Most of the AE Immobilize have -fly attached.

3 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Soul Drain is a real big power if you can handle being in the heart of the storm.  

I tend to be very skeptical of Soul Drain on almost any AT. First of all, it's only useful on large spawns and provides no real benefit against hard single targets. Second of all, even the best Soul Drain creates a demand for recharge that's often out-of-line with the rest of build. This in turn tends to create builds that go Spiritual/Agility rather than Musculature/Intuition - which sharply reduces the value of a +damage buff.

 

For Dominators in particular, not only do they only get the 'bad' version of Soul Drain (240 sec recharge) but it means they're not taking Sleet - which is a significantly better ability. A maximum target Soul Drain is +68% damage. On top of the +100% damage or so you slot, this means you're getting +34% damage, half the time, and only against large spawns. Contrast to +30% damage against any type of spawn, useable from range, with a recharge low enough you can use it pretty much every spawn.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

I tend to be very skeptical of Soul Drain on almost any AT. First of all, it's only useful on large spawns and provides no real benefit against hard single targets. Second of all, even the best Soul Drain creates a demand for recharge that's often out-of-line with the rest of build. This in turn tends to create builds that go Spiritual/Agility rather than Musculature/Intuition - which sharply reduces the value of a +damage buff.

 

For Dominators in particular, not only do they only get the 'bad' version of Soul Drain (240 sec recharge) but it means they're not taking Sleet - which is a significantly better ability. A maximum target Soul Drain is +68% damage. On top of the +100% damage or so you slot, this means you're getting +34% damage, half the time, and only against large spawns. Contrast to +30% damage against any type of spawn, useable from range, with a recharge low enough you can use it pretty much every spawn.

Um there seems to be a real problem with your numbers here.  I just logged in and checked some stats of my own real quick.  I have a base of 45% additional damage from bonuses already and 89% tohitt.  

 

Running into a standard 54x8 mob I dropped my Soul Drain on the group and with that I would do to 10 targets 170pts of damage not counting my purple set proc'ing.  So right there in of itself pretty decent AoE damage to be had which pairs nicely with AoE your primary or secondary can provide.  

 

Having my combat log showing my base damage went from that 45% to 147%.  So that's 102% increase, and I must have missed some targets because I've seen my Soul Drain boost me over 120% almost all the time that I have a bunch of targets.  Not to be discounted also is that my tohitt gets boosted as well so I went from 89% to 120%. 

 

The boosts are more front loaded as well in consideration of such the event where you're fighting a solo AV so even when you do use Soul Drain in that instance you're still doing the damage and getting a decently good boost to damage and tohitt.  AoE in general is under performing in instances where it's a solo target hence why Street Justice stalkers are better at those than say a TW scrapper, it doesn't mean either one is bad it just means the one has a slight edge but overall TW is the animal wrecking things on that team.  So the same could be applied to Sleet, yes it's better in the instance where it's a prolonged solo fight but not that much better.  

 

Then lets look at the rest of the powers available in those epics.  You have a defense shield for S/L and some cold resist, I already have capped defenses before any epic powers so defense does nothing for me here and even if it did I would want it to be Range, Melee and or AoE.  So the resist shield you get from Soul is by default the better one for most and it gives resist to S/L/Neg/Tox.  Then the only good other power in Ice Mastery is the heal which has at least double the recharge of Soul Drain, I can just use a medium green from my tray and get the same effect, talk about a power with minimal use.  Another useful power in Soul is Dark Consumption, even with Perma-dom well built doms tend to run out of endurance faster than they would health and this power is a nice emergency to have with minimal slotting for maximum effect and as a bonus it still adds to your AoE damage.  You want to talk about dps how about the boss pet you can also get from this pool.  

 

Then there's the bit about the recharge, almost every dom wants to build for perma-dom which means by default you're going to have great internal recharge slotted.  My Soul Drain boost lasts for 30 seconds then goes away for 30 seconds and then I can have it right back again.  

