Returning Mastermind Questions

[Verix]

Once upon a time I played CoV and had many nice adventures with stompy robots as a robot/dark MM.  I don't remember when I played but I know there is stuff in the game that was not there before.

 

Reading through all the pages it seems like everyone says Thugs is the go to power. Would Thugs/Dark be something worth considering?

 

And while I have very fond memories of the game I seem to have forgotten that planning your character is incredibly important and difficult for someone who has not thought about the game in over 10 years.  Any thoughts or input would be welcome. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Verix

[tidge]

I have no direct experience with Thugs, but I suspect that Gang War is probably the primary power that moves it to a top-tier primary.

 

The Robots are 'tanky', and Dark almost certainly is one of the better choices for 'Tankerminds' where you put the henchmen in 'Bodyguard' mode and keep the aggro on yourself. The Dark T1 heal should keep the henchmen alive for standard content.

 

Homecoming is very generous with 'respecs', and I encourage new players to try different choices, especially while leveling.

 

As far as picking enhancements to go into powers: Every T1 pet benefits from adding an "Overwhelming Force: Chance for Knockdown" piece, as it adds a soft control. If you stick with 'bots, they all do knockback anyway, so you may want to consider another piece (Sudden Acceleration) that converts all knockback to knockdown. The Overwhelming Force piece is unique, but the Sudden Acceleration piece is not.

[StrikerFox]

Dark is a secondary that will work well with any primary. It has all the tools to help keep pets/teammates alive. A strong heal (Twilight Grasp), massive AoE resist debuff (Tar Patch), 2 big -tohit debuff (Darkest Night/Fearsome Stare), a big AoE damage debuff (Darkest Night), an AoE rez/stun (Howling Twilight), an additional pet that heals/debuffs (Dark Servant), AoE +def and resist to E/N/P (Shadow Fall). Plus a decent ST hold (Petrifying Gaze). The only outlying power that I haven't found much use for is Black Hole. I think Dark would still perform great built on SOs.

I would build for recharge to use Tar Patch, Howling Twilight and Gang War as often as possible. Pet defense should be at around +50% AoE def and +35% to melee/ranged/all types. So one cast of Darkest Night or Fearsome Stare will put all pets at softcap equivalent. Pet defense tally:

+17% - Enforcer's Maneuvers x2 (+8.5% each Enforcer)
+5% - Shadow Fall (Moderately slotted)
+4% - Maneuvers (Moderately slotted)
+5% - Edict unique IO
+5% - Call to Arms unique IO
+15% AoE - Superior Command of the Mastermind unique IO

As for pet IOs, I'm a fan of frankenslotting pets to try increase their survivability and damage potential. Thugs:

 

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Bots:

 

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2 hours ago, tidge said:

As far as picking enhancements to go into powers: Every T1 pet benefits from adding an "Overwhelming Force: Chance for Knockdown" piece, as it adds a soft control. If you stick with 'bots, they all do knockback anyway, so you may want to consider another piece (Sudden Acceleration) that converts all knockback to knockdown. The Overwhelming Force piece is unique, but the Sudden Acceleration piece is not.

Overwhelming Force is prefered over Sudden Acceleration on T1 pets. OF will give all attacks a chance to KD their target, while SA will only convert Heavy Beam Laser from KB to KD. Brawl, Laser Burst and Full Auto Laser can't KD without OF slotted.

[tidge]

2 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Overwhelming Force is prefered over Sudden Acceleration on T1 pets. OF will give all attacks a chance to KD their target, while SA will only convert Heavy Beam Laser from KB to KD. Brawl, Laser Burst and Full Auto Laser can't KD without OF slotted.

Preferred, unless you are using the Overwhelming Force piece in another AoE power that doesn't usually do Knockback. My Bots/Traps MM uses the Overwhelming Force piece in Photon Grenade (along with a -Resistance piece) to further keep enemies in areas where they will be taking AoE damage.

