Homecoming Pitch for changes to the Force Field Powerset

[ironjoe]

Homecoming Pitch for changes to the Force Field Powerset
 

Challenge
Currently Force Field is seen as a subpar support set as they offer defensive support and not much else compared to other support sets. Being so concentrated in one area, it offers little else in comparison.

 

Goal
Diversify the support offered by Force Field so that it becomes more valuable on a wider range of teams. Adjust powers seen as situationally useful. Add a debuff comparable to other sets.

 

Solution
Note: I will use Defender values as a baseline and give current values, recommend changes, show the changes, and explain my thought process for those changes.

 

Personal Force Field 
Current: Toggle: Self +Def, Res(All except Toxic)
+75% Defense (All), +40% Damage Resistance (All), +100% Resistance (Teleport)
Recommended change: Add combat suppression that if character attacks values are reduced to 10% of original values. Add DDR to both versions.
New: Toggle: Self +Def, Res(All except Toxic)
(Normal)+75% Defense (All), +40% Damage Resistance (All), +100% Resistance (Teleport), +20% Resist (Defense)
(Suppressed) +7.5% Defense (All), +4% Damage Resistance (All), +10% Resistance (Teleport), +10% Resist (Defense)
When not suppressed use current values.
Why: Personal Force Field is situational useful to some players. Allowing a player to attack with a weakened form of it would allow for more players to find a use for the power.

 

Deflection Shield 
Current: Ranged, Ally +DEF(Smash, Lethal, Melee), Res(Toxic) (all affected targets) for 240s
+15% Defense (Melee, Smashing, Lethal), +40% Resistance (Toxic)
Recommended Change: Reduce Defense (Melee, Smashing, Lethal) from 15% to 10%. Reduce Resistance (Toxic) to 10%. Add Resistance (Smashing, Lethal, Psionic, Defense)
New: Ranged, Ally +DEF(Smash, Lethal, Melee), Res(Smashing, Lethal, Toxic, Psionic, Defense) (all affected targets) for 240s
+10% Defense (Melee, Smashing, Lethal), +10% Resistance (Smashing, Lethal, Toxic, Psionic, Defense)
Why: Main support issue: “Only offering defensive mitigation is seen as a weakness of the powerset. By trading some defense for resistance, this makes the set more useful in a variety of situations. It is also in theme as in most fiction that if something makes it through a defensive shield, the attack is weakened.” I also felt trading some Toxic resistance to add in Psionic resistance would add value to the set.

Force Bolt
Current: Ranged, Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Knockback
7.2293 points of Smashing damage, Mag +18.694 to Knockback
Recommended Change: None
Why: Force Bolt has its supporters as “machine gunning” it is a thing. I had considered adding an additional debuff here but felt it would be better in the most often skipped detention field.

 

Insulation Shield
Current: Ranged, Ally +DEF(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Ranged, AoE), Res (End Drain)
+15% Defense (Ranged, Area, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative), +86.5% Resistance (End Drain) (all affected targets) for 240s, Mag -10.812 Mez Protection (Main Target) for 90s
Recommended Change: Reduce Defense (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Ranged, AoE) Defense from 15% to 10%. Reduce Resistance (End Drain) from 86.5% to 50%. Add Resistance (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Defense) 10%. Add Recovery +30%.
New: Ranged, Ally +DEF(Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Ranged, AoE), Res (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Defense, End Drain)
+10% Defense (Ranged, Area, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative Energy), +10% Res (Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative, Defense), +30% Recovery, +50% Resistance (End Drain) (all affected targets) for 240s, Mag -10.812 Mez Protection (Main Target) for 90s
Why: [See main support issue] I also felt trading some End Drain Resistance for a small Recovery bonus would be a buff enjoyed by most teams.