 

I can keep going on but I think you get my point.  Yes in an isolated prolonged instance sleet would be better to have but Soul Drain far outshines it in just about everything and then there's just so much more win in the Soul Mastery pool as a whole.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mezmera

[Hjarki]

8 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Um there seems to be a real problem with your numbers here.  I just logged in and checked some stats of my own real quick.  I have a base of 45% additional damage from bonuses already and 89% tohitt. 

That 45% additional damage is on top of the +100% damage or so you have slotted into your powers. So if you have +45% damage, that means your attack powers are probably running somewhere in the range of 2.45x damage (100% base + 100% enhancements + 45% bonus damage).

 

Checking in-game, the numbers differ from Mid's - it's 34% + 6.8%/target for +102% on 10 targets. So you'd increase your damage by 347/245 = 41.6%. However, this increase is dependent on 10 targets in close melee range and even with +300% recharge, 50% up-time. If you're using it in conjunction with a 42.5% Boost ability (the most common type from Assault sets), then you're only getting a 35.5% increase. Contrast that with a flat 30% boost that you can use from range, doesn't diminish in value with Inspirations, can effectively make 'perma' and benefits your pets/teammates as well.

8 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Running into a standard 54x8 mob I dropped my Soul Drain on the group and with that I would do to 10 targets 170pts of damage not counting my purple set proc'ing.  So right there in of itself pretty decent AoE damage to be had which pairs nicely with AoE your primary or secondary can provide.  

170 points of damage is less than you'd be doing with your standard Assault set PBAoE on a considerably shorter recharge. Given the very long recharge, the additional damage is somewhat negligible.

8 hours ago, Mezmera said:

You have a defense shield for S/L and some cold resist, I already have capped defenses before any epic powers so defense does nothing for me here and even if it did I would want it to be Range, Melee and or AoE.

I tend to prefer positional defenses myself, but I find it hard to believe that your always-on positional defenses are capped. Are you sure you're not talking about temporary bonuses on a build that's effectively defenseless half the time?

 

Moreover, while I might like not like S/L defense, it does provide a LotG mule at the very least. Given the lack of defense powers in primary/secondary for Dominators, this can often be important.

8 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Then the only good other power in Ice Mastery is the heal which has at least double the recharge of Soul Drain, I can just use a medium green from my tray and get the same effect, talk about a power with minimal use.  Another useful power in Soul is Dark Consumption, even with Perma-dom well built doms tend to run out of endurance faster than they would health and this power is a nice emergency to have with minimal slotting for maximum effect and as a bonus it still adds to your AoE damage.  You want to talk about dps how about the boss pet you can also get from this pool.  

Hoarfrost will also increase your hit points by 45% or so slotted, which in turn increases your Regeneration by the same amount for the duration of the effect.

 

If you're concerned about endurance, Hibernate has a lower recharge than Dark Consumption and doesn't require a crowd of enemies to use.

 

In terms of damage, the summon pets from epic pools are usually of minimal use because Dominators have no realistic way to keep them alive and they don't do all that much damage anyway. Cold also has Ice Storm, which does triple the damage of Soul Drain on half the recharge and can be used at range.

[Mezmera]

4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

That 45% additional damage is on top of the +100% damage or so you have slotted into your powers. So if you have +45% damage, that means your attack powers are probably running somewhere in the range of 2.45x damage (100% base + 100% enhancements + 45% bonus damage).

 

Checking in-game, the numbers differ from Mid's - it's 34% + 6.8%/target for +102% on 10 targets. So you'd increase your damage by 347/245 = 41.6%. However, this increase is dependent on 10 targets in close melee range and even with +300% recharge, 50% up-time. If you're using it in conjunction with a 42.5% Boost ability (the most common type from Assault sets), then you're only getting a 35.5% increase. Contrast that with a flat 30% boost that you can use from range, doesn't diminish in value with Inspirations, can effectively make 'perma' and benefits your pets/teammates as well.

