Development Questions

[Dr. Voltage]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the limitations of development, if any?  Can the developers make new animations and graphics? Or even design new full body models? I understand that the original 3D editing software used is defunct, is Autodesk still compatible with CoH, or is recycling all that can be really done.

[Albion]

8 minutes ago, Sejanus said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the limitations of development, if any?  Can the developers make new animations and graphics? Or even design new full body models? I understand that the original 3D editing software used is defunct, is Autodesk still compatible with CoH, or is recycling all that can be really done.

From my humble layman position observing them discussing ideas now and then, I think the intent and the projects are there, but we lack more graphic artists, Naomi is an extremely talented one but can't do everything, and as we saw in ASF, existing assets are pushed to do new neat things, there is not a lack of a will either, Devs work even a bit too much.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Albion

[Dr. Voltage]

7 minutes ago, Albion said:

From my humble layman position observing them discussing ideas now and then, I think the intent and the projects are there, but we lack more graphic artists, Naomi is an extremely talented one but can't do everything, and as we saw in ASF, existing assets are pushed to do new neat things, there is not a lack of a will either, Devs work even a bit too much.

I didn't mean to insinuate anything about the Devs at all, just wanted to know if there is any actual technical limitations, not so much manpower or time limitations. 

[Glacier Peak]

I like to think of it like trying to make a movie by recording over and editing the same VHS tape. Then years later, you want to make some scenes better, so you re-shoot with modern digital cameras and the only way to insert those new frames in to the original is to cut the film negatives out of the VHS tape and then glue on the new scenes. And nobody has a VHS player anymore. 

[Albion]

24 minutes ago, Sejanus said:

I didn't mean to insinuate anything about the Devs at all, just wanted to know if there is any actual technical limitations, not so much manpower or time limitations. 

Yes i did got your question, not thinking you implied anything, just wanted to get across my point of view that they can deal with the technical incongruencies mostly (they are even unraveling the awful codding of the past and putting down a way more neat approach) but the crucial thing that delays them seems to be their numbers.

[Dr. Voltage]

2 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I like to think of it like trying to make a movie by recording over and editing the same VHS tape. Then years later, you want to make some scenes better, so you re-shoot with modern digital cameras and the only way to insert those new frames in to the original is to cut the film negatives out of the VHS tape and then glue on the new scenes. And nobody has a VHS player anymore. 

I'm doing my best with that metaphor, lol, but I'm assuming that'd mean with those "modern digital cameras", new models could be made?

 

For example, Battalion. They're basically the Dominion from Star Trek, but transdimensional(?) and in thick Impervium plated battle armor, akin to Rikti suits. I would love to teach myself some Autodesk if CoH is still compatible. Because it's not the cheapest program in the world, lol.

[battlewraith]

The coh models are extremely simple. Making models of that quality should be fairly trivial for pretty much any current respectable polygonal modeling software. 

The industry standard generic 3d file is OBJ, which was around before coh launched. If the coh engine can use obj (or other proprietary formats) then introducing new models should be easy. If coh uses some esoteric file type, then you would need a translation app to convert the file type. 

 

I suspect the biggest hurdle would be pinning the new meshes to the existing skeletal animation system/patterns in a way that various moves still worked properly. Also adjusting costume pieces, weapons, etc. to the new shapes to avoid crazy clipping.

[Dr. Voltage]

2 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

The coh models are extremely simple. Making models of that quality should be fairly trivial for pretty much any current respectable polygonal modeling software. 

The industry standard generic 3d file is OBJ, which was around before coh launched. If the coh engine can use obj (or other proprietary formats) then introducing new models should be easy. If coh uses some esoteric file type, then you would need a translation app to convert the file type. 

 

I suspect the biggest hurdle would be pinning the new meshes to the existing skeletal animation system/patterns in a way that various moves still worked properly. Also adjusting costume pieces, weapons, etc. to the new shapes to avoid crazy clipping.

That makes sense, thank you!  Does that mean animations are done through the engine specifically? So new models seem simple enough minus time and people, but maybe animations require engine editing? Just making calculated guesses here. I want to say that graphics like power animations were done through another modeling software, maybe? I was reading the lore transcripts and a dev mentioned warshades took like 23 layers for a single power, lol.

[battlewraith]

The game engine is typically responsible for a variety of things--lighting, rendering, collision detection, simulating physics, etc. Game engines also generally have tool sets to help develop content for the game. So animation may be done in the engine, or produced in an animation package and brought over in a format that the game engine can use. Characters may be animated by canned animations that the game is cycling through (meaning the mesh is going through a series of deformations over time) or they may have skeletons in them that are actively deforming the mesh. I suspect the latter is the case with coh based on how enemies ragdoll when you knock them around--seems like collision physics being applied to a skeleton.

 

Powers could involve some sort of modeling or they could be 2d animated sprites, or both.

[A Cat]

6 hours ago, Sejanus said:

I'm doing my best with that metaphor, lol, but I'm assuming that'd mean with those "modern digital cameras", new models could be made?