 

Mastermind attacks are terrible at damage, but they can be leveraged for (soft) controls and debuffs. I have found that the Robots tear through opponents quickest when the enemies are all 'stuck' in one place.

[StrikerFox]

51 minutes ago, tidge said:

Preferred, unless you are using the Overwhelming Force piece in another AoE power that doesn't usually do Knockback. My Bots/Traps MM uses the Overwhelming Force piece in Photon Grenade (along with a -Resistance piece) to further keep enemies in areas where they will be taking AoE damage.

 

Mastermind attacks are terrible at damage, but they can be leveraged for (soft) controls and debuffs. I have found that the Robots tear through opponents quickest when the enemies are all 'stuck' in one place.

In this scenario, I would use Ragnarok's KD chance IO in Photon Grenade and keep OF in Drones. If you don't need the IO set bonus, I would frankenslot PG with:

 

Accuracy and Endurance.

Ragnarok KD chance IO
Superior Frozen Blast chance to Immobilize
Annihilation chance for Resist Debuff
Absolute Amazement chance for -tohit debuff

 

That's a pretty cool power that I never really looked at. An AoE stun and can be slotted to KD, immob, apply -resist and -tohit debuffs. Winner winner, Rikti dinner!

[Verix]

I should mention that I did not play casually before. I spent a loooooong time researching what to build before I ever made it in game. My robot dark build was very powerful and sent most content packing on max difficulty.  I had no direct attacks previously because I knew how crap they were. I remember some things like bosses need two hold effects.... but there is a wealth of information I forgot.

 

I might come back to the robots and dark but I think I might have to give thugs and time a chance.  Overall looking at time's powers it looks like there is more control over when certain things can be triggered.

 

Plus *oh no* there is no option for me to take group rez /wink.

 

 

One of the things I am not 100% sure about things I am reading in the MM thread are the terms muling and frankenslotting. Could someone explain? It is likely something I remember but didn't have a name for or called something else.

 

 

Another simple but important question : Do the Origin powers have any use later on or they something you can just forget/ignore completely?  I would hate to lose out on even a small advantage (yes I am that kind of player /sorry./notsorry).

Edited November 23, 2020 by Verix

[Chaos String]

1 hour ago, Verix said:

I might have to give thugs and time a chance.

I can confirm Thugs/Time is awesome.

1 hour ago, Verix said:

muling and frankenslotting.

Muling is putting enhancements into a power just for the set bonuses even though you might never use the power itself.  For example, sometimes people will slot Boxing or Brawl with 4 Kinetic Combat for the S/L defense bonus.  Then those unused powers are referred to as "set mules."

 

Frankenslotting is when you slot a power not with a full IO set, but a bunch of different enhancements or partial sets.  This can be useful for maximizing enhancement values, and/or packing procs into a power.  It is often highly effective for MMs to frankenslot their summons.

1 hour ago, Verix said:

Do the Origin powers have any use later on or they something you can just forget/ignore completely?

Forget/Ignore.  They don't matter.  In some fringe cases they could in theory make a difference.  For example, the magic and tech origin powers could theoretically be useful for lighting Oil Slick Arrow, since they deal energy damage, and it's possible you might not have any other source of fire or energy damage in your build.   But in 99.9% of cases, those powers are irrelevant past single-digit levels.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, Verix said:

One of the things I am not 100% sure about things I am reading in the MM thread are the terms muling and frankenslotting. Could someone explain? It is likely something I remember but didn't have a name for or called something else.