170 points of damage is less than you'd be doing with your standard Assault set PBAoE on a considerably shorter recharge. Given the very long recharge, the additional damage is somewhat negligible.

I tend to prefer positional defenses myself, but I find it hard to believe that your always-on positional defenses are capped. Are you sure you're not talking about temporary bonuses on a build that's effectively defenseless half the time?

 

Moreover, while I might like not like S/L defense, it does provide a LotG mule at the very least. Given the lack of defense powers in primary/secondary for Dominators, this can often be important.

Hoarfrost will also increase your hit points by 45% or so slotted, which in turn increases your Regeneration by the same amount for the duration of the effect.

 

If you're concerned about endurance, Hibernate has a lower recharge than Dark Consumption and doesn't require a crowd of enemies to use.

 

In terms of damage, the summon pets from epic pools are usually of minimal use because Dominators have no realistic way to keep them alive and they don't do all that much damage anyway. Cold also has Ice Storm, which does triple the damage of Soul Drain on half the recharge and can be used at range.

Like I said your numbers you are trying to justify with whatever manipulation you're thinking of in your head. 

 

+120% damage bonus + 30% tohitt + 170 points of damage (and purple procs AND Hybrid double hit) > -30% resist.

 

For my defenses I go with the Force of Will Pool, I powerboost Unleash Potential which'll put all of my positionals well over 56% defense and my lowest elemental defense would be psi defense at 49%.  Before you get ahead of yourself on this, I have this defense up for a minute and down for about a 1:15 before I have it available again.  My ranged defenses are always capped at all times and in the minute of downtime for Unleash Potential I'll just use Barrier which'll cap my defenses for another minute along with having major resistances.  Then if I'm ever in dire need I have as an emergency Demonic like in these AE proving grounds.  I'm good on defense so yeah that Ice shield would only be a Lotg mule.  So in short layers upon layers of defenses and resists are where it's at.  

 

Speaking of debuffing resistance in a solo AV fight, I make use of Weaken Resolve.  I don't slot it but for the Achille's proc so with the recharge of the power I'm slated to have a 90% chance of that firing on target.  So if I don't miss my target I routinely debuff AVs of -27.5% resistance.  So um yeah....

 

Hibernate is terrible (aside from essential in pvp), with 2 slots on Dark Consumption I can go from 10% to full endurance with just two targets plus again as a bonus it adds to aoe potential.  

 

The only benefit of Hoarfrost would yes be the hp buff but I'm at 1500 hp already so it's meh to me.  The recharge of the heal is a big turnoff since you're the one most concerned with long recharging powers.  Pop a green problem solved.  

 

The dominator epic pets are the best pets you can get aside from the Lores.  Your point was to point out when grinding out damage against a solo AV and I put to you that the epic pets are more suited to max out your dps than anything in the Ice Mastery.  You're right that they get minimal use with me but that's because I'm blowing through mobs like they are made of paper, I'd only really use them for the boss fights.  If you want to keep them alive in said fight protip you can spawn them to the back of the AV.  

 

We need not argue this here you're more than welcome to come try to solo the topic of the OP to see who's got what it takes.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mezmera

[Hjarki]

36 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Like I said your numbers you are trying to justify with whatever manipulation you're thinking of in your head. 

No, Sleet is just flat-out better than Soul Drain. It's dramatically better against a single target. It's merely a lot better against large spawns.

 

I think you're getting confused because you're thinking +120% damage actually means +120% damage. It doesn't. As I pointed out, it means more like +40% damage if you meet the stringent use conditions - and not including any damage that doesn't derive from the base damage of your abilities. Everything else - pets, procs, teammates - isn't buffed. But all of that is buffed by Sleet.

46 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

For my defenses I go with the Force of Will Pool, I powerboost Unleash Potential which'll put all of my positionals well over 56% defense and my lowest elemental defense would be psi defense at 49%.  Before you get ahead of yourself on this, I have this defense up for a minute and down for about a 1:15 before I have it available again.  My ranged defenses are always capped at all times and in the minute of downtime for Unleash Potential I'll just use Barrier which'll cap my defenses for another minute along with having major resistances.  Then if I'm ever in dire need I have as an emergency Demonic.  I'm good on defense so yeah that Ice shield would only be a Lotg mule.  So in short layers upon layers of defenses and resists are where it's at.  

