Too strong

[Gobbledigook]

What i see is a few disgruntled players banging on about how broken they are and a lot of players saying how awesome they are and how much fun they are.

[Gobbledigook]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Everything is absolutely just fine when you don't give a shit about numerical balance.

There is more to enjoyable gameplay than mathematics and perfect balance will never be achieved.  Any game in history could probably tell you that

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

What i see is a few disgruntled players banging on about how broken they are and a lot of players saying how awesome they are and how much fun they are.

 

Why can't I be allowed the same fun with my emp/nrg defender?

 

1 minute ago, Gobbledegook said:

There is more to enjoyable gameplay than mathematics and perfect balance will never be achieved.  Any game in history could probably tell you that

 

You can have both. Any game in history could probably tell you that.

[Gobbledigook]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Why can't I be allowed the same fun with my emp/nrg defender?

 

 

You can have both. Any game in history could probably tell you that.

That is a support AT. They bring much to the team already. But i am not against them getting a small dps buff.

Tankers fight mobs. Defenders buff/heal/debuff for teams whilst doing as much dps as they can.

 

No you can't,  You will have more chance of Bob Dylan turning up for afternoon tea than getting perfect balance. 😛

[Infinitum]

31 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Every Tanker gets three attacks by level 4. Most have their fourth attack at level 16 (assuming you did not go Fighting pool). Super Strength is an outlier, getting the miserably useless Hand Clap at level 16. Not sure it should be held up as the exemplar of the Tanker experience. While Brutes will typically have two more attacks by 16th level, those are also the least experiencing demanding levels for one to play through and also levels one is not likely to be turning up the difficulty on, unlike the later levels on a Tanker.

 

EM tankers don't get ET until T9 and AOE is just decent on tankers - we all know what makes EM shine these days.

 

Basically Brute's can be fully kitted out the same or sooner because they get all of the attacks sooner and usually the T9 defensive power is crap anyway - so the usually peak around the same time a tanker does anyway.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

EM tankers don't get ET until T9 and AOE is just decent on tankers - we all know what makes EM shine these days.

 

Basically Brute's can be fully kitted out the same or sooner because they get all of the attacks sooner and usually the T9 defensive power is crap anyway - so the usually peak around the same time a tanker does anyway.

 

Ok. When can the shield/nrg/soul tank push diff to +4/x8 with zero chance of death vs the brute pushing to the same level when both are using nothing but SOs?

 

Which one levels faster from 1 to 50?

 

And if the tank wins, why does it suddenly not matter? Or, rather, why does it not matter at all?

Edited August 11, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Infinitum]

20 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Everything is absolutely just fine when you don't give a shit about numerical balance.

 

There isn't much about this game that is balanced perfectly. There are way more egregious outliers than the dmg buff tankers received.

 

It's just something to accept and enjoy as they make whatever changes they can make.

[Erratic1]

7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

EM tankers don't get ET until T9 and AOE is just decent on tankers - we all know what makes EM shine these days.

 

Basically Brute's can be fully kitted out the same or sooner because they get all of the attacks sooner and usually the T9 defensive power is crap anyway - so the usually peak around the same time a tanker does anyway.

 

The discussion was about more than just EM Tankers.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

It's just something to accept and enjoy as they make whatever changes they can make.

 

No thanks. I don't accept bad decisions. Doesn't mean I have a snowball's chance in hell of fixing them, but it doesn't mean I should just lay back and enjoy the offense. I'd rather bring the problem to light in the hopes of change.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Ok. When can the shield/nrg/soul tank push diff to +4/x8 with zero chance of death vs the brute pushing to the same level when both are using nothing but SOs?

 

Which one levels faster from 1 to 50?

 

And if the tank wins, why does it suddenly not matter? Or, rather, why does it not matter at all?

 

There is a lot of random luck rolled into a haul like that for either one.  Not to mention, skill mistakes, fatigue, and potentially unrecognized bias.

 

I dunno. I wouldn't want to sink the time into a test like that honestly.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No thanks. I don't accept bad decisions. Doesn't mean I have a snowball's chance in hell of fixing them, but it doesn't mean I should just lay back and enjoy the offense. I'd rather bring the problem to light in the hopes of change.

 

That's the equivalent of getting upset at a tear in the airplanes seat when the wing is falling off though.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Infinitum said:

I wouldn't want to sink the time into a test like that honestly.

 

Course not. You are in the camp that enjoys the benefits. Why would you want to spend effort showing those benefits are ill-gotten and wrong?

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

The discussion was about more than just EM Tankers.

 

It was just one example - mainly because the discussion started around EM equipped characters 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Infinitum said:

That's the equivalent of getting upset at a tear in the airplanes seat when the wing is falling off though.

 

LOL. Ok, that was a pretty good analogy.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Course not. You are in the camp that enjoys the benefits. Why would you want to spend effort showing those benefits are ill-gotten and wrong?

 

Because there are more than a handful of other ways that are easier and prove otherwise.

[Erratic1]

23 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

What i see is a few disgruntled players banging on about how broken they are and a lot of players saying how awesome they are and how much fun they are.

 

What I see is repeated threads going on long binges about Tanker godliness but then suddenly when someone mentions balance (especially in light of Brutes) it is suddenly, "Woe is me, I have to trudge uphill both ways in snow drifts a mile high to eke out just barely passable damage."

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

I will say this....Tabkers are much more played and more popular than they were. So based on that the develipers got it right. 

 

It is just a shame that you can not see beyond the maths.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Gobbledegook said:

I will say this....Tabkers are much more played and more popular than they were. So based on that the develipers got it right. 

 

It is just a shame that you can not see beyond the maths.

 

Tankers are much more played and enjoyed because they've become the OP melee AT that so many that don't give a shit about balance hoped for. It's just a shame that so many care more about being OPAF than they do AT balance.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Gobbledegook said:

I will say this....Tabkers are much more played and more popular than they were. So based on that the develipers got it right. 

 

It is just a shame that you can not see beyond the maths.

 

This. Tankers we're pretty much pigeon bombed before the change by most of the population outside of the invul/SS crowd for obvious reasons.  Now they are more fun and have a more viable role again to at least be competitive.

[Erratic1]

1 minute ago, Gobbledegook said:

I will say this....Tabkers are much more played and more popular than they were. So based on that the develipers got it right. 

 

It is just a shame that you can not see beyond the maths.

 

So if Developers released a class which could push a button every second and make every mob within 50' instantly die, I am pretty sure it would be popular. 

 

That popularity would be due to being overpowered, not "getting it right".

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Tankers are much more played and enjoyed because they've become the OP melee AT that so many that don't give a shit about balance hoped for. It's just a shame that so many care more about being OPAF than they do AT balance.

 

I would love to see a new statistics report to see where they are now in comparison.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

I would love to see a new statistics report to see where they are now in comparison.

 

Been asking for that data dump for a while now. Find it very interesting that it hasn't been forthcoming.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Erratic1 said:

 

So if Developers released a class which could push a button every second and make every mob within 50' instantly die, I am pretty sure it would be popular. 

 

That popularity would be due to being overpowered, not "getting it right".

 

That's not a very good argument because its premise isn't factual.

 

There isn't much different between Brute and tanker gameplay if built right with normal content.

 

But usually people gravitate towards the shiny and new.  Which is/was tankers.

 

Just to push the limits in a new way - doesn't mean they are an outlier.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Been asking for that data dump for a while now. Find it very interesting that it hasn't been forthcoming.

 

Yeah I don't get it either.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

if built right with normal content.

 

Which is?