What are your expectations for the Loki series?

[Techwright]

The idea of an overarching Time Authority is not unique to Umbrella Academy.  For example:  Star Trek: Voyager did it about 20 years before Umbrella Academy was filmed (though admittedly I don't know when the source comic book for U.A. was released.)  As to having period equipment in high tech settings, there's Firefly and Battlestar: Galactic right off the top of my head.  Doctor Who has done it often as well.

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Techwright said:

The idea of an overarching Time Authority is not unique to Umbrella Academy.  For example:  Star Trek: Voyager did it about 20 years before Umbrella Academy was filmed (though admittedly I don't know when the source comic book for U.A. was released.)  As to having period equipment in high tech settings, there's Firefly and Battlestar: Galactic right off the top of my head.  Doctor Who has done it often as well.

If anything, the time travel trope originated in Charles Dickens's novel 'A Christmas Carol' (1843). There may be earlier examples, but I am not aware of any lol

[ExoGrimz]

On 6/10/2021 at 9:35 AM, DougGraves said:

So they decided making a villain that was like an evil version of the hero was not enough, now they have the villain be an actual evil multiverse version of the hero.  That was sad.  I lost about 50% of my interest in the show.  I will still probably watch it since my daughter loves Loki.

 

It really felt like Umbrella Academy season 2 time bureau, with the black woman time tracker from season 1 thrown in.  Everything looked cool, but it felt so unoriginal having season Umbrella Academy last year.  I mean it didn't just seem like the Umbrella Academy plot.  The lighting, color, use of flashbacks, the whole feel of the show was Umbrella Academy.

 

This feels to me like a marvel Netflix show.  Really slow and drawn out.  But I felt that way about  episode 1 of Falcon and Winter Soldier and that got a lot better.  So this may just be a lame first episode.

 

And if you have not seen Umbrella Academy, this probably all seem innovative and cool.

I mean... either way Marvel still did it first, since the TVA first showed up in the comics in 1986

[Techwright]

I'm going to drop this in here.  I was surprised how detailed their analysis of the first episode was, and I feel it enriched my viewing experience, even tipping me off to a few possibilities to watch for as the series progresses.   Be aware that this may contain spoilers of future works, though of course it is currently speculative:

 

 

[DougGraves]

That was a good video.  I learned a lot.  I am eager for Kang to show up in the MCU.

[wjrasmussen]

My expectations are for a little bit of fun.

[Techwright]

Just saw episode 2 (loved it)  and I've a massive question regarding that ending...

Spoiler

Is that really female Loki, or is that The Enchantress (Amora)?  She's got the small horned crown, but she's also got blonde hair.  In Marvel Comics,  The Enchantress has a green/gold color scheme like Loki, but has blonde hair.  She alternates between ally and rival of Loki.  What artwork I've seen of female Loki keeps the black hair.   Also there's the matter that she doesn't want to use the name Loki.  

 

Now I'm wondering just how badly the TVA screwed this one up.  There's been no mention of where on the timeline the supposed evil Loki variant comes from, and ya got to wonder, considering all their power, how they didn't realize they were dealing with another being entirely (assuming it is Enchantress).

 

Also, the Time-Keeper trio is beginning to sound more like the man behind the curtain, rather than Oz the Great and Terrible.

 

That episode felt so Stephen Moffat-era Doctor Who.   Loved it.  (And now I'm wishing Tom Hiddleston eventually gets to be The Doctor.)

[Glacier Peak]

Saw the second episode...

 

Spoiler

And was fully satisfied. I found myself pulled right back in to the world even after a weeks time separating my last viewing. 

 

Some good banter, a little plot drive, dash of humor, and an ominous foreshadowing of future multiversal threats. 

 

Good stuff!

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[ExoGrimz]

Spoiler

So... ummm... pretty certain the timekeepers just died... ngl, was expecting that to happen much later into the series than episode 2 XD

 

[Techwright]

A realization today regarding the implications of episode 2's ending...

 

Spoiler

I'd been thinking of the villain as a hybrid of Lady Loki and Enchantress from the comics.  That was myopic.