The reason temporary boosts such as this are customarily omitted from discussing defenses is that you can do the same thing with any of your defenses. So it renders any discussion of the value of the underlying defenses moot. However, what it doesn't render moot is what happens when those temporary boosts aren't available.

 

Remember, most players build their characters for a broad range of content, so depending on abilities that might not be available simply to function means you can't be very effective outside of your narrow focus.

[Mezmera]

53 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

1 minute ago, Hjarki said:

No, Sleet is just flat-out better than Soul Drain. It's dramatically better against a single target. It's merely a lot better against large spawns.

 

I think you're getting confused because you're thinking +120% damage actually means +120% damage. It doesn't. As I pointed out, it means more like +40% damage if you meet the stringent use conditions - and not including any damage that doesn't derive from the base damage of your abilities. Everything else - pets, procs, teammates - isn't buffed. But all of that is buffed by Sleet.

The reason temporary boosts such as this are customarily omitted from discussing defenses is that you can do the same thing with any of your defenses. So it renders any discussion of the value of the underlying defenses moot. However, what it doesn't render moot is what happens when those temporary boosts aren't available.

 

Remember, most players build their characters for a broad range of content, so depending on abilities that might not be available simply to function means you can't be very effective outside of your narrow focus.

We need not argue this here you're more than welcome to come try to solo the topic of the OP to see who's got what it takes.  

^

[Coyote]

52 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

+120% damage bonus + 30% tohitt + 170 points of damage (and purple procs AND Hybrid double hit) > -30% resist.

 

This argument is not so simple as saying this > that.

 

If you have an attack that does 100 base damage, and you slot it up and add set bonuses so that it's +100% damage, the attack does 200 damage.

Add in a +120% bonus and you do 320, a 60% increase. If the buff is up 50% of the time, your damage increase theoretically averages to 30%.

A -30% resist that is up every fight also theoretically does the same thing.

 

Now, a self-buff doesn't care about location, so it is useful against stragglers. But a -resist will boost proc and pet damage (and incarnate powers) while a +Damage buff won't.

And a -resist will help team damage, making it more useful when on any team.

And Sleet is also a useful debuff with good -Recharge and knockdown, while Soul Drain does AoE damage (though, not much considering its recharge).

 

Personally, I consider Sleet > Soul Drain. It's not so obviously better that there aren't situations where Soul Drain may do better, but... I think the argument that Soul Drain > Sleet is wrong most of the time, and implying that it's clearly better with no caveats is just wrong.

[Mezmera]

Just now, Coyote said:

 

This argument is not so simple as saying this > that.

 

If you have an attack that does 100 base damage, and you slot it up and add set bonuses so that it's +100% damage, the attack does 200 damage.

Add in a +120% bonus and you do 320, a 60% increase. If the buff is up 50% of the time, your damage increase theoretically averages to 30%.

A -30% resist that is up every fight also theoretically does the same thing.

 

Now, a self-buff doesn't care about location, so it is useful against stragglers. But a -resist will boost proc and pet damage (and incarnate powers) while a +Damage buff won't.

And a -resist will help team damage, making it more useful when on any team.

And Sleet is also a useful debuff with good -Recharge and knockdown, while Soul Drain does AoE damage (though, not much considering its recharge).

 

Personally, I consider Sleet > Soul Drain. It's not so obviously better that there aren't situations where Soul Drain may do better, but... I think the argument that Soul Drain > Sleet is wrong most of the time, and implying that it's clearly better with no caveats is just wrong.

I listed all of the accomplishments of Soul Drain and the Soul Mastery pool in general vs Ice Mastery.  It''s a lot to read I know but if you're going to try to insinuate I'm giving generalities then I surmise you're not looking at what I'm saying.  