 

Detention Field 
Current: Ranged, Foe Capture (Special)
+596% Immobilized, Untouchable, OnlyAffectsSelf for 30s
Recommended Change: Change to a hold. 12s second Held (Mag 3). -40 Base Defense, -40% Damage Resistance. +20% Resistance (Heal Dmg)
New: Ranged Hold, Foe -RES, -DEF, -Heal
12 second Held (Mag 3), -40% Base Defense for 30s, -40% Damage Resistance (All) for 30s, +20% Resistance (Heal Dmg) for 30s
Why: Making a foe untouchable is very situationally useful to the point of making this power normally useless. Forcefield also lacks debuffs other than soft control of knockback. So making Detention Field a traditional hold/debuff is much more useful for a power choice. Thematically making it a defense/resist debuff seems to work. I also felt heal resistance fit in as the Detention Field makes it hard for allies of the enemy to assist with healing.

 

Dispersion Bubble 
Current: Toggle: PBAoE, Team +Res(Hold, Immobilize, Disorient) +DEF(All) 
+10% Defense (All), Mag -8.65 Mez Protection (Held, Immobilized, Stunned), +86.5% Mez Resistance (Held, Immobilized, Stunned)
Recommended Change: Reduce Defense (All) from 10% to 5%. Add Resistance (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Toxic, Psionic, Defense) 10%.
New: Toggle: PBAoE, Team +Res(Hold, Immobilize, Disorient) +DEF(All) +RES(Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Toxic, Psionic, Defense)
+5% Defense (All), Resistance (Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Toxic, Psionic, Defense) 10%, Mag -8.65 Mez Protection (Held, Immobilized, Stunned), +86.5% Mez Resistance (Held, Immobilized, Stunned)
Why:  [See main support issue]

 

Repulsion Field
Current: Toggle: PBAoE Knockback
Mag +6.231 to Knockback (all affected targets), -1.0 points of Endurance (self only), Radius 9ft.
Recommended Change: Add 10 points of Energy Damage (all affected targets), Reduce knockback to knockdown. Increase radius. Remove additional Endurance penalty.
New: Toggle: PBAoE Knockdown, Minor DoT(Energy)
Mag +0.67 to Knockback (all affected targets), 10 points of Energy damage (all affected targets), Radius 20ft
Why: The power is currently situationally useful and overlaps with Force Bubble in use. Making the power similar to a Force Field variation of “Hot Feet” is more useful in combat and differentiates the two powers.

 

Repulsion Bomb
Current: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Light DMG(Smash), Foe Knockdown, Disorient
36.1466 points of Smashing damage, Mag +0.67 to Knockback, 11.92 second Stunned, Cast Time 3.07 sec
Recommended Change: Reduce Cast Time to 2 sec.
New: Ranged (Targeted AoE), Light DMG(Smash), Foe Knockdown, Disorient
36.1466 points of Smashing damage, Mag +0.67 to Knockback, 11.92 second Stunned, Cast Time 2 sec
Why: Cast time is what impacts the usefulness of this power. Shaving off ⅓ of the Cast Time will result in a petter player experience.

 

Force Bubble
Current: Toggle: PBAoE Foe Repel, Knockdown
Mag +10 Repel for 0.25s, Mag +0.1 to Knockback, Radius 50 ft
Recommended Change: Reduce Radius to 25 ft.
New: Toggle: PBAoE Foe Repel, Knockdown
Mag +10 Repel for 0.25s, Mag +0.1 to Knockback, Radius 25 ft
Why: Force Bubble is too large to be useful in most cases. Reducing the size makes it usable on more maps.

 

Challenges
Everyone seems to have their own opinion of how to “fix” Force Field. This is mainly taking the same powers and swapping in different effects and values while attempting to keep some balance.

 

In Conclusion
These proposed changes are what Force Field needs to be more competitive with other support sets by adding in some diversity in support given while adding in a needed debuff for the set.

 

Notes on concerns by reviewers
Does the addition of the hold/debuff counter the loss of not being able to Power Boost shields due to the resist component?

 

Keeping the extra -Endurance on Repulsion Field was seen as too much considering enemies would now only be knocked down. Removed that due to the suggestion.
 

Homecoming Force Field Pitch v.5.pdf

[Aurora_Girl]

1 hour ago, ironjoe said:

Notes on concerns by reviewers
Does the addition of the hold/debuff counter the loss of not being able to Power Boost shields due to the resist component?