 

She wears the broken-horned crown of Lady Loki, and looks like the Enchantress (Amora, an authentic Asgardian), sure.  But the credits give the character name of Sylvie, which puzzled me because I know Amora to be the Enchantress.  Now I've learned that Sylvie, in the comics is essentially Enchantress II.  I've also learned that she was a human that Loki, for his own twisted pleasure, gave Asgardian power to, and twisted her thinking to believe she was an Asgardian.   At some point, the source says, she broke free of Loki and wanted to become a hero and joined, for a short time, the Young Avengers.

 

Now that is very interesting, because the Young Avengers theme keeps popping up.  So far, to the best of my recollection, we've seen from the comics YA roster:

 

1. Wiccan & Speed (Wanda's boys)

2. Patriot (Isaiah Bradley's grandson)

3. Stature (Ant-Man's daughter)

4. Hawkeye II ?? (Clint's daughter) - this one is a guess, because in the comics it was a gal named Kate, not Lila Barton, but they did take some time to show Lila training.

5. Sylvie

 

Now I don't expect to line up YA exactly, but I can see the MCU using analogs:

1. Iron Lad - we're actually anticipating a future project with Ironheart, a young girl.

2. Hulkling - a Kree-Skrull hybrid.  I can see this playing out one of two ways:  A) Hulking is brought into play during the upcoming "Secret Wars" which involves the Skrulls.  B) She-Hulk is the analog replacement after her mini-series.

3. Black Widow II - Black Widow wasn't part of the Young Avengers, but if they consider the Young Avengers to be Avengers Mark 3 in the MCU (Mark 2 occurred at the end of "Age of Ultron"), then Black Widow II might be a part of it.  The Black Widow movie premiering in a couple of weeks was supposed to introduce the character that becomes Black Widow II last year before it got seriously bumped.

 

Additionally, I could see them adding Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) to the MCU team after her movie premiers.

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

48 minutes ago, Techwright said:

A realization today regarding the implications of episode 2's ending...

 

  Hide contents

I'd been thinking of the villain as a hybrid of Lady Loki and Enchantress from the comics.  That was myopic.

 

She wears the broken-horned crown of Lady Loki, and looks like the Enchantress (Amora, an authentic Asgardian), sure.  But the credits give the character name of Sylvie, which puzzled me because I know Amora to be the Enchantress.  Now I've learned that Sylvie, in the comics is essentially Enchantress II.  I've also learned that she was a human that Loki, for his own twisted pleasure, gave Asgardian power to, and twisted her thinking to believe she was an Asgardian.   At some point, the source says, she broke free of Loki and wanted to become a hero and joined, for a short time, the Young Avengers.

 

Now that is very interesting, because the Young Avengers theme keeps popping up.  So far, to the best of my recollection, we've seen from the comics YA roster:

 

1. Wiccan & Speed (Wanda's boys)

2. Patriot (Isaiah Bradley's grandson)

3. Stature (Ant-Man's daughter)

4. Hawkeye II ?? (Clint's daughter) - this one is a guess, because in the comics it was a gal named Kate, not Lila Barton, but they did take some time to show Lila training.

5. Sylvie

 

Now I don't expect to line up YA exactly, but I can see the MCU using analogs:

1. Iron Lad - we're actually anticipating a future project with Ironheart, a young girl.

2. Hulkling - a Kree-Skrull hybrid.  I can see this playing out one of two ways:  A) Hulking is brought into play during the upcoming "Secret Wars" which involves the Skrulls.  B) She-Hulk is the analog replacement after her mini-series.

3. Black Widow II - Black Widow wasn't part of the Young Avengers, but if they consider the Young Avengers to be Avengers Mark 3 in the MCU (Mark 2 occurred at the end of "Age of Ultron"), then Black Widow II might be a part of it.  The Black Widow movie premiering in a couple of weeks was supposed to introduce the character that becomes Black Widow II last year before it got seriously bumped.

 

Additionally, I could see them adding Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) to the MCU team after her movie premiers.

 

 

Damn these are some deep thoughts!

[ZacKing]

Spoiler

Enchantress is definitely a strong candidate IMO given how she seems to "enchant" people to take control of them.  Liking the series so far.

 

[Glacier Peak]

The third episode...

