OK question what goes good with /storm

[Riverdusk]

16 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Not enough love for Dark.

 

Was just thinking that.  Self heal (like water), but also an aoe immobilize to keep things from running in fear from your tornado's and Lightning storms and to help "shape" things.  And of course more -tohit debuffing.  I guess others are better at managing it than me, I don't think I could ever play a stormie without an aoe immobilize in the toolkit.  Although I guess you can go mace or leviathan epic, but they aren't quite as nice and it shuts you out of other options.  

[Without_Pause]

Storm has long been argued with lesser support numbers versus a defender to still be better on a controller since a controller could mitigate the chaos.

[Gulbasaur]

On 10/29/2021 at 10:31 PM, Without_Pause said:

Storm has long been argued with lesser support numbers versus a defender to still be better on a controller since a controller could mitigate the chaos.

From experience of a storm/water defender, the chaos is easier to tame than you think. It doesn't really benefit beige tank and spank gameplay, but you generate so much aggro that you can tank quite sustainably yourself anyway. Embrace the chaos!

[Voltak]

On 10/29/2021 at 6:11 PM, Riverdusk said:

 

Was just thinking that.  Self heal (like water), but also an aoe immobilize to keep things from running in fear from your tornado's and Lightning storms and to help "shape" things.  And of course more -tohit debuffing.  I guess others are better at managing it than me, I don't think I could ever play a stormie without an aoe immobilize in the toolkit.  Although I guess you can go mace or leviathan epic, but they aren't quite as nice and it shuts you out of other options.  

I have played /Storm extensively, I have two storms all T4 with plenty of combined experienced
I recommend not imagining how a storm would play, don't imagine it too much if you do.  That will not do the set justice at all. 
Experience is the best teacher on how to play a storm and what to expect. 

I am also going to address some things @Without_Pause has said 

From experience -->

1. We cannot make a blanket statement like storm is better on a controller.  That's just not true, not according to vast experience. 
A controller will provide more safety to self or team while  the killing is being executed, but that's the nature of a controller - enemies are going to be controlled.
The controller is going to take longer to kill a whole group than a corruptor will, especially corruptors very good AoEs - Water, Fire, DP, and so on. 
So a definition of better is what is needed if we say "better".   Better safety while killing, yes.  Better, because it kills faster, corruptor. 
Or, you can also say, as long as the corruptor survives the danger but kills quickly, then that's as good as you want. 
If you as a player need more safety while killing then go controller 
If you as a player can play a corruptor and be safe enough, then no one is better, you can get the mission done and kill quickly. 

The imagined control that perhaps many players without a large amount of experience with storm focus on  is about "what to do with the knockbacks" ?  

The best way to maximize how much control you have while playing a storm is player skill, the use of smart and efficient tactics, play IQ, and so on. 

I use KD IOs on both my storms, Ice/Storm controller and Water/Storm corruptor.  Once the corruptor has that, the question is answered.  Now we focus on just killing. 
That is an immense damage amplifier and a great addition to control.   *** Some controllers don't even bother with knockdown and perform amazing, specifically illusion/storm.  Illusion has no need for knockdown, all of the pets of illusion are range characters,  and I have seen this myself, but even they will do more dmg with knockdown IOs. 

You don't need an immobilize at all when playing storm, neither on a controller nor a corruptor.

You don't worry about things running, neither on storm controller or on storm corruptor.  That's never been an issue I had to deal with. 
Tornado is going to knockdown (I have the KD IO) things are not going to do much except be on their backs, but not running with tornado on them. 
Lightning Storm is not going to cause problems for you by having critters running away either. 

Freezing rain is nearly as good as ice slick in that it keeps enemies bouncing on their backs as well. 

Gale with KD in it is extremely powerful control and DMG multiplier 

Mastering Hurricane takes practice, takes player skill and, use of good tactics/strategies, again, intelligent play. 

Water has a great knock UP, which is good, also helps to multiply damage. 

_____________________

I have no beef with Dark, if you know anything about me as a player, I am a huge proponent of Dark powers.  Dark goes very well with storm 

But it is NOT because you need an immobilize, that's just not true.  Storm does not need it. 

Now, it does NOT hurt to have one, but that's as far as I can say, that it won't hurt.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by Voltak

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Voltak said:

I recommend not imagining how a storm would play

I had a level 50 Earth/storm on live which I played a ton. Not farmed. No 2x XP. No Incarnates. Not even IO sets. Old school having teams play stupid taking on up to three mobs at different spots on a map full knowing I had everything under control. I even soloed it. I also have a level 50 Plant/storm here. And yes, I have done Storm on a defender. I'm sure it isn't intended, but this response and its overall tone is disrespectful as hell. To imply your experience somehow trumps anything someone else could imagine when I literally spent numerous hours playing the builds. Holy hell. FYI, I'm not alone with saying Storm is better on a controller. Certainly there is an argument for it. Storm might not need an immobilize power as I certainly didn't always use it, but mobs do need to be on FR in order to have the -res applied. Also, the ability to stack AoE disorients on a mobs is another a reason to pick Dark and a pro for controllers.

