Overwhelming Force KB to KD not working in PB Dawn Strike

[Wavicle]

The Overwhelming Force Damage/Chance for Knockback/Knockback to Knockdown enhancement is not correctly turning the Knockback of my lvl 33 Peacebringer's Dawn Strike into Knockdown.

I'm using an Attuned piece purchased from the AH.

The Sudden Acceleration KB to KD DOES work in Dawn Strike, and BOTH the SA and the OF pieces work in my OTHER KB attacks. Only Dawn Strike with OF doesn't work.

[ZorkNemesis]

More than likely what you are seeing is the Overwhelming Force's own KB proc in tandem with Dawn Strike's KB.  OF does convert KB to KD, however it also adds a additional KD proc as well.  What ends up happening is that the KD magnitudes stack and the resulting KB magnitude is greater than KD, resulting in launching foes when you don't want to.  Assuming OF also follows the PPM rules, the KB proc would fire pretty much every time on Dawn Strike.  This is by design with OF, as the enhancement had a flair for the dramatic...

 

I find OF is more useful in a move that doesn't already have KB.  Bright Nova Scatter would be my recommendation if you're running tri-form.

[Wavicle]

12 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

More than likely what you are seeing is the Overwhelming Force's own KB proc in tandem with Dawn Strike's KB.  OF does convert KB to KD, however it also adds a additional KD proc as well.  What ends up happening is that the KD magnitudes stack and the resulting KB magnitude is greater than KD, resulting in launching foes when you don't want to.  Assuming OF also follows the PPM rules, the KB proc would fire pretty much every time on Dawn Strike.  This is by design with OF, as the enhancement had a flair for the dramatic...

 

I find OF is more useful in a move that doesn't already have KB.  Bright Nova Scatter would be my recommendation if you're running tri-form.

No, Dawn Strike with the OF proc consistently knocks back EVERY time on EVERY mob.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Wavicle

[Wavicle]

I'm not interested in the set, just the anti-knockback.

[ZorkNemesis]

21 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

No, Dawn Strike with the OF proc consistently knocks back EVERY time on EVERY mob.

That's what I was saying.  OF's KD proc is stacking with Dawn Strike's KD, resulting in unwanted KB (applying more than 0.67 mag KB at once).  That's what OF's enhancement does if the power you out it in already has a chance to KB and OF's own chance to KD procs too.

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, ZorkNemesis said:

That's what I was saying.  OF's KD proc is stacking with Dawn Strike's KD, resulting in unwanted KB (applying more than 0.67 mag KB at once).  That's what OF's enhancement does if the power you out it in already has a chance to KB and OF's own chance to KD procs too.

I put the OF Proc in Solar Flare AND in Photon Seekers, both of which also have high kB chances and it correctly turns them into KD. Only Dawn Strike displays the behavior in question. Also on my Energy Blaster the OF Proc works correctly in all attacks. I understand what you’re saying, but it does not explain the behavior.

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I put the OF Proc in Solar Flare AND in Photon Seekers, both of which also have high kB chances and it correctly turns them into KD. Only Dawn Strike displays the behavior in question. Also on my Energy Blaster the OF Proc works correctly in all attacks. I understand what you’re saying, but it does not explain the behavior.

No, unfortunately I believe it still does.

 

The Overwhelming Force Unique and the Sudden Acceleration conversion IO are both doing the exact same thing in regards to KB > KD, but the problem with OF proc is that secondary effect of stacking additional KD. The Magnitude on Dawn Strike is enormous at nearly 19pts, it really wants to push things away, unfortunately when you put either of the above enhancements in there's a maximum percentage it drops the mag down to which looks to be .27, and then the OF proc is going off at the same time, instantly stacking into enough total mag to inflict actual KB (0.94 I believe). As I remember this is the same thing that happens with Nova and why it must be a SA: KB>KD instead of the OF.

 

You end up with this:

 

Solar Flare and Proton Seekers have a much lower mag value, and when converted it's a blip of .06 and .07, even with the proc's stacked effect it's still low enough to only be KD.

 

[Wavicle]

That is so weird.

Ok, well thank you @Sir Myshkin for the detailed explanation, and sorry @ZorkNemesis if I came across as argumentative, I was just really confused.

 

I went and checked my energy blaster and it turns out there I have it slotted in explosive blast, not nova, and now I don't even remember if I ever had it in nova.

 

Now I have OF in photon seekers and SA in dawn strike, so there's my workaround. Thank you both for the help.

[Sir Myshkin]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I went and checked my energy blaster and it turns out there I have it slotted in explosive blast, not nova, and now I don't even remember if I ever had it in nova.

Small aside, OF in Explosive Blast is actually the best power in Energy Blast to put that proc into specifically because it has that secondary proc effect. Explosive's KB chance is only 35%, tossing the OF in there ups the odds of getting a successful KD sweep if it's a 10+ spawn making the power a lot stronger from a crowd-control perspective. 😃

[ZorkNemesis]

3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Small aside, OF in Explosive Blast is actually the best power in Energy Blast to put that proc into specifically because it has that secondary proc effect. Explosive's KB chance is only 35%, tossing the OF in there ups the odds of getting a successful KD sweep if it's a 10+ spawn making the power a lot stronger from a crowd-control perspective. 😃

Damn, advocating for Explosive Blast.  And i'm over here with my i4 flashbacks of being disowned from all my teams just for having it.  The times certainly have changed.

 

How much magnitude does the OF proc have?  I always thought that any KB>KDs just set the magnitude to 0.67, which is the threshold for knockdown if I recall.  I always try to avoid putting OF into any KB powers because this is how I thought it worked, but if its reducing by a percent rather than to a fixed value, i'm now wondering where it would still negate KB even if the proc and KD were to stack.

[Sir Myshkin]

20 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

How much magnitude does the OF proc have?  I always thought that any KB>KDs just set the magnitude to 0.67, which is the threshold for knockdown if I recall.  I always try to avoid putting OF into any KB powers because this is how I thought it worked, but if its reducing by a percent rather than to a fixed value, i'm now wondering where it would still negate KB even if the proc and KD were to stack.

My guess is probably in part to general enhancement in a power having the IO's convert based off a super-ridiculous percentage was the simpler (easier) method. If someone put KB enhancements into the power and all the IO conversion did was scale it to .67, the additional enhancement may conflict/stack and move it back up. Having it the other way means none of that matters because (on its own) it'll never exceed .67 magnitude. The proc effect from Overwhelming Force however is--to the best of my knowledge--set at .67 magnitude as a one-off separate effect. Because they are two individual abilities contained in the same IO, there really isn't an alt-function that's likely going to prevent the effect that's occurring. It's much simpler to just use the Sudden Acceleration in the big-bang AoE's.