 

Change all the +Res to +10% Absorb and that's not an issue. 

[Lazarillo]

Well, I know I'd play the heck outta this sit with it like this.  I feel like the HC team prefers to rebalance with gimmicks (see Energy Melee, Electric Blast) though this is more along the lines of how I'd want things to be done.  Keeps to the cottage rule and makes it a solid set.  If anything, it might be a little too strong with the changes to Repulsion Field.  The ticking-KD would have to be pretty infrequent to make it not effectively hold enemies in place while close to you, which isn't quite up to snuff with the current form.  I think maintain it as KB would keep the area denial (while still allowing a KB->KD enhancement that could reduce the rate but eliminate the KD, a la Bonfire, rather than Hot Feet).

[CloudMouse]

wonder if there's a way to work in an 'absorb' like mechanic for defense. 

[ironjoe]

11 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

Change all the +Res to +10% Absorb and that's not an issue. 

 

While Absorb was one of my early thoughts, I later thought the reason for over capping defenses so high is to make up for a lack of DDR. My argument is that adding in DDR  does in fact make up for it and in fact makes it more valuable. The only thing I question for myself is if the DDR numbers are high enough. Right now it has a base DDR of 30% across the different sources. I feel the resistance and DDR are much more in theme for Force Field. I also feel adding in Absorb would be much more in theme for Empathy/Pain Domination which I am also working on a tweak for.

[Aurora_Girl]

My thing with absorb on FF (have a Psi/FF 50, my bubbling fingers are sore) is that thematically speaking it's not a "health" Absorb, it's a "the bubble blunts what it doesn't deflect entirely" Absorb. While also preserving the ability to Power Boost the shields. 

[Lazarillo]

52 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

My thing with absorb on FF (have a Psi/FF 50, my bubbling fingers are sore) is that thematically speaking it's not a "health" Absorb, it's a "the bubble blunts what it doesn't deflect entirely" Absorb.

The thing about that aspect is, though, that even if the absorb gets used up, the bubble stays, so it doesn't quite fit that aspect.  You'd have to make it a ticking absorb which would lessen (a)the purpose of power-boosting it anyway, and (b)be kind of annoying out of combat.

[MHertz]

There are some good ideas here. One thing that I feel should be addressed is that FF has so many ways of drawing aggro without a proportional way to mitigate it. Force Bubble, Repulsion Field and Repulsion Bomb draw considerable aggro to the defenseless bubbler when compared to, say, a Rad defender throwing down Enervating Field or a Dark defender using Tar Patch — and both can heal themselves. Maybe I’m using it “wrong,” but I only ever use Repulsion Field as a last resort because I know it’s likely to get my defender face-planted on the floor.

 

Edit: Also, RES does not scale unfavorably by level. If the bad guy is +0 and does 100 damage, a 20% resistance mitigates 20 points. If the bad guy is +4 and does 160 damage, the same resistance mitigates 32 points of damage. By contrast, the entire level-scaling algorithm is based on neutralizing DEF by modifying to-hit scores. If they made FF’s defenses somehow immune to the enemy’s to-hit buffs, that’d help a lot.

Edited December 12, 2021 by MHertz

[TheZag]

Looks like a well thought out and presented proposal but i wouldnt change it to a +def +res set.

 

We have some heavy healing sets with empathy and pain.

 

We have heal/debuff with dark and radiation.

 

We have defense and resist with thermal and cold.  Maybe sonic too,  i never used it, it might be just resist.

 

So we have defense bubbles with resist already but they are fire or ice.  Giving it that defense debuff resistance along with absorb with some of your proposed changes would go a long way in making the set unique and useful.  Basically i like the changes that make it different and not the ones that make it the same as other sets. 

[Frozen Burn]

I think the FF set is pretty fine the way it is.  I don't see it as, nor have I heard of anyone saying, it is a subpar set and needs "fixing."  It is a superb set providing great buffs for a team.  Yes, it's all defense, but that's ok as many people build for defense set bonuses and these shields put them way over the cap completely protecting them.  Resists already come from SONIC and THERMAL - so no need to add any here.  

