Illusion Domination

[Arcadio]

Hi everyone! It is once again, yet again time to discuss porting Illusion Control to dominators!

 

I understand there are several problems with moving Illusion as it exists now onto dominators, both with powers that have no synergy in domination and the permanent set-it and forget-it control of phantom army. So I feel like the set should just be reimagined as 'Illusion Domination' the same way controllers have 'Darkness Affinity.' Some powers I think might need changing:

 

• Spectral Wounds: Somewhat redundant for dominators... but it's flavorful, and we already have lift and propel, so it can stay.
• Blind, Deceive, Flash: all fine
• Superior Invisibility: I personally would want to see a return to dominators' villainous roots and give them a chance to crit out of invisibility. Either a critical hit with damage or a critical control/domination for one move. I think either one would make the set unique and fits what I would expect from illusion back when doms were villain only.
• Group Invisibility: I don't think this power fits the flavor of a dominator at all. I would prefer to replace it entirely with a more active defensive option which I'm going to call 'Smoke and Mirror'
  • Smoke and Mirror: TAoE toggle (like dimension shift). Targets inside the AoE have a tohit debuff applied when attacking targets outside and vice versa. (I just really like dimension shift as a power and wish there were more powers like it)
• Phantom Army: Now this is the sticking point, always has been. PA is a problem as-is because a) it's instant and permanent control over your targets. b) the things do pretty decent damage themselves. c) dominators also do pretty significant damage themselves, especially when they don't need to cast their controls in between attacks. I think it's understandable that the devs don't want dominators to have PA as it is in controllers. However, I personally also am not interested in a diet-PA on dominators so I suggest just replacing it with 'Phantasmagoria.'
  • Phantasmagoria: For this replacement, I imagined it essentially being like Gang War or Hell on Earth where you would summon a swarm of weak phantoms with low health. I think for these to make sense as part of a control set, each attack should have a chance to apply a low-mag confuse or stun just like an interface proc. To keep in the spirit of aggro management of PA, they should have pretty high AoE defense so that they require at least one direct attack to get rid of. I think between them being able to CC with their attacks and requiring direct attention to get rid of, this would be a decent interpretation of CC and damage through pets that keeps the flavor of what PA does without being that unstoppable force.
• Spectral Terror: I used to think this needed to be changed, but I've recently seen that Animate Stone gets domination with its seismic smash, so why couldn't this? Sounds fine to me.
• Phantasm: Maybe with the removal of Group Invisibility it may want some stealth built into its resistance power (which I'm only just finding out it doesn't already 🤔) but otherwise it's just fine to me.

 

How do yall feel about Illusion on dominators?

[Spectre7878]

I would love to see dominators get this set. I don’t think illusion needs two invisible powers. It always seemed redundant. 

[Steampunkette]

Love the Lower-Stealth benefit from Invisibility leading to Crit Chance.

 

Replace Phantom Army with "Phantasmal Killers"

 

Phantasmal Killers have a lower damage magnitude and a proc-chance to apply a taunt to targets they hit, rather than a full on constant taunt effect.

 

All other aspects are unchanged between the two powers.

 

Group Invisibility getting replaced by Smoke and Mirrors doesn't work. The game doesn't evaluate whether a target is inside or outside of a zone when it does the ToHit calculation. It would just have to be a global ToHit debuff inside the area. Give it a ticking proc chance to confuse and I think it'll work fine.

 

Phantasm? Totally fine as is.

 

Spectral Terror... nnn... yeah. Maybe domination through it's fear effects.

 

Spectral Wounds: Cut it. We should add in a Fear Effect in it's place. Yeah, Lift/Propel exist, but they exist in sets with a bunch of other effects which do apply controls. This one doesn't so much.

[BZRKR]

I like the idea of calling the set "Illusion Domination" to separate it from "Illusion Control".

 

Spectral Wounds: I would prefer to keep it in the set. In my opinion the prismatic skulls and the damage that goes away after a while are Iconic to Illusion. Maybe for Illusion Domination, a higher percentage of the damage inflicted heals after 10 seconds?

