Changes in Pet Proccing Behavior Within i27 Page 1 and 2

[Monos King]

This is an observation I've made between the behavior of procs pre and post the Mastermind Summon Time reductions of the recent update - notably, activation of procs on the caster. While the update was an incredible godsend portending great changes to MMs, its wake has resulted in some disruptive bugs regarding procs from the list below:

 

Call of the Sandman

Entomb

Superior Entomb

Force Feedback

Theft of Essence

Analyze Weakness

Siphon Insight

 

Prior to this installment, all of these procs would activate on the Player (and interestingly not the pet) upon the summoning of Henchmen such as the Demon Prince, Oni, Jounin, and Lich. This meant that if I activated the 'Lich' power with Superior Entomb slotted, I would receive the +absorb buff upon the successful summon...however the Lich would not. This is partially the same behavior as Soulbound Allegiance once did, where the caster would receive the Boost Up proc - the main difference here that in the case of Soulbound the slotted pets proceeding moves would actually proc the Boost Up proc, and not just the initial summoning itself. Thanks to @Bopper we seem to have discovered the source of the pets inability to trigger these procs. As seen below, all of these procs are given a potentially intentional check for if the entity is a player:

 

Meaning that pets, like henchmen, could never proc them. This is an excellent find, however not the main issue at hand.

 

As of right now, the procs of this list:

1. Do not trigger on the player summoner
2. Do not trigger on the players pet

And thus have no function. Slotting them into your pets will mean that neither the pet NOR the user will receive any benefit at all. Mastermind and controller users that used their eligible summons as a place for helpful utility procs currently find the slot wasted, and their performance lowered. Those of us that deliberately exchanged pet dmg for extra personal survival are currently incapable of enjoying this trade-off in a performance decrease similar to when Soulbound was removed from affecting the caster for MMs and Storm users. The Force Feedback proc is currently most notably useless, as even if that proc had worked on pets, pets cannot benefit from recharge bonuses. The rest have similar survival related issues.

 

It is because of these disruptions that I believe this bug is of rather high priority. The first thing I believe should be done is the removal of the shown "if source is player" proc requirement, which we believe prevents pets from triggering these procs on themselves. After that, the proc-on-summon which offers the player these procs upon activation of powers (such as Lich, Demon Prince, Oni) would also be great to see re-instated.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Monos King
Clarity

[Monos King]

Thread revamped for additional clarity.

 

[ScarySai]

I can't comment too much on this as I don't proc my MMs and such that much anymore, but I will say that the soulbound proc change to this day remains a very shortsighted and generally bad change.

 

It was intended to proc on both the player and the pet it was slotted in. Why would you put it in something like tornado, otherwise?

[Ariamaki]

These should all definitely be working across both player and pet, definitely an annoying oddity.

[Emperor Cole]

Ugh, those were my favorite to use...

[Crysis]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:52 PM, Monos King said:

This is an observation I've made between the behavior of procs pre and post the Mastermind Summon Time reductions of the recent update - notably, activation of procs on the caster. While the update was an incredible godsend portending great changes to MMs, its wake has resulted in some disruptive bugs regarding procs from the list below:

 

Call of the Sandman

Entomb

Superior Entomb

Force Feedback

Theft of Essence

Analyze Weakness

Siphon Insight

 

Prior to this installment, all of these procs would activate on the Player (and interestingly not the pet) upon the summoning of Henchmen such as the Demon Prince, Oni, Jounin, and Lich. This meant that if I activated the 'Lich' power with Superior Entomb slotted, I would receive the +absorb buff upon the successful summon...however the Lich would not. This is partially the same behavior as Soulbound Allegiance once did, where the caster would receive the Boost Up proc - the main difference here that in the case of Soulbound the slotted pets proceeding moves would actually proc the Boost Up proc, and not just the initial summoning itself. Thanks to @Bopper we seem to have discovered the source of the pets inability to trigger these procs. As seen below, all of these procs are given a potentially intentional check for if the entity is a player:

 

Meaning that pets, like henchmen, could never proc them. This is an excellent find, however not the main issue at hand.