 

So I'll leave you with this as well:

5 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

We need not argue this here you're more than welcome to come try to solo the topic of the OP to see who's got what it takes.  

 

[Coyote]

5 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Remember, most players build their characters for a broad range of content, so depending on abilities that might not be available simply to function means you can't be very effective outside of your narrow focus.

 

It is reasonable, though, if you build a character who can have a defensive rotation, and alternate Unleash Potential and Barrier so that they're always running at a minimum level that includes a temporary power, as long as you make sure that you have enough defensive coverage to always run at least at that power.

For example, I have a Regen Brute who alternates 4 powers (IH,MoG twice, Melee Hybrid)... none of them have more than 50% uptime, but combined I can guarantee that the character is never running JUST at their base defensive level. Then, it's reasonable to plan the character's defense when using their weakest defensive power (IH... except against Psy damage, where there are gaps since MoG doesn't cover that).

[Coyote]

4 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

We need not argue this here you're more than welcome to come try to solo the topic of the OP to see who's got what it takes.  

 

Weak argument.

1: maybe I don't have a character who can do this.

2: maybe I don't have to time or interest (though the missions DO sound interesting)

3: maybe I'm great at design but terrible at playing

4: maybe my character is better defensively but terrible on offense or control.

 

Using a "play to prove your numbers" argument is exactly the most wrong that anyone can possibly be. When designing (or comparing) game statistics, taking playing ability out of the comparison is the first and most baseline step, because it is impossible to account for players experience, skill, or even compatibility with how a build plays. One should never argue that a set, power, design, or whatever, is good because they can accomplish something with it. It's a reasonable argument if you average it out over a large sample of players, but never when comparing two single players.

 

Oh, just to answer this: "I listed all of the accomplishments of Soul Drain and the Soul Mastery pool in general vs Ice Mastery.  It''s a lot to read I know but if you're going to try to insinuate I'm giving generalities then I surmise you're not looking at what I'm saying.   "
... I saw what you're saying, and I specifically answered the -Resist vs +Damage argument, only. I mean, it could be possible that Soul Mastery is FAR better than Ice Mastery, while everything that I said is still correct. I didn't address the balance between the two pools overall, just between the two specific powers.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Coyote

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, Coyote said:

 

Weak argument.

1: maybe I don't have a character who can do this.

2: maybe I don't have to time or interest (though the missions DO sound interesting)

3: maybe I'm great at design but terrible at playing

4: maybe my character is better defensively but terrible on offense or control.

 

Using a "play to prove your numbers" argument is exactly the most wrong that anyone can possibly be. When designing (or comparing) game statistics, taking playing ability out of the comparison is the first and most baseline step, because it is impossible to account for players experience, skill, or even compatibility with how a build plays. One should never argue that a set, power, design, or whatever, is good because they can accomplish something with it. It's a reasonable argument if you average it out over a large sample of players, but never when comparing two single players.

Okay then you can come watch me and have something to aspire to...

[ThrillMill]

Any Map #'s? I hadn't heard of this but I'd like to try it out. 

[Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Okay then you can come watch me and have something to aspire to...

 

You go do you, and enjoy it.
I'll come watch when I feel the need to aspire to something.
Until then, have fun. 👍

[Mezmera]

2 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

You go do you, and enjoy it.
I'll come watch when I feel the need to aspire to something.
Until then, have fun. 👍

K then.  Maybe check your fire when tossing out your generalities.  😜

[oedipus_tex]

17 hours ago, Hjarki said:

Most of the AE Immobilize have -fly attached.

 

That was a typo. I meant to type -Fly. And you are correct, which is why Hover and Fly are much harder to use. Most custom AE enemies who are patterned after Controllers will have the immobilize, because, unless their other set is a Blast/Melee set, they have to take them in order for the mob to be worth 100% XP value. This is actually a balance issue I wrestle with when making Control type characters. They can pull flyers from the air with ease.

