New Archetype speculation thread

[Completist]

Sentinel has created excitement for new ATs. What are your spec designs for new possibilities?

 

I don't think every primary/secondary combination needs to be explored but there are some options I'd like to see.

 

Marshal

Playstyle: Tank/Pets

Powersets: Assault (Primary), Pets (Secondary)

Innate: Marshals lead their Followers safely into the thick of battle. Each nearby enemy grants the Marshal and their pets a small amount of damage resistance, based on that enemy's current Health. Enemies at maximum Health provide the largest bonus, which diminishes as they take damage. Stronger foes, such as Archvillains, provide an even larger bonus. Your Pets' attacks have a chance to Taunt their target for a short time.

 

Notes:

Marshals would be potent Alpha soakers, easily running in to aggro big mobs but then taking significantly more damage as the numbers drop. It'd be fun to rush in as the vanguard and then shift to a more blapper-y target cleanup to protect your pets.

 

I'm thinking the resistance would be something pretty low but still substantial, ~2% per minion within 15' or 20' (max 10-15 targets), slightly higher boosts for Lts. and above. The resistance would be proportional to the enemy's health.

 

The Build Up slot in Assault would get a powerset-appropriate mez-resistance power instead.

 

 

 

 

Manipulator

Playstyle: Control

Powersets: Manipulation (Primary), Control (Secondary)

Innate: Manipulators find weaknesses in their enemies and masterfully exploit them. Your Primary or Secondary attacks apply an Edge debuff to the target, reducing its damage, damage resistance, and resistance to control powers for a moderate duration. Edges are specific to the type of damage dealt by the attack (Fire, Psionic, etc.). Focusing multiple types of damage on a target creates increased effects; however, Edges of the same type do not stack.

 

Notes:

With two control-heavy powersets Manipulators would be very good at locking down foes with repeated applications of different powers. Their Strategic Edge encourages them to diversify damage types. I'd test out roughly -5% damage and control resistance per Edge. -2.5% resistance to the applied damage and 5% to other types. If that wasn't exciting enough, maybe variety based on damage type could be neat too. I.e. Fire reduces cold resist significantly, and vice versa. dark reduces energy reduces psi reduces dark. What do you thinnk?

[_NOPE_]

Wizard/God/Titan/Neo from the Matrix - A class that can literally f*** with the game rules in unexpected ways:

 

• Make mobs take no damage
  
• Instakill mobs
  
• Clone mobs
  
• Make their pathing backwards (when the AI "presses" to go left, it makes them go right, etc)
  
• Make inspirations appear in allys' trays
  
• Enhance drop rates
  

 

Just "weird" stuff like that and tons of stuff I can't think of right now, get meta... I always wanted a "weird" archetype that could break the rules in previously unheard of ways. But I can see how that would be REALLY problematic to code and to balance... but hey, a man can dream can't he?

[Blastit]

I would kinda like to see a melee/support AT, but I have no idea what the inherent power should be or what to do about the melee sets' taunt spot. I'm pretty sure you don't want to have a taunt effect for an AT without mez protection. If you replace it with a mez protection toggle lifted from an appropriate armour set, you could have something like a corruptor that trades range and damage for survivability.

[summerheat]

Behold, my melee/support AT you asked for, but my take on it. Genies have to have some fun!

 

The Guardian

Playstyle: Support/Striker

Powersets: Buff (Primary) / Melee (Secondary)

Innate: Coverage. For the Guardian to do their job effectively, they are often tasked with being in the thick of things. As such, they often need a little bit of the protection they offer to their allies. As such, when applying supportive (buff) powers to allies, the Guardian receives 50-75% effective feedback upon themselves. Additionally, as the Guardian finds herself surrounded, she receives a small max-HP boost per foe to allow her to continue performing her duties.

 

Guardian Stats (?)

Survivability: 5

Melee Damage: 7

Ranged Damage: 3

Crowd Control: 4

Support: 9

Pets: 2

 

Primary Powersets: all known except Trick Arrow.(!)

Secondary Powersets: all scrapper except titan weapon.(!)

 

Limits @ L50:

HP Base: 1204.8 (from Stalker)

HP Maximum: 2088.3 (from Stalker)

Damage Resistance: 75% (Standard)

Damage: 200% at L1, 400% at L21+ (Standard)

Defense: 97.76% at L1, 200.38% at L21+ (Scrapper/Stalker)

Regeneration: 2,100% at L1, 2,500% at L20+ (Brute / Tanker)*

Recovery: 10.42% / second (Defender)

 

Unless otherwise specified follows the “all others” standard of values. Damage and dam. resist are specified because they’re such big deals for play-style impact with Defense and others.

 

Ancillary/Patron:

The Guardian should duplicate Scrapper/Stalker for initial proliferation and patron coverage. These gave minor control and ranged abilities suitable for the purpose of ancillary sets on melee striker toons.

