Sonic Resonance fix idea

[Wavicle]

Fairly simple idea for how to make Sonic Resonance a little better and in particular how to fix Sonic Cage:

Sonic Cage becomes Single Target Foe -Res, -Spd, and applies the "Sonic Cage" effect for 30 seconds. Moved to tier 1 spot.

 

Sonic Siphon becomes Single Target Foe -Spd, -Rech for 30 seconds and Self +Regen, +Recovery, fairly strong effects, but only 5 or 10 seconds. If the target has the "Sonic Cage" effect on them the +Regen and Recovery effects become PBAoE Ally effects. Moved to tier  4 spot.

 

That's it.

[arcane]

Cottage rule says can’t do it.

[Wavicle]

Just now, arcane said:

Cottage rule says can’t do it.

I don't think so. You're still putting them in a cage, it's just a different kind of cage. People misunderstand the cottage rule, I think.

[VinceBlood]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Cottage rule says can’t do it.

 

Can you elaborate on this?

[Wavicle]

But if people thought it made more sense to use Immob instead of -Spd, I could go for that.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, VinceBlood said:

 

Can you elaborate on this?

 

I understand the point he's making. Changing the names of the powers in question is the way around the cottage rule. And it should be noted, it's a guideline, not a rule.
 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Cottage_Rule

An existing power will not have its core functionality and purpose changed, though its strength may be altered and effects secondary to the power's true purpose may be added or removed.

[Wavicle]

The problem is that the core functionality and purpose of Sonic Cage, currently, is practically speaking nothing.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

I don't think so. You're still putting them in a cage, it's just a different kind of cage. People misunderstand the cottage rule, I think.

The cottage rules means you can’t change the core functionality of a power, only tweak it or add to it. In cases where a primary effect has been deleted outright, it has been added elsewhere in the set - like Acid Arrow’s -res or Afterburner moving into Fly.

 

TL;DR you can change a lot of things but you can’t get rid of sonic having a targeted foe intangibility power.

[VinceBlood]

Just now, Wavicle said:

 

I understand the point he's making. Changing the names of the powers in question is the way around the cottage rule. And it should be noted, it's a guideline, not a rule.
 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Cottage_Rule

An existing power will not have its core functionality and purpose changed, though its strength may be altered and effects secondary to the power's true purpose may be added or removed.

 

Right, I had to look it up again.  But that's part of why I asked for elaboration - this was how many years ago, and under different "management?"  I get that we shouldn't change powers left and right, but the cottage rule seems archaic now.  Improvements should take precedence over old and outdated things.  Making a set better and more attractive for use should never be shut down so easily.

[Alchemystic]

Cottage rule is moot.

 

Castle isn't part of Homecoming, hell, he wasn't even part of Paragon Studios in the later years.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

The cottage rules means you can’t change the core functionality of a power, only tweak it or add to it. In cases where a primary effect has been deleted outright, it has been added elsewhere in the set - like Acid Arrow’s -res or Afterburner moving into Fly.

 

TL;DR you can change a lot of things but you can’t get rid of sonic having a targeted foe intangibility power.

 

Well, leaving aside the discussion of whether or not the cottage rule is still a thing...

How about this:

If you use Sonic Siphon on the Sonic Caged mob it gives Regen and Recovery to the team? Apart from that, the powers don't change.

[arcane]

The cottage rule isn’t arbitrary. It exists because of the fact that there is not one power in this game that nobody likes. So I’m ok with continuing to apply it and think that philosophy has gone well so far.

[arcane]

Just now, Wavicle said:

 

Well, leaving aside the discussion of whether or not the cottage rule is still a thing...

How about this:

If you use Sonic Siphon on the Sonic Caged mob it gives Regen and Recovery to the team? Apart from that, the powers don't change.

That would be in keeping with the cottage rule, yes. Or put a debuff aura around the foe or do something else cool entirely. They managed to make it appealing with Dimension Shift.