[Carnifax]

4 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

but mobs do need to be on FR in order to have the -res applied

They have to have been in the FR to get the debuff. Unlike something like Tar Patch though once you have been debuffed it lingers for 30 seconds. So stuff escaping it doesn't mean they aren't debuffed any more (it does obviously mean they are less AOEable though). This is also why Freezing Rain stacks so well (since different patches count as different casters). 

 

One reason Storm is good on a Controller is that FRs -Resist looks a little higher than I'd expect compared to Defenders. Defs have -35% resist. Controllers have -30%. I'd have expected it to be 40% / 30%. 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.freezingrain_controller.freezingrain&at=minion_pets

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.freezingrain.freezingrain&at=minion_pets

 

They both get the same Tornado as well from what I can tell. Weirdly they do get different versions of Lightning Storm. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voltak]

52 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

They have to have been in the FR to get the debuff. Unlike something like Tar Patch though once you have been debuffed it lingers for 30 seconds. So stuff escaping it doesn't mean they aren't debuffed any more (it does obviously mean they are less AOEable though). This is also why Freezing Rain stacks so well (since different patches count as different casters). 

 

One reason Storm is good on a Controller is that FRs -Resist looks a little higher than I'd expect compared to Defenders. Defs have -35% resist. Controllers have -30%. I'd have expected it to be 40% / 30%. 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.freezingrain_controller.freezingrain&at=minion_pets

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pets.freezingrain.freezingrain&at=minion_pets

 

They both get the same Tornado as well from what I can tell. Weirdly they do get different versions of Lightning Storm. 

 

 

 

 

 

Firs, I apologize to @Without_Pause  if it was disrespectful, but I certainly was not aiming to disrespect. 

But Carnifax is only stating facts. 
 They only need FR to get debuff.  After they get the debuff, they can move and the debuff will already be applied.  
Mobs don't need to be immobilized for FR. 
FR also knocks mobs down. 
If anyone manages to move away from FR after getting hit by FR, and If your recharge is high enough, you cast FR again and it will stack, even if they moved away from the first one, but the debuff is already on them. 

And, like I said earlier, with KD slotted in tornado, they will be getting knocked down, and it's hard to run away from tornado like that. 
LS can also be slotted with KD. 

Controller provides, well... more control, so , if you want to say storm is better on a controller if the aim is optimize control , then yes. 

But no way that a blanket statement like that "storm is better on a controller" is going to go unchallenged by experience by those who play it a lot on other ATs, not just controllers.  This thread is on the Corruptor AT and I play Stormy a lot on my corruptor.  I have played Controller Storm since live, since 2007.    

"Better" would have to be defined.  I said that earlier.   

A fire/storm or Ice/Storm or even Water/Storm corruptor might have a word with you to discuss the claim that storm is just better on a controller, if you are making a blanket statement.... because if the corruptor can kill faster due to higher dmg, then "better" needs to be redefined to fit what you mean by it. 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Voltak

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

One reason Storm is good on a Controller is that FRs -Resist looks a little higher than I'd expect compared to Defenders. Defs have -35% resist. Controllers have -30%. I'd have expected it to be 40% / 30%. 

This has been raised before and Freezing Rain is in need of a consistency pass similar to what was recently done with Tar Patch. In addition to the -resist not following the normal 75% ratio between primary/secondary, it has the same -30% defense for all ATs. 

[Carnifax]

So long as any rebalance preserves the 30 second debuff time I'm okay with that. I'm guessing originally the fact FR debuffs for 30 seconds is there because Storm is so knockbacky in its default state.

 

Last "patch" to be revamped was Disruption Arrow and it looks like Homecoming have superior tech in their hands now so they don't need to go down the route of "different pseudopets for each AT". Rather a generic pseudo is created and the Character imbues it with a power, ensuring it obeys the AT modifiers across the board. 

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.trick_arrow.disruption_arrow&at=controller

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=redirects.trick_arrow.disruption_arrow&at=corruptor

 

EMP Arrow works the same way now (although granted they borked EMP Arrow across the board by forgetting it's main function is an AOE Hold)

[Riverdusk]

I think you made some very good points @Voltak and a lot of good info.  You are right for most content, you can work around not having an immobilize or other controls.  Although most of my point was that it makes things a lot easier, which I still think is true.   As I mentioned, others are probably better at it than me and so it isn't a big issue for them.  Can also always take an immobilize from an epic.