 

Notes:

(?)The scoring was kept close to the current distributions and has a total of 30. Support is weaker than a defender, higher than a corruptor, which is higher than other buff secondary classes. Survivability needed to take a hit to compensate for the support shield sources, mixed in with Coverage adding to that compensation. With melee at a 7, it’s the same output as a tank, but debuff sets would further provide improved numbers from baseline that aren’t immediately perceived in a straight numbers comparison.

(!)Trick Arrow applies a significant amount of “ranged assumption” in play style, includes weapon swapping/drawing and other specific abilities risk a high gimmick feel that may become problematic when centered in melee.

Similar justification to trick arrow for buffing, but also has very slow animations, slower than any other set already paired with a buff powerset from other archetypes.

*the regen rates for scrappers / stalkers is actually higher, which broke my rule of meshing defender caps with scrapper caps in balancing. Because of the supportive nature of sets like empathy and kinetics and a higher proclivity for self heals in buff sets, (should this be attempted) I recommend testing at this level first before including Guardian at those higher rates. Further, the brute is set lower, and is intended to holding agro...

 

Thoughts: there are some potentially powerful combinations that will shine on farming maps, specifically kinetics/spines, while other riskier combinations might prove counter-intuitive. Some powersets might be too powerful with the melee factor (stares at kinetics) but others would be largely ambivalent (empathy) in melee vs ranged effectiveness.

Coverage seemed odd. I wanted some way for buff powersets that gave shields to shore up the weakness that ST buffs have re: source, but there are fewer powersets that have this than ones that do. Also, there needed to be other ways of benefiting from being in melee without defenses, which led to the HP buff aspect. It’s a start...

[Rylas]

Have I mentioned my hopes for a tank-mage like AT? No?

 

Think Defensive/Control-melee. Maybe somewhere between Sentinel and Scrapper defense numbers (blaster HP cap?) in its primary, and slightly increased damage on the control powers (with shorter durations) with 2-4 melee attacks (moderate damage at most) tossed in the secondary. Not unlike Blaster manipulation sets. Not capable of edging out Tanks or Brutes on their aggro abilities, and not edging out Dominators or Controllers on control powers. But capable of good crowd management and not being too slow on damage for some moderate solo performance.

 

For poops and giggles, I worked up an example of how one of the secondary sets could look.

 

Electrical Command

Tier 1 — Electric Fence: (short) Ranged, Moderate DoT(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -End, -Fly, -Knockback

Tier 2 — Charged Cage: Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Hold, -End

Tier 3 — Grounding Strike: PBAoE, Minor DMG(Energy), Foe Immobilize, -End, -Fly, -Knockback

Tier 4 — Chain Induction: Melee, Moderate DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe -End

Tier 5 — Conductive Aura: Toggle, PBAoE, Foe -End, Self +Rec, +Regen

Tier 6 — Lightning Clap: PBAoE, Knockdown

Tier 7 — Paralyzing Blast: PBAoE, Minor DoT(Energy), Foe Hold, -End

Tier 8 — Thunder Strike: Melee (Targeted AoE), High DMG(Smash/Energy), Foe Disorient, -Recovery

Tier 9 — Gremlins: Melee Minor DMG(Energy)

 

[zuel]

Behold, my melee/support AT you asked for, but my take on it. Genies have to have some fun!

 

As a fan of the Tsoo, I've always wanted to play Kinetics/melee or melee/Kinetics. Zipping around, speed boosting, whacking, healing. That said, you'd probably need 15 minutes in a quiet darkened room afterwards to prevent overstimulation.

[Completist]

Behold, my melee/support AT you asked for, but my take on it. Genies have to have some fun!

 

The Guardian

Playstyle: Support/Striker

Powersets: Buff (Primary) / Melee (Secondary)

Innate: Coverage. For the Guardian to do their job effectively, they are often tasked with being in the thick of things. As such, they often need a little bit of the protection they offer to their allies. As such, when applying supportive (buff) powers to allies, the Guardian receives 50-75% effective feedback upon themselves. Additionally, as the Guardian finds herself surrounded, she receives a small max-HP boost per foe to allow her to continue performing her duties.

 

I think they might be too good. If they are any more sturdy than a Defender, and they would be, they'd quickly outshine them. Give your buddy fortitude and now you get it too. I.e. you're getting +50% effect to all of your single target buffs (if the AT scale is low enough to compensate you end up with bad ones instead.)

 

Despite the potential for too good (esp. Kinetics as you mentioned) I'm iffy on having them not get a benefit when solo or without an ally to heal.