[VinceBlood]

Just now, arcane said:

The cottage rule isn’t arbitrary. It exists because of the fact that there is not one power in this game that nobody likes. So I’m ok with continuing to apply it and think that philosophy has gone well so far.

 

I can respect that, but foe intangibility powers tend to lean heavily on the side of "don't."  Anything that holds up a team, or restricts gameplay in such a manner, seems pretty widely frowned upon and always has.  Maybe for solo play or very specific group situations, but I can't think of a whole lot of times where making a foe completely untouchable was widely desired.  In addition to that, Sonic Resonance does feel like it lags behind other, newer sets and could use a boost.

[Wavicle]

Did they? I still don't take DS and rarely see it used. And they didn't apply it to Black Hole. 😞

[arcane]

For reference Sonic Cage used to be FotM in PvP pre-i13. Just a supplemental factoid.

 

And no I’m not saying Sonic doesn’t need a facelift. Cover Sonic Attack with that too though would ya. And I hope Force Field goes without saying.

Edited March 21, 2021 by arcane

[Wavicle]

in pvp...ok, but the set, and the power in particular, need help in pve

[Wavicle]

Ok. I see the problem.

So, a different approach.


Sonic Cage becomes a toggle, you can turn it off when you like. Perhaps has limited duration, probably 30 seconds max I guess?

 

 

Add the team +Regen, +Recovery effects to Sonic Siphon, but weaker since they will be up all the time.

 

 

I guess that should do it.

[Greycat]

 

The toggle idea? That works. (And has been proposed in the past. I wouldn't mind.)

 

Though, leave them where they are. Siphon doesn't need changing. I wouldn't argue with the boost, especially early on.

[zenblack]

10 hours ago, arcane said:

The cottage rules means you can’t change the core functionality of a power, only tweak it or add to it. In cases where a primary effect has been deleted outright, it has been added elsewhere in the set - like Acid Arrow’s -res or Afterburner moving into Fly.

 

TL;DR you can change a lot of things but you can’t get rid of sonic having a targeted foe intangibility power.

 

And the cottage rule was broken whenever the original Devs of CoH wanted to.

[arcane]

4 hours ago, zenblack said:

 

And the cottage rule was broken whenever the original Devs of CoH wanted to.

Examples?

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Examples?

 

 

All Snipe powers, most of the Pool Powers and Blaster Secondaries, as well as a handful of other powers like Repulse, Dimension Shift and Total Focus.

 

Now, if you want examples of how Homecoming has broken the cottage rule; pretty much ALL pool powers are getting a revamp, as well as some bigger changes to melee, armor and manipulation sets, all of which dont adhere to the cottage rule.

 

And if that wasn't enough, there's so much discussion about changing powers like Serum and Twilight Grasp, or entire powersets like Regeneration and Stone Armor, or even broad mechanics like sleep and confuse.

 

The cottage rule is ancient history, and I wouldn't put too much stock in Castle either, most of the new powersets came before or after his time with Paragon Studios... food for thought.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Tyrannical

[arcane]

Those powers all changed, but I don’t think a single one of them had a core functionality removed from the set entirely, which is the cottage rule in practice based on my interpretation. I don’t see how any HC changes have done that either really. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by arcane

[Grouchybeast]

38 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

The cottage rule is ancient history, and I wouldn't put too much stock in Castle either, most of the new powersets came before or after his time with Paragon Studios... food for thought.

 

Nonsense!  You can't just go around treating The Cottage Rule like it was some off-the-cuff remark made by a dev who left Paragon two years before shutdown.  The HC devs should email Castle and double-check with him every time they want to change anything at all about a power.  I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

[arcane]

39 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

Nonsense!  You can't just go around treating The Cottage Rule like it was some off-the-cuff remark made by a dev who left Paragon two years before shutdown.  The HC devs should email Castle and double-check with him every time they want to change anything at all about a power.  I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

Make no mistake, I am invoking the rule as I interpret it because I think it’s a good rule, not as an appeal to authority.