 

As of right now, the procs of this list:

1. Do not trigger on the player summoner
2. Do not trigger on the players pet

And thus have no function. Slotting them into your pets will mean that neither the pet NOR the user will receive any benefit at all. Mastermind and controller users that used their eligible summons as a place for helpful utility procs currently find the slot wasted, and their performance lowered. Those of us that deliberately exchanged pet dmg for extra personal survival are currently incapable of enjoying this trade-off in a performance decrease similar to when Soulbound was removed from affecting the caster for MMs and Storm users. The Force Feedback proc is currently most notably useless, as even if that proc had worked on pets, pets cannot benefit from recharge bonuses. The rest have similar survival related issues.

 

It is because of these disruptions that I believe this bug is of rather high priority. The first thing I believe should be done is the removal of the shown "if source is player" proc requirement, which we believe prevents pets from triggering these procs on themselves. After that, the proc-on-summon which offers the player these procs upon activation of powers (such as Lich, Demon Prince, Oni) would also be great to see re-instated.

 

 

 

Just tested this....

 

On an Ill/Storm Controller, FF+Rech procs added to LS and Tornado, procs often ON ME.  I'm averaging 253-325% Recharge while they are out, allowing me triple LS as normal.

 

On an Demon/Storm MM, FF+Rech procs added to LS and Tornado, procs almost every time ON ME.  I'm averaging 242-315% Recharge while they are out, allowing me triple Tornado and double LS.

 

On a Thus/Storm MM, FF+Rech procs added to LS and Tornado, same results.

 

Those are typically the only "affects caster" procs I apply to my /Storm Controllers and MM's.  But I'm not seeing the bug you are indicating, at least not for that specific Proc?

[Carnifax]

Well I can understand it not proccing all the time with MM summons. Hasn't the recharge time been reduced dramatically?

 

As Crysis says FF is working as before on LS and Tornado for me (plant Storm)

[Crysis]

Just did a little more testing.

On my Thugs/Storm, I pulled out the Explosive Strike procs on both the Thugs and Bruiser and replaced both with FF+Rech procs.  If I throw out Tornado or LS, +Rech procs almost every time ON THOSE TWO POWERS, usually on Summon, although I think I saw LS proc once or twice after it was already out.  If I let the boys run by themselves, NO +RECH Proc.  Not on Summon, nor on play.   Tested dozens of times.

 

On my Ill/Storm, did similar test using Phantasm.  Same thing, no FF+Recharge proc on summon, nor during play.   LS, Tornado, Water Spout, etc....all other summoned 'psuedo-pets' or whatever those are, they procc'd.  Again, tested dozens of times.

 

So yes, can confirm on MM henchmen and at least on Phantasm for an Illusion Controller, there appears to be no FF+Rech procc'ing going on for anything I'd slot into them.  But since the change to Soulbound behavior, I tend to only slot damage procs into the Hechmen so wouldn't have noticed this behavior otherwise.

 

So the issue appears to be with Henchmen or Controller Pets (and maybe other pets too, haven't checked there yet), but not the summoned powers like Tornado, Waterspout, etc.

 

 

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, Crysis said:

So the issue appears to be with Henchmen or Controller Pets (and maybe other pets too, haven't checked there yet), but not the summoned powers like Tornado, Waterspout, etc.

Only self-buff procs, I.E. those from the list are failing to proc for the pets. All damage procs currently work as expected. Pseudopets such as poison trap and trip mine do properly proc-on summon and provide the caster the buff, like force feedback, although pets like Acid Mortar proc on summon but themselves aren't properly receiving proc buffs. 

 

The issue is the tag shown above that requires the target be a player,  as well as a separate "switch" telling powers like Protector Bot to not allow procs (which is why it won't trigger FF proc on you when you summon it now). This, however, was not the case until recently. 

[Monos King]

3 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Well I can understand it not proccing all the time with MM summons. Hasn't the recharge time been reduced dramatically?

 

As Crysis says FF is working as before on LS and Tornado for me (plant Storm)

 

LS and Tornado are pseudopets. This is specific to henchmen and other true pets. Interestingly though, as tornado is known to proc force feedback on the caster, it should definitely also proc soulbound. This was a manual change which makes little sense, though that's a side note.

 

Edit: Also it isn't due to lowered recharge.  I had thought maybe that was it myself, and tested it 100 times, to no avail. Dark Servant for instance still works properly, but MM henchmen do not. Upon comparing files, MM pets currently are set to not allowing procs, which they did previously. This setting refers to the summon itself, not the pets powers.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Monos King