 

 

Quote

With the exception of Confuse, all of those powers are just as good on Controllers as Dominators.

 

I assume by this you mean that some of these powers do not Dominate, which is true for some of them.

 

However there isn't an Electric or Mind Controller other than /Storm that can come anywhere in the ballpark of the damage potential of an Electric\ or Mind\ Dominator. I wouldn't even consider an Electric or Mind Controller for this kind of content other than as a pure support character. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Frosticus]

I don't think pulling a tape measure out is necessary.

 

I love sleet, one of the best powers in the game. Boost physical damage, boosts procs, boosts pets, teammates, basically everything under the sun. Offers a bit of control too.

That said, it is only a 19.5% debuff to resistance vs +3's. The +dam of soul drain works as advertised.

 

Additionally, if the content is difficult enough you probably won't want to open with sleet. Even a def capped squishy with decent resistances will drop fast against hard unmitigated AE spawns. Whereas the +tohit/dam buff of soul drain can carry you right into the next spawn ensuring all your crucial controls hit. Yes it is easy to hit +3's in normal pve, but lots of AE content has +def/tohit debuffs in spades. 

 

Obviously the terrible (absolutely terrible) uptime of soul drain is all that really holds it back for doms. They could really use the 120 version that defenders have access to. 

 

I think hoarfrost is mostly junk. Why do trollers get a 360 version (earths embrace), but doms have a 540 version? plus so much of the hp is wasted on the low AT cap. 

While I always gravitate towards ice app, I think mu is actually my favorite over all. 

[Nyghtmaire]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I think hoarfrost is mostly junk.

Decent for leveling though it comes late. The remainder, not junk, benefit is the availability of a different range of recharge bonuses from healing sets. 

[oedipus_tex]

Interesting discussion. Frosticus I'd like to hear why you like the Mu app. I was using that for a while on Elec/Psi and recently gravitated to Elec/Psi/Primal, altho Mu had a lot going for it, Mainly, Power Sink which on an Electric build is outrageously good at flooring Elite Boss endurance.

 

I happen to think the Primal APP is extremely underrated.

• It has two AoE blasts to pick from, Energy Torrent and Explosive Blast
  • Energy Torrent is the same old Energy Torrent. Fast cast time (1.07 seconds) only really held back by its target cap, 10 versus 16. I actually normally don't pick this, choosing Explosive Blast instead, but it's interesting that it's here. 
  • Now here's what's weird. Explosive Blast. It recharges in 16 seconds, which is twice as fast as the other Domintor AoE blasts. But it costs 28(!) endurance. That's unmanageable for most builds unless...
    • Unless you have Conserve Power, which,... bing!... this APP has!  
• It has Energy Transfer. 266 damage with a 2.6 second cast time. It also damages the caster. Which is annoying, except there are two Assault sets that can heal it right back, Psi and Dark.
• Conserve Power never gets enough attention in my opinion. I think that's because it's effect is subtle. In actual play on a high recharge build it's a very good endurance management tool.  

[oedipus_tex]

RE: Sleet, one reason I tend to skip Ice is that although Sleet is great, the only AoE blast in //Ice is Ice Storm. It does good damage, but interrupts Sleep. I'm also a little confused about how it interacts with Fear. On Electric Control specifically, what I want is a one-shot knockdown power where hopefully the enemy is hit by the Sleep effect again before they stand up, putting them in lockout mode.

 

Sleep and Fear aren't usually great mezzes, but AE content is different from the canon game. AE designers seem to love Force Field, Traps, and Sonic Resonance bubbles. 