 

Also, to get more specific, for me there is the issue of AV's.  I tend to like my characters to be able to solo them, something I know not everyone cares about.  Most AV's you can't knock down or even slow much.  You really can't control them in any other way to stop their running except either an immobilize or a powerful enough taunt.   Them running around doesn't prevent you from soloing them, but it does make it take a lot longer and makes it a lot more annoying.  With storm in particular it tends to make lightning storms semi useless, although as said at least freezing rain's debuff "sticks". 

 

Even the vaunted illusion/storm with a taunting phantom army will have at least some AV's running from them due to the storms.   The easy one to test against is the clockwork king from Tina Macintyre.  You can quickly put up a character to level 40 on test server and just go talk to Tina and the clockwork king is always the first mission she gives you, set difficulty to AVs on.  I tested that combo because some with it were insisting they never had AV's run from them while others said they were.  I threw out phantom army, the king stuck there no problem.  I threw a tornado and a lightning storm down and suddenly he was off to the races even with PA taunting.  I don't think all AV's tend to run as much which is probably why people were giving different results, but it will at least sometimes be an issue.  Unfortunately with a controller you don't even have the ability to take an immobilize in your epic (maybe if they ever release the Utility Belt power pool set I'll jump on illusion/storm).

 

In the end, with my playstyle, it is probably why I tend to like cold over storm anyway. 🙂

[Voltak]

3 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

I think you made some very good points @Voltak and a lot of good info.  You are right for most content, you can work around not having an immobilize or other controls.  Although most of my point was that it makes things a lot easier, which I still think is true.   As I mentioned, others are probably better at it than me and so it isn't a big issue for them.  Can also always take an immobilize from an epic.

 

Also, to get more specific, for me there is the issue of AV's.  I tend to like my characters to be able to solo them, something I know not everyone cares about.  Most AV's you can't knock down or even slow much.  You really can't control them in any other way to stop their running except either an immobilize or a powerful enough taunt.   Them running around doesn't prevent you from soloing them, but it does make it take a lot longer and makes it a lot more annoying.  With storm in particular it tends to make lightning storms semi useless, although as said at least freezing rain's debuff "sticks". 

 

Even the vaunted illusion/storm with a taunting phantom army will have at least some AV's running from them due to the storms.   The easy one to test against is the clockwork king from Tina Macintyre.  You can quickly put up a character to level 40 on test server and just go talk to Tina and the clockwork king is always the first mission she gives you, set difficulty to AVs on.  I tested that combo because some with it were insisting they never had AV's run from them while others said they were.  I threw out phantom army, the king stuck there no problem.  I threw a tornado and a lightning storm down and suddenly he was off to the races even with PA taunting.  I don't think all AV's tend to run as much which is probably why people were giving different results, but it will at least sometimes be an issue.  Unfortunately with a controller you don't even have the ability to take an immobilize in your epic (maybe if they ever release the Utility Belt power pool set I'll jump on illusion/storm).

 

In the end, with my playstyle, it is probably why I tend to like cold over storm anyway. 🙂

I get it but we are talking about corruptors.  Corruptors immobilize is just not as strong as a controller let alone a dominator. 

However, I do feel what you are saying, how can I not?

Even then I did the Tina Mc arc with my Water/Storm.  AVs got killed and smashed, granted, not as easy as on my dominator but certainly faster than my ice/storm could do it.  

I am not making a case against Dark blast.  As I have said before...  I LOVE dark.  If you know me as a player, I am a huge proponent of dark. 

I am just saying it's not needed to play a good storm nor to do challenging stuff with storm. 

Styles and preferences have no ownership, so there's no arbitrary there. 

Just saying you can play a good stormy without that, storm runs well on water as good as any other set for a corruptor.  

Today, I came back after testing with @Nova from excelsior. 

The water / storm corruptor cleared the Cimerorans faster than my much loved ice/storm controller. 

[ChromeFamily]

Surprised no one mentioned elec/storm

[UltraAlt]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:55 PM, Wuteva said:

Lord help me with my alt issues

 

Don't worry. You are just channeling Jack Kirby. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I would suggest electric or water.

 

I could see a Banshee with sonic/storm powers or some kind of Winter World creature with Ice/Storm powers.

Heck, When it came down to it, I could make up some excuse for anything ... I think it would be pushing it for an archery, assault rifle, beam rifle, or dual pistols mixed with storm.