 

For example, Battalion. They're basically the Dominion from Star Trek, but transdimensional(?) and in thick Impervium plated battle armor, akin to Rikti suits. I would love to teach myself some Autodesk if CoH is still compatible. Because it's not the cheapest program in the world, lol.

Afaik they're not trans-dimensional. They're just a collection of aliens. I don't know Star Trek well. So to use a millennial comparison, they're like the Covenant from Halo iirc. The version from the Rikti dimension was less powerful and the Rikti trounced them. 

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Afaik they're not trans-dimensional. They're just a collection of aliens. I don't know Star Trek well.

 

The Dominion was an empire in the Gamma quadrant, created and controlled by shape-shifting beings known as The Founders.  The Founders created the Dominion after spreading out across that quadrant and discovering that "solids", humanoids who couldn't alter their form (the Founders were a gelatinous species), distrusted them and frequently killed or drove changelings (individual members of the species) off of their planets.  They genetically altered the Vorta, a primitive monkey-like species, to act as their lieutenants (controlled through indoctrination, cloning and genetically imprinted belief that the Founders were gods), and created the Jem'Hadar, a militant species, to function as shock troops (which they further controlled through short lifespans (typically less than 20 years (they grew from babies to maturity in a matter of days)) and addiction to a chemical known as Ketracel-White (which regulated Jem'Hadar biological functions.  without it, they died slowly and painfully), and took control of the Gamma quadrant, establishing their dominance through intimidation.

 

Having the ability to adopt any form, any likeness, whether it was an emormous, terrifying creature or a two-dimensional surface, or even raw plasma, meant they could sow dissent or monitor politics on any planet in the quadrant, with as few as a single changeling.  They were masters of subterfuge and had millions of Jem'Hadar at their disposal, so they could take over a planet, or destroy all life on it, with extreme ease.   They committed genocide to set examples of what happened when they were disobeyed or their "offer" to join the Dominion was refused.  They weren't a nice species.  Manipulative, scheming, cold, ruthless and thoroughly determined to impose their sense of order on everyone, everywhere, with themselves at the top.

[A Cat]

31 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

The Dominion was an empire in the Gamma quadrant, created and controlled by shape-shifting beings known as The Founders.  The Founders created the Dominion after spreading out across that quadrant and discovering that "solids", humanoids who couldn't alter their form (the Founders were a gelatinous species), distrusted them and frequently killed or drove changelings (individual members of the species) off of their planets.  They genetically altered the Vorta, a primitive monkey-like species, to act as their lieutenants (controlled through indoctrination, cloning and genetically imprinted belief that the Founders were gods), and created the Jem'Hadar, a militant species, to function as shock troops (which they further controlled through short lifespans (typically less than 20 years (they grew from babies to maturity in a matter of days)) and addiction to a chemical known as Ketracel-White (which regulated Jem'Hadar biological functions.  without it, they died slowly and painfully), and took control of the Gamma quadrant, establishing their dominance through intimidation.

 

Having the ability to adopt any form, any likeness, whether it was an emormous, terrifying creature or a two-dimensional surface, or even raw plasma, meant they could sow dissent or monitor politics on any planet in the quadrant, with as few as a single changeling.  They were masters of subterfuge and had millions of Jem'Hadar at their disposal, so they could take over a planet, or destroy all life on it, with extreme ease.   They committed genocide to set examples of what happened when they were disobeyed or their "offer" to join the Dominion was refused.  They weren't a nice species.  Manipulative, scheming, cold, ruthless and thoroughly determined to impose their sense of order on everyone, everywhere, with themselves at the top.

Man, what's their problem? I'd just turn into a hot version the various species and pick up chicks. 

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Man, what's their problem? I'd just turn into a hot version the various species and pick up chicks. 

 

Changelings reproduce by budding, essentially, and they have a "Great Link", which is basically all of them puddled together and intermingling, so they have little sense of personal identity.  They struggle to understand biological functions of humanoids, like knocking boots, and attach no emotional meaning, such as romance, to contact with one another.  Scientifically, they recognize the role of sex, but since they don't need to do it, and they spend so little time outside of the Great Link, they don't grasp its significance in other contexts than reproduction.

 

Odo (wonderfully played by the late René Auberjonois), who was one of "the Hundred", a group of "baby" changelings scattered across the Gamma quadrant by the Founders so they could expand their empire (they assumed all of the Hundred would experience the same prejudice they did and return (some kind of genetic programming which made them want to go home, to the Omarian Nebula), bringing with them knowledge of new worlds to which the Dominion could bring "order"), happened to pass through the wormhole linking Gamma to Alpha, and grew up amongst humanoids, so he learned to attach emotional meaning to physical contact, he learned about sex and how to engage in it, he developed friendships and even fell in love a couple of times.  Cut off from his people, not even knowing there were others like him in the galaxy, he became far more like humanoids than the Founders did.  This plays a key role in ending the Dominion War when the series reaches its conclusion, and ending the Dominion itself.  Odo brings "humanity" to his people.

[Troo]

40 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Man, what's their problem? I'd just turn into a hot version the various species and pick up chicks. 

 

silly 'solid'