 

Spoiler

...was a little bit boring, if I am being honest. Obviously it was necessary to develop the character of Sylvie and for the audience to understand her motivations a little more, but there were too many scenes where both characters would just stare off in to the distance with no dialogue. Definitely a filler episode in my eyes. 

 

We did learn that Sylvie enchants, has a grudge against the TVA, and that she knows that the TVA agents/workers are variants themselves. So there is some plot movement! 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Techwright]

8 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

The third episode...

 

  Hide contents

...was a little bit boring, if I am being honest. Obviously it was necessary to develop the character of Sylvie and for the audience to understand her motivations a little more, but there were too many scenes where both characters would just stare off in to the distance with no dialogue. Definitely a filler episode in my eyes. 

 

We did learn that Sylvie enchants, has a grudge against the TVA, and that she knows that the TVA agents/workers are variants themselves. So there is some plot movement! 

 

 

Responding and adding to that...

Spoiler

I enjoyed the episode, as it went in directions I never foresaw.  I liked that it was set on a planet we've never seen in the MCU before (and possibly will never see again).  That said, I do think there were a few odd moments that I didn't understand why they were dragged out, like Loki singing in Asgardian.  We actually already knew Sylvie enchants from the previous episode, however, we did learn something about the in-story rules for enchantment.  If anything, I was surprised to realize that here was a green magic that Loki had never learned, possibly never encountered.  The TVA agents as variants I suspected since the beginning, but it was good to get confirmation.  (I may be wrong, but I'm highly suspicious that the other agent R. Slayer favors is another variant of Mobius M. Mobius, perhaps several variants, and that she keeps them apart for obvious reasons.  It might explain the table with more coffee mug rings than he remembers.)

 

One thing that's frustrating me right now:  Loki is not asking probing questions into why Sylvie doesn't want to be called Loki.  For that matter, he's not asking questions as to who her mother was.  I suspect the writers of being deliberately cagey in hopes of continuously keeping up an illusion that Sylvie is a Loki variant, when in reality, she might be something else, possibly closer to a variant on the comic book Sylvie. (She does, at least, admit she's a variant.)

 

One other thing:  there was that last "dark moon" song with all those vignettes of the TVA, ending on the face of the middle Time Keeper.  This show keeps going back to the middle one.  Others elsewhere have pointed out that statues of him have him in a different posture than the other.  Is he the "man behind the curtain" more than the others?  Are there even others, or are they just a lie?  I also get the impression that judge R. Slayer knows more about the truth than she lets on.

 

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, Techwright said:

 

Responding and adding to that...

  Hide contents

I enjoyed the episode, as it went in directions I never foresaw.  I liked that it was set on a planet we've never seen in the MCU before (and possibly will never see again).  That said, I do think there were a few odd moments that I didn't understand why they were dragged out, like Loki singing in Asgardian.  We actually already knew Sylvie enchants from the previous episode, however, we did learn something about the in-story rules for enchantment.  If anything, I was surprised to realize that here was a green magic that Loki had never learned, possibly never encountered.  The TVA agents as variants I suspected since the beginning, but it was good to get confirmation.  (I may be wrong, but I'm highly suspicious that the other agent R. Slayer favors is another variant of Mobius M. Mobius, perhaps several variants, and that she keeps them apart for obvious reasons.  It might explain the table with more coffee mug rings than he remembers.)

 

One thing that's frustrating me right now:  Loki is not asking probing questions into why Sylvie doesn't want to be called Loki.  For that matter, he's not asking questions as to who her mother was.  I suspect the writers of being deliberately cagey in hopes of continuously keeping up an illusion that Sylvie is a Loki variant, when in reality, she might be something else, possibly closer to a variant on the comic book Sylvie. (She does, at least, admit she's a variant.)

 

One other thing:  there was that last "dark moon" song with all those vignettes of the TVA, ending on the face of the middle Time Keeper.  This show keeps going back to the middle one.  Others elsewhere have pointed out that statues of him have him in a different posture than the other.  Is he the "man behind the curtain" more than the others?  Are there even others, or are they just a lie?  I also get the impression that judge R. Slayer knows more about the truth than she lets on.