Muling is generally used to indicate a power/slot choice of an IO piece that will give you a bonus (usually Global). For example, there are plenty of pool powers that take Defense IOs, and folks will often take a power, invest no slots in that power, and simple add a piece like the Luck of the Gambler Defense/Global +Recharge to it. You don't have to activate the power to get the global bonus. The "Mule" is simply carrying the IO. It is possible to add more slots to powers  just to carry more Global pieces; I still consider this muling. (see @Chaos Stringpoint above about muling with a set bonus)

 

Franken-slotting is the term used when a power is equipped with multiple slots but the slots are filled with different kinds of IO pieces from different sets. Usually this is done because adding %damage procs to certain powers can increase the amount of damage done, depending on the AT (Masterminds themselves are a low damage scale AT, so the %damage procs contribute more on their attacks) and the proc chance. Crudely: Longer recharge powers with more targets have the best chance to proc; toggles are generally the worse place for procs. %Debuff and %control procs are similar

 

A common power that uses Franken-slotting but not for %damage (or %control, or %debuff%) is Mind Link / Link Minds. This is a power worth having as much recharge as possible, but it ONLY can have boosted Recharge from ToHit sets. This makes it worthwhile to frankenslot with both Adjusted Targeting (Recharge) and Luck of the Gambler (Def/Recharge and Def/Global Recharge).

Edited November 23, 2020 by tidge

[pyrocumulus]

You probably know the concept but not the community name of Frankenslotting.

 

Say you wanted to enhance Call Thugs' attack and damage, and you put 6 slots into it.

 

3 Accuracy and 3 Damage SOs, level 50

+94.3% Accuracy, +94.3% Damage

 

3 Accuracy and 3 damage Common IOs, level 50

+99.08% Accuracy, +99.08% Damage

 

Edict of the Master: Acc/Dam, Blood Mandate: Acc/Dam, Sovereign Right: Acc/Dam, Call to Arms: Acc/Dam

+94.21% Accuracy, +94.21% Damage

...for the opportunity cost of four slots not six. You can now use the remaining slots to chase any (2) or (3) set bonus from one of those sets, add procs or globals, enhance different things (e.g. endurance), or save the slots to use elsewhere in your build.

 

Frankenslotting is a particularly powerful leveling build tool, as you can get bigger enhancement values when your build is still short of slots.

 

5 hours ago, Verix said:

Another simple but important question : Do the Origin powers have any use later on or they something you can just forget/ignore completely?  I would hate to lose out on even a small advantage (yes I am that kind of player /sorry./notsorry).

Homecoming allows you to change them out if you want, so if your Technology character would be the sort of person to use Throwing Knives, you can. They have no real use past level 5 or so outside of being thematic.

 

 

[TheSpiritFox]

Thugs are solid with Dark, demons are better overall. Tankier, resistance stacks with resistance. 

 

Thugs do best with cold, traps, and time overall if you're looking for a strong contender. Time is the tankiest, traps does the most damage, cold is a decent middle ground with cool visuals. 

[Verix]

So really for now I can just ignore the frankenstein build , get up to 50 and then worry about it later.

 

I didn't see a leveling build for thugs/time so I was kind of winging it.  I didn't get either of my thug attack powers knowing that they wouldn't really help for damage and that I couldn't properly slot them to do things like frankenstein until later.

 

Another question in a different direction :

 

Once upon a time I know I had a macro for my pets to attack and then I swapped them to defense immediately as part of the macro. Is that still useful or is there a better idea?

[Nexros]

With enforcer's aoe +def and the -tohit combination, this is very a tanky MM. I would try putting your efforts into DPS since the primary and secondary on this build is going to naturally bring you to a softcapped defense (def and tohit combined) with even moderate enhances or SOs, as @StrikerFox pointed out. You will have no problem surviving +4/8 content in end game, so you should have lots of room to focus on damage.

 

Personally, I wouldn't take leadership maneuvers with this as you will already be hitting 5-10% chance to be hit,... Perhaps go for +damage like in the experimentation pool, or go for (dare I say it?) direct damage from a patron/ancillary pool.

 

I prefer the magic origin power. It has a decent -res making it helpful early on, but also useful at 50+.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Nexros

[brasilgringo]

There was a pretty awesome Thugs/Storm build bandied about the boards (give it a search).  One neat thing about Thugs is Gang War is one power that really gets mileage out of Burnout, if you want to do something different (moreso with Storm).