Did you get a piece of art from Taclobanon?

[Greycat]

So. Rather miffed at this, but I thought I'd give a heads up here.

 

Back on live, Taclobanon was one of my go-to people for artwork. Decent work, decent prices, good to work with. He disappeared for a few years after a storm, popped up, vanished again.

 

Well, he - or someone using his name and logo - is now on a site called "opensea," selling NFTs. And guess what pieces are on this page... yep, our commissions. And from what I'm seeing on his DA page, nobody was notified.

 

https://opensea.io/taclobanon?fbclid=IwAR3MbqOQiPG_4vYayCtP6jSxV5ABtJHxElGZEyw4peIum81RQE9zEDHZAp8  

 

I've put a message on his DA site. I'm hoping this isn't actually him. (Some of the pieces ... I'm not sure Disney would be thrilled with someone selling an Ahsoka piece, for instance.)

Edited November 4, 2021 by Greycat

[battlewraith]

Well, this strikes me as mild karma.

 

Many years ago on live, there was a small but active art community  on the forums. It inspired me to start drawing again. There were several of us that did a lot of art for forum regulars, most of it free. This lead to brief period where people started to do more involved pieces, lots of people were getting commissions, etc. It was a really good scene. But then people started shopping around on other sites like DA. That's fine, of course, but they'd not only post the artwork on the forums--they'd advertise those artists and their sales and whatnot on the game forums. I wasn't the only one that was rather miffed that people who had no involvement in the game or the community and weren't paying a subscription fee were getting access to that space. It got worse when the artists from the Philippines started-- Taclobanon, Cric, John Becaro, etc. It pretty much destroyed the idea of getting any kind of reasonable rate for your work. That was the end of the golden age of commissions on the coh forums.

 

It's probably the same guy. $12 quickie commissions are probably not enough to pay the bills any more and he's looking to monetize work he's already done.

[_Kai_]

As someone who posted a lot of those artists I'm sure(Jtran/Daos, MaHenBu, HugoHugo, Avionetca....probably a lot more...), I was always happy to share when artists I commissioned had sales going on, because people's budget for art and what they consider is 'worth it' is vastly different.  There are a number of wonderful CoH playing artists whose art I think is great, but that I will never be able to afford because of my own budget/guilt limit per piece of art, and it's unfair to say that lower quality lower cost artists 'destroyed the idea of getting any kind of reasonable rate' as most of the people that used them would never have been customers of the higher priced artists in the first place.

 

That said, selling NFTs of something that was done as a commission is very sketchy, considering that most commissions mean giving the commissioner the full size file and the art is attributed with 'character belongs to'. 

[Oubliette_Red]

The relevant portion OpenSea's ToS Section 9 states:
 

Quote

You represent and warrant that you have, or have obtained, all rights, licenses, consents, permissions, power and/or authority necessary to grant the rights granted herein for any User Information that you submit, post or display on or through the Services. You agree that such User Information will not contain material subject to copyright or other proprietary rights, unless you have necessary permission or are otherwise legally entitled to post the material and to grant OpenSea the license described above.

 

The same section also provides details on how to report these assets.

 

[battlewraith]

22 hours ago, _Kai_ said:

As someone who posted a lot of those artists I'm sure(Jtran/Daos, MaHenBu, HugoHugo, Avionetca....probably a lot more...), I was always happy to share when artists I commissioned had sales going on, because people's budget for art and what they consider is 'worth it' is vastly different.  There are a number of wonderful CoH playing artists whose art I think is great, but that I will never be able to afford because of my own budget/guilt limit per piece of art, and it's unfair to say that lower quality lower cost artists 'destroyed the idea of getting any kind of reasonable rate' as most of the people that used them would never have been customers of the higher priced artists in the first place.

 

 

It's not unfair to say that, it's the truth. I experienced it and tracked it myself. A lot of people want art, very few are willing to pay much for it. You flood a market with fast cheap work and that becomes the new normal. As an artist you can lower your prices, offer some shoddy low-price option, or just bow out. The majority will eventually bow out because hustling for peanuts eventually leads to health issues and is seldom financially viable. But in a global economy there's always going to be someone to replace them. An illustrator with years of experience and expensive equipment would do better financially to just go flip burgers than try to offer an "affordable" option to people who have grown used to paying close to nothing to begin with. But it's great for the consumer who doesn't want to feel guilty about paying much for something.