 

I do think some TWEAKS can be useful as you suggested:  Detention field being a Hold vs an Untouchable; Repulsion Bomb could use an animation tightening; and Force bubble, I'm on the fence about shrinking the bubble size - some more powerful enemies (especially some EBs) can work their way to you pretty close through the repel and if the bubble is smaller, you'd be toast since the bubble draws a lot of aggro.

 

However, I'd be fine with no changes at all either.  It's a great set as is.  

[ironjoe]

On 12/13/2021 at 5:30 PM, Frozen Burn said:

I think the FF set is pretty fine the way it is.  I don't see it as, nor have I heard of anyone saying, it is a subpar set and needs "fixing."

 

I guess this one depends on how large of groups you play with for if you will hear it or not. Normally I hear from people that Cold Domination already provides the defense of Force Field yet also has some of the best debuffs in game and they would much rather have a Cold Corruptor on the team.

 

So part of my concept was to not try to to compete directly with Ice Shields on pure defense but to diversify further for differentiation based on DDR. Then once down the DDR route there was no incentive to not have other resists so it made thematic sense to me to go for other resists. I was also thinking of Thermal with this change with how it doesn't just try to match all the resist buffs of Sonic but also adds in some healing. So Thermal has it's own differentiation from Sonic.

 

But at any rate if you don't see the issue between Cold and Force Field, then my explanation will come off as an argument with you and that is not my intention. All I can say is that I do hear it all the time, and I have to acknowledge it myself when comparing things. I just like the set and would love to see it get some love to make it more valuable to those playing end game content.

[ironjoe]

On 12/12/2021 at 2:07 PM, MHertz said:

There are some good ideas here. One thing that I feel should be addressed is that FF has so many ways of drawing aggro without a proportional way to mitigate it. Force Bubble, Repulsion Field and Repulsion Bomb draw considerable aggro to the defenseless bubbler when compared to, say, a Rad defender throwing down Enervating Field or a Dark defender using Tar Patch — and both can heal themselves. Maybe I’m using it “wrong,” but I only ever use Repulsion Field as a last resort because I know it’s likely to get my defender face-planted on the floor.

 

Edit: Also, RES does not scale unfavorably by level. If the bad guy is +0 and does 100 damage, a 20% resistance mitigates 20 points. If the bad guy is +4 and does 160 damage, the same resistance mitigates 32 points of damage. By contrast, the entire level-scaling algorithm is based on neutralizing DEF by modifying to-hit scores. If they made FF’s defenses somehow immune to the enemy’s to-hit buffs, that’d help a lot.

 

With Force Bubble I currently skip it as I find the bubble too large to manage usefully. My intent with the change was to basically make it like a Force Field Hurricane, which works really well in the hands of a good Storm player. Really you wouldn't want to use both Force Bubble and Repulsion Field at the same time. You would probably want to use Force Bubble to push everything into a tight group in a corner or other spot and then switch on Repulsion Field to watch enemies keep falling down and taking damage as they try to work towards you.

 

As far as the resist vs. defense point, I currently have a base of 30% DDR to counter the Defense Debuffs I often see but after thinking about this a bit would adding in a debuff to enemies to-hit buffs inside Dispersion Bubble also help in the case you are proposing and if so what percentage would you propose? Also while resist doesn't always scale favorably, it is a much rarer buff compared to defense all over the place. Most of the times on leagues I will be well over 100% defense but rarely will I be at resist cap unless I am playing something with it's own armor. So I feel like gaining those resists are still valuable in most cases where players are well over defense cap already.

[Frozen Burn]

5 hours ago, ironjoe said:

 

I guess this one depends on how large of groups you play with for if you will hear it or not. Normally I hear from people that Cold Domination already provides the defense of Force Field yet also has some of the best debuffs in game and they would much rather have a Cold Corruptor on the team.