[summerheat]

As a fan of the Tsoo, I've always wanted to play Kinetics/melee or melee/Kinetics. Zipping around, speed boosting, whacking, healing. That said, you'd probably need 15 minutes in a quiet darkened room afterwards to prevent overstimulation.

I'm happy to see the sentiments of a melee ranged supporter are not unique :D

 

Behold, my melee/support AT you asked for, but my take on it. Genies have to have some fun!

 

The Guardian

Playstyle: Support/Striker

Powersets: Buff (Primary) / Melee (Secondary)

Innate: Coverage. For the Guardian to do their job effectively, they are often tasked with being in the thick of things. As such, they often need a little bit of the protection they offer to their allies. As such, when applying supportive (buff) powers to allies, the Guardian receives 50-75% effective feedback upon themselves. Additionally, as the Guardian finds herself surrounded, she receives a small max-HP boost per foe to allow her to continue performing her duties.

 

I think they might be too good. If they are any more sturdy than a Defender, and they would be, they'd quickly outshine them. Give your buddy fortitude and now you get it too. I.e. you're getting +50% effect to all of your single target buffs (if the AT scale is low enough to compensate you end up with bad ones instead.)

 

Despite the potential for too good (esp. Kinetics as you mentioned) I'm iffy on having them not get a benefit when solo or without an ally to heal.

Yep - This is the one thing on which I'm not happy with the result. However, they aren't that much sturdier. Defenders' survivability is a rating 4, so at a 5 it's almost a wash. Any amount of self defense is intended to make the Guardian work for this survival in consideration that they're expected to get into the thick. It might be too good, but it should be something that can be scaled down in tuning.

They need SOME form of defensive capability on sets that are heavily dependent with targeted allies, so it might be better as an exception built into the proliferation process than as their inherent. Secondly comes down to how the buffs interact with melee on solo forms, and the third on how the power ratings impact the exact numbers they get. It's hard to say that the support rating drops to 8 or 7 (matching corruptor or controller respectively). I hesitate on that since even buffed normally a tank doesn't throw out as much damage as other melee and I specifically chose the melee rating at 7 to match tanks. I don't want to use the secondary baselines for both sides of the AT, either. If the support was dropped to a 7, I'd swap the melee up to a 9 to give it a bit of oomf, and swap for Melee in the Primary path.

 

Kinetics is causing a lot of problems, and Guardians shouldn't be balanced around any one Powerset. I don't like that Kinetics would become an immediate outlier of "the popular kid" while something like Force Field struggles to stand out of the box. A lot of the sets are so mechanically derived around ranged targets and being squishy in balance that taking away both cause such instability. I suspect this is why no such AT like this existed prior or even made it out of a design phase if it got there.

 

Guardians need something to give them a minor defense/resistance  for soloing, but as something that doesn't overpower on a team of 8. Vigilance diminished in effectiveness with larger teams... Perhaps Coverage should act just like Vigilance, but applies a resist buff using the same table as Vigilance's damage buff. What do you think?

[gameboy1234]

Fun thread.

 

A friend on another forum recently ask for whip powers, or a binding archetype like Spiderman.

 

The whip powers could be like a cowboy's bullwhip, or maybe like Zoro or The Spider (masked mystery man).  With different sfx you could probably think of different ideas that might be a "whip."  Maybe even some sort of psychic lash.

 

Binding is probably a Dom or Controller.  Could  be a glue gun, some sort of spider power (we have Crabs in game), "tape" like what might be made by a machine, or even some sort of rope.  Wild idea: tie a rope around a boomerang and use that to tie up opponents.

 

 

[malonkey1]

Oh man, I remember starting a thread like this on the old official forums.

 

Some people came up with some good stuff there.

[jkwak]

Wizard/God/Titan/Neo from the Matrix - A class that can literally f*** with the game rules in unexpected ways:

 

• Make mobs take no damage
  
• Instakill mobs
  
• Clone mobs
  
• Make their pathing backwards (when the AI "presses" to go left, it makes them go right, etc)
  
• Make inspirations appear in allys' trays
  
• Enhance drop rates
  

 

Just "weird" stuff like that and tons of stuff I can't think of right now, get meta... I always wanted a "weird" archetype that could break the rules in previously unheard of ways. But I can see how that would be REALLY problematic to code and to balance... but hey, a man can dream can't he?

sound like a class that should be introduced at April fools day and only be around for April

 

edit: i just had an idea Diplomat

he is essentially an Mastermind but instead of Summoning his own pets he can convince his Enemys to fight on his side (except of course for things like a Boss, Archvillain, story importand enemys and other redicolouse strong enemys)

[Rylas]

Wizard/God/Titan/Neo from the Matrix - A class that can literally f*** with the game rules in unexpected ways:

 

• Make mobs take no damage
  
• Instakill mobs
  
• Clone mobs
  
• Make their pathing backwards (when the AI "presses" to go left, it makes them go right, etc)
  