Edited November 7, 2021 by battlewraith

[Crystal Dragon]

I tend to undercharge for my commissions because it's AI assisted, but I'm completely against selling my work, or commissioned pieces on any NTF marketplace. In fact on my commissions page, I expressly point out that I refuse to sell to people that have only intent to auction my art off for a higher price because NTF is harmful to the environment and I refuse to participate in doing further damage to our only planet to call home. If I had better tools available, I would most certainly make the effort to do things by hand, but given my disability, I'm unable to at this time. I will say this however, if anyone spots any of my work up there, let me know. I will tear someone a new orifice at those marketplaces and make certain they blacklist any work with my name attached to it.

[_Kai_]

I guess we'll have to just disagree then, as I'm very sure that if there were no $25 options, the people who can afford $25 wouldn't magically buy $100 options, that's like saying if there were no Civics/Jettas people would just save up and buy Porsches when really they'd just give up on getting a car! But not going to derail this thread about NFTs any further 🙂

 

 

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, _Kai_ said:

I guess we'll have to just disagree then, as I'm very sure that if there were no $25 options, the people who can afford $25 wouldn't magically buy $100 options, that's like saying if there were no Civics/Jettas people would just save up and buy Porsches when really they'd just give up on getting a car! But not going to derail this thread about NFTs any further 🙂

 

 

I know right? It's like... I got $50 in my wallet. I can't buy a tv with that. And without some sort of magic I can't budget or save up for something like that. So I guess I'll never own a tv!

 

[Draggynn]

Reading this I definitely feel saddened that a robust art community was killed off.  I wish we had more art on these forums (although I suspect much of that is just a much smaller player base now).  I got into the commissioning game fairly late in CoH's life (I did not really have disposable income until 2009, and at that point, my available funds were still fairly limited).  As someone with limited income I would often scour the art forums looking for artists to commission whose prices I could afford.  I appreciated recommendations from other players because I could see how artists had interpreted CoH assets and also get a sense of who would be pleasant to work with.  So from my perspective at least, as a commissioner, being informed about other artists I could commission for CoH art felt like valuable insight that made sense on the CoH forums.  Especially given how often various artists would be closed for commissions, having a robust selection of available artists at different price points felt like an important service for those of us that just enjoyed seeing City of Heroes art.  I can definitely understand how that would feel different to the artists, though.

 

In order to meet my price point, this often meant that I was commissioning CoH artists who were just starting out (Pirate Cashoo for instance) or else I was commissioning artists from overseas.  I know that, personally (and anecdotal evidence does not a good argument make), if at that point in my commissioning journey, the only options had been above the point where I felt comfortable spending money, I would not have saved for commissions.  I did not have a "Commissions" budget that I could either spend on a more expensive or a cheaper option, but rather a "fun money" budget that I could either spend on commissions or something else entirely (like eating out at a restaurant I liked).  At that point, for me at least, artists weren't competing with other artists, but with everything else I might spend my money on.

 

Being a decade later, I am now in a much better financial situation and am more often looking for an artist rather than a deal, and have continued to try to commission CoH artists where I can.  However, I still rely on the forums (like this one) to help me identify artists who are taking commissions because just the search process can often feel daunting given the number of platforms artists can be on.  I am under the impression, @battlewraith, that you have not been open for commissions of late and have been busy with your own projects.  If I'm wrong about that, I suspect I'm not the only person that's had that misimpression, although our commissioning community does appear to be a bit sparse of late.

[battlewraith]

What you're describing to me is a marketplace. It's Amazon--where can I find the cheap goods I want, whenever I want them, with reviews of the vendors. It's not a community. The artists there were active on the coh forums back in the day posted art, gave feedback, did tutorials, ran contests, etc. I for one did at least a dozen free pieces before even offering commissions. So it really came across as a big FU to that idea of community when people starting promoting outside artists and their sales. Still does.

 

Would people have saved up for more expensive commissions if the cheap stuff wasn't available? Who knows. I think the more relevant question is: are people going to buy a single well rendered piece when they can buy multiple lower quality cheap ones. I'm pretty sure the answer to that is no. At that point it becomes a race to the bottom. That's when your $15 quickie headshot is competing with somebody's $7 fullbody sketch. 

 

I don't do commissions any more. 

[Draggynn]

I think it's a shame that those things turned out to be mutually exclusive because I think they each serve a purpose, so it would have been nice if they could have existed together.  I'm certain that it wasn't anyone's intention to destroy the community that you valued.