 

@Techwright always bringing the deep cuts! I think I'd rather just read your write up than watch the show 😁

 

Spoiler

Totally agree on the direction - it was necessary to establish the character(s) - but I will imagine how it is going to play out..... based on the 'mcguffin', the temporal remote device, Loki is probably using an illusion to make it look broke, in order to get more background on Sylvie/what her powers are. Loki signing was a way for Loki to get Slyvie to think he was being nonchalant about their mission, to get her to let her guard down. 

 

The TVA agents reveal was not something I foresaw, so good on you! 

 

As for the long gaming of the plot, yeah I think since there will be two season of the show, they can drag out these types of points. I was actually disappointed that Mobius wasn't in this episode - I really enjoyed his no-nonsense character.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Techwright]

27 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

@Techwright always bringing the deep cuts! I think I'd rather just read your write up than watch the show 😁

 

  Hide contents

Totally agree on the direction - it was necessary to establish the character(s) - but I will imagine how it is going to play out..... based on the 'mcguffin', the temporal remote device, Loki is probably using an illusion to make it look broke, in order to get more background on Sylvie/what her powers are. Loki signing was a way for Loki to get Slyvie to think he was being nonchalant about their mission, to get her to let her guard down. 

 

The TVA agents reveal was not something I foresaw, so good on you! 

 

As for the long gaming of the plot, yeah I think since there will be two season of the show, they can drag out these types of points. I was actually disappointed that Mobius wasn't in this episode - I really enjoyed his no-nonsense character.

 

 

I do need to correct something...

Spoiler

I rewatched parts, and Sylvie does say something like "I don't go by that name anymore" in regards to "Loki".  So she may indeed be a true Loki variant.  That said,  I think I mentioned before that in the comics Loki created Sylvie from an ordinary human, and made her think she was an Asgardian.  Also in the comics the Asgardians have the ability to possess humans, so...and it's a long shot I'll admit...it might be that there is a variant Loki, but that he exists inside Sylvie.  Might be more complicated than they want to get on an already complex time travel show, though.

 

 

 

[DougGraves]

I enjoyed episode 3, it was entertaining and reasonably fast paced.  But when it ended I felt like very little had happened and was surprised it was over.

 

So I don't know if that is because it is so good the time flew by or because very little of substance actually happened.

[wjrasmussen]

14 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

I enjoyed episode 3, it was entertaining and reasonably fast paced.  But when it ended I felt like very little had happened and was surprised it was over.

 

So I don't know if that is because it is so good the time flew by or because very little of substance actually happened.

I think it will be the only one I won't rewatch for a long time.

[Techwright]

51 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

I enjoyed episode 3, it was entertaining and reasonably fast paced.  But when it ended I felt like very little had happened and was surprised it was over.

 

So I don't know if that is because it is so good the time flew by or because very little of substance actually happened.

 

If I may suggest, I suspect a lot more happened that episode than we were led to believe.  I suspect reveals in the future episodes may have us wheeling back to #3 to see the moments we missed something important.

 

For example:

Spoiler

Have we ever seen Loki demonstrate telekinetics on a level capable of reversing a falling building?  Or using damaging magic blasts?  Why is that, I wonder?  You'd think those would have been very handy when fighting the battle of New York just a few days before, from his perspective.  Even Sacred Timeline Loki didn't use them when up against Thanos or Dr. Strange.  I suppose it is possible that Varient Loki TOTALly failed to RECALL that he had those abilities until just now.

 

[Techwright]

Had an interesting discussion with a coworker who has a review YouTube channel and is following the Loki series.  We had a crazy idea that I'll explain, but it's based in a scene from Endgame, so let me post that first as a refresher:

 

 

Now with that refresher, let me post our thought:

Spoiler

The Ancient One said, "The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time.  Remove one of the stones, and that flow splits.  Now this may benefit your reality, but my new one not so much."  She gave an excellent visual that looks much like what was appearing on the monitors of the TVA.

 

Now let me direct you to a picture from Loki:

There's a writing concept I'm guessing several of you know, called "Chekhov's Gun".  Click the link if you need to know more.  Basically, it says if you call attention to an object in your storytelling, you'd better fulfill its potential or you're writing incorrectly.