 

Group Invisibility: I agree that it doesn't exactly fit a Dominator's flavor. I like the idea of "Smoke and Mirrors", especially if it could proc confuse. Here are two more ideas:

• Chicanery - Placate, with a duration between that of a Stalker and the pool power "Pacify"
• Shifting Images - Click power, point blank AoE. Grants yourself and allies a chance to proc a short duration Confusion on attacks. Kind of like granting Cognitive Interface without the damage.

Phantom Army: Replacing Phantom Army with a remix of Gang War sounds so awesome I worry that balancing the power would be a challenge. With a name like "Phantasmagoria" I almost think that the summoned critters should have Touch of Fear instead of the high Threat, and maybe prefer to fight in melee? Maybe Haunt is a good power to look at for ideas? Or hey, @Steampunkette's "Phantasmal Killers" looks like a good way to go too!

 

[PyroBeetle]

I love Dominators with a particular affinity for Mind on a dom...however Illusion Control would be unbalanced on a dom, or would have to be changed so much it would be a different set entirely.

 

The problem, as others have stated is Phantom Army. Obviously PA is unbalanced even on a controller, but giving it to a dominator would just be wrong. Gang War or a similar as a replacement would also be unbalanced. I vote to keep Illusion on controllers as their speciality.

[Alchemystic]

I know PA is a balancing can of worms, but I think a few additional changes might make it more Dominator friendly;

1. Swap Spectral Wounds for a single target sleep power. Reduce the damage so it's a little less that Spectral Wounds
2. Swap Group Invisibility for an AoE sleep power. Give it a little damage to compensate for reduced DPS
3. Bump Flash to T7/T8, so it lines up with other Control powersets.

 

As for PA? I know people feel as though keeping them invulnerable is their key selling point, as is their ability to hold aggro, so the main issue is damage.

 

Do we reduce the damage? do we reduce the delay between them healing that damage back? Or do we give Phantoms different powers?

[Col. Kernel]

Re:  Group Invis

 

Since we're bringing Illusion a bit more in line with other Control powers, has anyone else noticed that Illusion doesn't have an AoE immob?  This might be a good power to swap out for one.

[Arcadio]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:32 AM, Steampunkette said:

Replace Phantom Army with "Phantasmal Killers"

I like reducing the taunt effect while keeping the power essentially the same, it's definitely less OP in most cases. The only problem I could see is that it's still able to permanently control single hard targets like AVs/GMs. (Whether that's actually a problem I don't think so but others might disagree)

 

On 5/13/2021 at 10:32 AM, Steampunkette said:

Group Invisibility getting replaced by Smoke and Mirrors doesn't work. The game doesn't evaluate whether a target is inside or outside of a zone when it does the ToHit calculation. It would just have to be a global ToHit debuff inside the area. Give it a ticking proc chance to confuse and I think it'll work fine.

That's probably true, I was just hoping it could check for an effect and if the target doesn't have it it could use a different rule. But I'm not sure there are any examples of that in the game right now, oh well. 

 

On 5/13/2021 at 10:32 AM, Steampunkette said:

Spectral Wounds: Cut it. We should add in a Fear Effect in it's place. Yeah, Lift/Propel exist, but they exist in sets with a bunch of other effects which do apply controls. This one doesn't so much.

I really like this idea, I would love to see a ST terrorize like mind has mesmerize. I think the only other powers like that are the one in dark melee and presence pool. And terrorize is such an underused control type, could be pretty spicy.

 

On 5/13/2021 at 12:15 PM, BZRKR said:

• Chicanery - Placate, with a duration between that of a Stalker and the pool power "Pacify"
• Shifting Images - Click power, point blank AoE. Grants yourself and allies a chance to proc a short duration Confusion on attacks. Kind of like granting Cognitive Interface without the damage.

Hold on now I'm seeing the stalker/dominator crossover I've always wanted! 😍 I love the placate as a defensive option. Shifting Images is an good idea too. If an aoe buff is going to stay, having it enhance attacks is a much more dominator-y way to do it.

[laudwic]

My understanding is that PA was originally not supposed to do damage and what damage they did was to help them taunt.  PA was close to being nerfed, but they allowed the damage to stay in.

 

You could remove damage entirely or make all of it heal instead of just a percentage like Spectral Wounds.

 

Spectral Terror would be overpowered it it benefited from Domination. 

 

Personally, would put Wind Control as a higher priority.