 

 

As for actual armored enemies, I hadn't until recently poked through them to see what I was up against. Here's the anti-mezz powers in 5 random armor sets in the AE. Things worth noting:

• For bosses and lieutenants, Mezz protection on enemies scales with their level, starting at around 3.5 at level 1 and ending at 10.38 at level 50 (I assume higher than that at 54?). So, to "beat" a mezz most boss enemies are armored against, you need to hit Mag 11. 
  • A perma-Dominator can do this with two casts of a mezz, generally.  
    • Oops nope, protection in armor stacks with protection from rank. So, a Boss has Mag 4 + 10.38 = 14.38 protection, which you can (generally) overcome with 3 stacks in Dom mode (6+6+6 = 18). Your best chance of doing this is probably a single target Hold, but Mind Control could use Dominate > Telekinesis > Dominate or throw Total Domination in there. Hold procs can help you out here.
• UPDATE: Minion armor mezz protections are somewhat lower, scaling up to around 7.8
• Most armor sets lack Confusion and Fear protection. I'm going to go a separate post on these two mezzes and what AE designers have to do to give these protections to their custom designs.

 

 

Dark Armor: Just really hope you don't run into Dark Armor. It is one of the new sets with protection to Fear, and note its anti mezz power provides +50% Resistance versus Psi. 

 

Note, Dark Armor is one of the few armors with no knock protection, the other obvious one being Fire. There aren't really many ways for designers to confer knock protection unless the critter has it in its armor set. The only powerset I know of that provides -Knock as a buff you can cast on others is Kinetics (Increase Density). Electric Affinity can also do it, but isn't present in the AE.

 

 

 

Note: Has an unusual form of knock/immobilize protection in the Grounded power that works only if the enemy is touching the ground. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

Taking a look at conferrable status protection next.

 

Here is Empathy's Clear Mind. It follows the same scaling as mezz protection provided by an armor, for 1 min 30 seconds. It also protects against mezz types most armors do not:

 

 

 

So of course the question is "How reliably does critter AI uses Clear Mind?" The answer to which is "It depends."

 

For sure, when given Clear Mind, some enemies will pre-stack it on their allies. They'll go one by one and cast it on each ally, creating a whole group that is super protected.  However, enemies don't always seem to be "awake" to do this. They for sure do it if they are guarding a captive, and maybe for some other objectives. I am not sure that standard enemies standing on a map do it unless they are part of a custom spawn.

 

In my experience, enemies that are part of an ambush or who are actively engaged in fighting do not cast it reliably. They are too interested in bashing your face in. They seem to cast it if they have nothing else available.

 

If you Confuse an enemy with Clear Mind it has a modest chance to cast it on you.

 

 

Compared to Clear Mind, here's how other anti mezzes compare:

• Poison (Antidote): Does not cover Confuse or Terrorize. Also provides some resistance to slow/recharge debuffs.
• Thermal (Thaw): Identical to Clear Mind, but provides a massive Run Speed and Recharge resistance buff (80%). I actually never realized this power was this good.
• Pain (Enforced Morale): Identical to Clear Mind with some tweaks to resistances/bonuses
• Sonic Resonance (Clarity): For some reason doesn't exist, so Sonic Resonance only gets mezz protection from its big bubble

 

 

For the AoE mezz protections, both big bubble powers (Force Field, Sonic Res) confer status as such:

 

 

 

Traps is not available in the AE.

 

 

One more worth a look: Steamy Mists (Storm). It has Confusion protection.  In fact, when you see Steamy Mists in the AE, you should probably go "Oh, I bet they gave the enemy that power to give the group its with Confusion protection.

 

 

 

The similar-ish powers Arctic Fog and Shadow Fall do not confer Mezz protection. Not sure if this is an oversight or not. On players, Shadow Fall confers Terrorize protection, the AE version does not seem to do this.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Interesting discussion. Frosticus I'd like to hear why you like the Mu app. I was using that for a while on Elec/Psi and recently gravitated to Elec/Psi/Primal, altho Mu had a lot going for it, Mainly, Power Sink which on an Electric build is outrageously good at flooring Elite Boss endurance.

 

For a more melee centric dom:

I like Mu because the armor is (imo) the best for the largest range of content.

Powersink can resolve almost all endurance woes

Ball lightning is an ok aoe, not the best

Force of Nature is a great unslotted panic button

Mu Guardian is a ranged pet that does a not so terrible job of healing