 

So, we have the Ancient One pointing out what happens if an infinity stone is pulled from the "flow of time".  Let's call it "the Sacred Timeline".  And we also have a big ol' mess of stones pulled from their natural ordering of things and unable to act due to the magic dampener that is the TVA.   Our "gun" is now loaded. 

 

What happens to dozens, if not hundreds of infinity stones pulled from their natural order, if Loki and Sylvie succeed in bringing down the TVA and thereby ending it's magic-blocking abilities?  We wonder if it's possible that we'll soon to find out.

 

[Mr. Vee]

Ep 4 has a post-credits fyi

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

Ep 4 has a post-credits fyi

So good!!!!

[Techwright]

25 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

So good!!!!

Yes it was!  And I liked what big-name actor they've brought in.

 

I've one abiding question...

Spoiler

What was Sylvie's Nexus Event?

 

See, in the comics, Loki eventually reveals he created Sylvie, implanting her with powers and false memories, making her think she's Asgardian.   MCU appears to be leading people to assume that Sylvie is a Loki variant, but there's several little tidbits that don't add up.  For example:  Why did they arrest child Sylvie at the age she was, when you'd think that the variant event was when she was formed with XX chromosomes rather than XY?  We've previously seen them try to intervene as close to the variation in the time line as possible.  Also, Sylvie has studiously avoided mentioning the names of her parents.  Several other little gleanings here and there make me wonder if the idea that Sylvie's backstory is a lie, even to her. 

 

It was wacky to see usually proper actor Richard E. Grant in a cheesy classic Loki outfit!

 

[Glacier Peak]

Spoiler

So I really enjoyed start to finish of this episode. I was devastated when Mobius got the eraser! I wanted to see these three head honchos get some kind of reveal, so I guess that worked out. I think what I liked most about this episode is that when it ended I was like, damn! And that didn't happen after the third episode, so I have a lot of excitement for the last two episodes this season.

 

[Techwright]

A pair of discoveries regarding episode 4 since I last posted...

Spoiler

1) New Rockstars (YouTube channel) did a breakdown of Ep. 4, and revealed that the mid-credit scene has an Avengers tower that was not present during the Battle of New York.  Specifically it has an upper deck that was first seen in Avengers: Age of Ultron.  This suggest the destroyed NYC that we see is possible an alternate timeline apocalypse, like perhaps Ultron won, or Thanos fulfilled his promise to Steve Rogers and decimated the planet in revenge for being annoying.

 

2) This one surprised me.  It's a suggestion of who the big bad of the series really is, and not all fingers point towards Kang.   I caught one name in a passing comment on a review, one that I've not heard before:  Immortus.   This may be old news to you, but it was new to me, so I did some digging.  Turns out, Kang the Conqueror is not the only variant of Nathaniel Richards, there's a lot of them, and one is called Immortus.   I found the following quote particularly interesting:

 

" He calls himself the Master of Time! "Gardener of Time" is more truthful! He prunes away the chronal branches deemed by others to be dangerous, reducing reality to a bloodless meadow! But that's not the way of warriors -- of men! I say, let it be a forest! Let it be a jungle!"  —Kang the Conqueror^{[src]  Quoted on} https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nathaniel_Richards_(Immortus)_(Earth-6311)

 

First, his work is actually referred to as "pruning", and it is time branches deemed to be dangerous.  Second, the quote gives us a good view of the two variants:  Immortus uses precision pruning to control,  Kang uses war, chaos, and conquest. 

 

You see where I'm going with this, I hope.  Using the comics as a reference, Immortus makes better sense as the bad guy than Kang.  If you read the rest of the article on Immortus you'll get, well, a headache at first, but you'll also get a few nifty parallels to what is going on in Loki.  Immortus operates in a pocket outside of time, which the comics call Limbo.  Time functions differently there.  Immortus had Ravonna, or a variant of her, as girlfriend for a time.  And his story interweaves with that of Scarlet Witch and Vision. 

 

Ultimately I'd say the big bad is ...Franklin Richards.  The problem is, which variant of Richards is that?  Kang, Immortus, or one of the many others?