 

So part of my concept was to not try to to compete directly with Ice Shields on pure defense but to diversify further for differentiation based on DDR. Then once down the DDR route there was no incentive to not have other resists so it made thematic sense to me to go for other resists. I was also thinking of Thermal with this change with how it doesn't just try to match all the resist buffs of Sonic but also adds in some healing. So Thermal has it's own differentiation from Sonic.

 

But at any rate if you don't see the issue between Cold and Force Field, then my explanation will come off as an argument with you and that is not my intention. All I can say is that I do hear it all the time, and I have to acknowledge it myself when comparing things. I just like the set and would love to see it get some love to make it more valuable to those playing end game content.

 

I hear you and I do see the differences between FF and Cold.  Thermal and Sonic have similar differences.  If you change up FF to be more like Cold, you'll need to look at doing something similar to Sonic to be more like Thermal.  And then you'll have 4 sets that are very similar to each other (despite 2 still being for Def and 2 being for Resist).  That's too cookie cutter.  

 

But I do agree that FF being a legacy powerset could use some additional "oomph" or tweaking -- I don't see this as broken and needing to "fix" but certainly, I can see some "updating" could be had.  I just don't think adding in resistance and making it like another set is the answer. They can add more DDR to the shields without needing to add in other resists.  If they want to make some of the other powers have a -regen component (like force bolt), that would be cool and useful for AV/GM fights.  I am certainly open to changes that keep FF unique and not turn it into Cold.  If I want to play Cold, I'll make a toon with it (and I have).  

 

4 hours ago, ironjoe said:

 

With Force Bubble I currently skip it as I find the bubble too large to manage usefully. My intent with the change was to basically make it like a Force Field Hurricane, which works really well in the hands of a good Storm player. Really you wouldn't want to use both Force Bubble and Repulsion Field at the same time. You would probably want to use Force Bubble to push everything into a tight group in a corner or other spot and then switch on Repulsion Field to watch enemies keep falling down and taking damage as they try to work towards you.

 

As far as the resist vs. defense point, I currently have a base of 30% DDR to counter the Defense Debuffs I often see but after thinking about this a bit would adding in a debuff to enemies to-hit buffs inside Dispersion Bubble also help in the case you are proposing and if so what percentage would you propose? Also while resist doesn't always scale favorably, it is a much rarer buff compared to defense all over the place. Most of the times on leagues I will be well over 100% defense but rarely will I be at resist cap unless I am playing something with it's own armor. So I feel like gaining those resists are still valuable in most cases where players are well over defense cap already.

 

Force Bubble is skipped by many players, unfortunately.  Like Stormies and Hurricane, Force Bubble takes practice to master and use effectively.  Many Stormies try to use Hurricane effectively and generally still fail.  Force Bubble is no different.  I always take it.  I love the power and find many practical uses for it.  But I would be open to changes in Force Bubble to make it more digestible for others (like size reduction, as you suggested) as long as it still does what it does now.  Adding in a -To Hit on foes is a great idea!  

 

Repulsion Field is the power I generally skip -- it's the one that usually gets me killed as it's a "small radius Force Bubble" that draws aggro and makes things shoot me dead or just outright melee me to death when the mob hits me between the ticks of the repulsion.  I would love to see any changes in this power.

 

And as for teaming and leagues -- that's an interesting experience you have at hardly being at the resist cap.  I usually play squishie toons without armors and build up my Def, and all the leagues and trials I do, I am generally always at the resistance caps because people just love their Barrier Destinies -- and that's on top of thermal shields which are also popular (I rarely see sonic Defs/Trollers/Corrs anymore).  But even then, if you are rarely at the resist cap on your leagues... that's still not an indication that FF needs to have resistance added in. 

 

The beauty of this game is that there are SO many different options and ways to do things.  Sometimes, you're gonna get all Def and no Resist.  Other times, you'll get neither and straight up reactive healing.  Other times, you'll get very little Def, Resist, Healing, and get a TON of debuffing.  We shouldn't change FF just because you may have an experience where no one else is giving you resist buffs.  ...Hire or make toons that do give resist buffs, then!  🙂