• Make inspirations appear in allys' trays
  
• Enhance drop rates
  

 

Just "weird" stuff like that and tons of stuff I can't think of right now, get meta... I always wanted a "weird" archetype that could break the rules in previously unheard of ways. But I can see how that would be REALLY problematic to code and to balance... but hey, a man can dream can't he?

sound like a class that should be introduced at April fools day and only be around for April

 

edit: i just had an idea Diplomat

he is essentially an Mastermind but instead of Summoning his own pets he can convince his Enemys to fight on his side (except of course for things like a Boss, Archvillain, story importand enemys and other redicolouse strong enemys)

 

If this is diplomacy, it would be better if you just convinced them to walk away from the fight altogether. No XP rewarded.

[trogenion]

Behold, my melee/support AT you asked for, but my take on it. Genies have to have some fun!

 

The Guardian

Playstyle: Support/Striker

Powersets: Buff (Primary) / Melee (Secondary)

Innate: Coverage. For the Guardian to do their job effectively, they are often tasked with being in the thick of things. As such, they often need a little bit of the protection they offer to their allies. As such, when applying supportive (buff) powers to allies, the Guardian receives 50-75% effective feedback upon themselves. Additionally, as the Guardian finds herself surrounded, she receives a small max-HP boost per foe to allow her to continue performing her duties.

 

Guardian Stats (?)

Survivability: 5

Melee Damage: 7

Ranged Damage: 3

Crowd Control: 4

Support: 9

Pets: 2

 

Primary Powersets: all known except Trick Arrow.(!)

Secondary Powersets: all scrapper except titan weapon.(!)

 

Limits @ L50:

HP Base: 1204.8 (from Stalker)

HP Maximum: 2088.3 (from Stalker)

Damage Resistance: 75% (Standard)

Damage: 200% at L1, 400% at L21+ (Standard)

Defense: 97.76% at L1, 200.38% at L21+ (Scrapper/Stalker)

Regeneration: 2,100% at L1, 2,500% at L20+ (Brute / Tanker)*

Recovery: 10.42% / second (Defender)

 

Unless otherwise specified follows the “all others” standard of values. Damage and dam. resist are specified because they’re such big deals for play-style impact with Defense and others.

 

Ancillary/Patron:

The Guardian should duplicate Scrapper/Stalker for initial proliferation and patron coverage. These gave minor control and ranged abilities suitable for the purpose of ancillary sets on melee striker toons.

 

Notes:

(?)The scoring was kept close to the current distributions and has a total of 30. Support is weaker than a defender, higher than a corruptor, which is higher than other buff secondary classes. Survivability needed to take a hit to compensate for the support shield sources, mixed in with Coverage adding to that compensation. With melee at a 7, it’s the same output as a tank, but debuff sets would further provide improved numbers from baseline that aren’t immediately perceived in a straight numbers comparison.

(!)Trick Arrow applies a significant amount of “ranged assumption” in play style, includes weapon swapping/drawing and other specific abilities risk a high gimmick feel that may become problematic when centered in melee.

Similar justification to trick arrow for buffing, but also has very slow animations, slower than any other set already paired with a buff powerset from other archetypes.

*the regen rates for scrappers / stalkers is actually higher, which broke my rule of meshing defender caps with scrapper caps in balancing. Because of the supportive nature of sets like empathy and kinetics and a higher proclivity for self heals in buff sets, (should this be attempted) I recommend testing at this level first before including Guardian at those higher rates. Further, the brute is set lower, and is intended to holding agro...

 

Thoughts: there are some potentially powerful combinations that will shine on farming maps, specifically kinetics/spines, while other riskier combinations might prove counter-intuitive. Some powersets might be too powerful with the melee factor (stares at kinetics) but others would be largely ambivalent (empathy) in melee vs ranged effectiveness.

Coverage seemed odd. I wanted some way for buff powersets that gave shields to shore up the weakness that ST buffs have re: source, but there are fewer powersets that have this than ones that do. Also, there needed to be other ways of benefiting from being in melee without defenses, which led to the HP buff aspect. It’s a start...

 

another option would be to  meele primairy/buffing and debuffing secondary

 

one way to change things would be to remove some of the powers in sets that have def/res shields, and replace them with self based toggles to act as a pseudo defensive set, obviously it would have the smallest values for def/res

 

i would suggest power removal could be done on those sets, to first remove any offensive powers from the buff sets, so all the offense comes from the primary set, and the secondary set is buffing, or debuffing only

 

 

perhaps it could otherwise be done by essentially combining powers from the armor and buff/debuff sets to make another set such as regeneration mixing with poison

 

could work as a sort of, off support i suppose, no idea for inherent tho, bonus for people with at least 1 buff on them? of some kind