Lore Question: The Whom of Vengeance?

[Kismet Cowboy]

One of the things about the lore that I've never quite wrapped my head around are the various X groups of Vengenace. In both the Night Ward and Dark Astoria sagas they just seem to be these weird, angry snake/harpy ladies with huge murder boners that just sort of show up to serve as a secondary antagnoistic force alongside the actual villian of the story. Frequently they're able to corrupt others to their cause, such as in the case of the Carnival of Light and Knives of Artemis. The only thing I recall about them is that certain bits of dialogue suggest they might somehow be related to the Well of Furies, but I can't ever remember that really being elaborated on.

 

So yeah, help me understand the who, what, and why of them?

[A Cat]

They are servants of the Well, and punish oathbreaking and stuff. They are like turbo vigilantes who don't care at all about collateral damage. Master Midnight's missions in Night Ward has good info on them. Specifically, they are all over the Wards since they are after Emperor Cole for taking both blessings (and killing his buddy Praetorian Richter). They ended up in DA chasing Diabolique IIRC. They basically Sodom/Gomorrah the entire population center in which the oathbreaker is in. 

[Greycat]

So the ... "path" they take is:

Knives of Artemis -> Knives of Vengeance (which start showing changes, they're described as a "sect" of the KoA whose leaders are loyal to the Talons) -> Talons of Vengeance.

 

(Though that's not always the case, as the Huntresses and Zealots are described as "Citizens of First Ward" who swore loyalty.)

 

The Talons upper echelons are listed as loyal to the Furies (not the Well of the Furies, which is different - Ms. Liberty's "Girdle of Hera" was originally a wedding gift to Maiden Justice by the Furies, for instance, and looking at MIss Liberty's info in the wiki you can see she's named Alexis after one of the Furies, and both that and the novels mention Statesman befriending the three Furies - now, they're likely incarnates and powered by the WotF, but I can't see info on exactly the nature of a direct relationship. They can act independently, though.)

 

Trying to find info on just "the furies" is a royal PITA, though, since *every single entry* about lore pets mentions coming from the well, and multiple recipes mention "essence of the furies," among other things... couple references though for them being their own thing (primarily for hte belt...)

 

Edit: AMA post mentions "To answer your specific question, MAGI’s sample was a personal gift from the Furies to Azuria in return for a favor she did for them. It seems even incredibly powerful mythical beings sometimes need multiple references when applying for a business license."

 

Edit edit: Two of the Furies are named in clues in newspaper missions - Tisiphone and Alecto.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Maiden_Justice

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Girdle_of_Hera

Edited December 10, 2021 by Greycat

[Kismet Cowboy]

So the Furies and the Well of the Furies are two, totally separate and distinct groups/entities? 

 

I feel like someone wanted them to either have a much more closely intertwined relationship that we simply don't see in game, or otherwise they maybe should have chosen a different mythological group to head them.

 

It's a shame really; taken purely at face value the various 'of Vengeance' groups are pretty cool and I'm incredibly envious of some of their costume pieces and FX, but wow do they lack narrative context or grounding. It'd be nice if one or more of the Furies themselves made an appearance, so those groups could have a collective face that could flesh out their motivations and round them out a bit. As it stands they've got all the nuance and roughly the same impact as a hurricane, just a big force of nature that appears to mess things up for vague and loosely defined reasons.

[Greycat]

I'm thinking (I was trying to find one way or the other) that the Furies are empowered by the Well of the Furies - prior generation of Incarnates, essentially - but they act on their own, not at the Well's direction.

[Lazarillo]

2 hours ago, Kismet Cowboy said:

So the Furies and the Well of the Furies are two, totally separate and distinct groups/entities? 

From what I understand of it, it's the the "Well of the Furies" is more or less a nickname that was given to it by the people who discovered it (most notably Marcus Cole, a giant mythology nerd), while "The Furies" are, y'know, the actual figures of myth.

[Frozen Burn]

Basically, the Talons of Vengeance corrupt others and transform them into more of themselves.  For instance, in Master Midnight's arc in First Ward, you will see how the Talons corrupted the Carnival War and they became the Carnival of Vengeance.  Similar to DA arcs where the Talons corrupt the Knives of Artemis into being the Knives of Vengeance.  

[Zhym]

Here’s how I understand it.

 

The Knives of Artemis are a mercenary group operating as an independent wing of Malta.  They mostly appear in Malta missions, and have an annoying perception boost that lets them see right through stealth. They also like to carpet the floor with caltrops.
 

During the Dark Astoria arc, you learn that the Knives of Artemis are being converted into the Knives of Vengeance (losing their caltrops and perception bonus in the process, it seems).  Then you destroy the Knives of Vengeance, bringing both the Knives of Vengeance and the Knives of Artemis to an end.

 

The Talons of Vengeance are a Praetorian Earth group led by Sorceress Serene and encountered in the First Ward series of arcs.  It’s Serene and the Talons that have the whole Furies thing going on.
 

If your character has encountered the Talons in First Ward (specifically, if you’ve done Master Midnight’s arc), a dialog option will appear with Heather Townshend where you speculate that the Knives of Vengeance have something to do with the Talons of Vengeance.  Later (regardless of whether you’ve fought the Talons before) you learn from Praetor Duncan that the Talons had been recruiting the Knives of Vengeance to “purge the world of injustice.”  The Talons show up as enemies in the Dark Astoria arc from that point on.  

Edited December 11, 2021 by Zhym