Invul/Kinetic Melee. Tank.

[Golden Azrael]

Ok.  I'm a Sonic Sonic Defender.  (Booo....what you doing 'ere?  This is for Tanks.  Get out of here before we throw your can of baked bean HPs out of here...  LOL.  YOu can't even self buff...*guffaws.)

 

*Attempts dignity.  Er.  So, I come in peace.

 

I notice there are no Invul/Kinetic Tank builds?

 

Anybody got any swing for the fence ideas for such a build.  I hear Kin' Melee is a bit under performing.

 

But can we make it great again?  Elevate the attacks?  Dam' the procs?  FFeedbacks to power the chain saw rotation and bring the buffs/debuffs around again?

 

Build ideas gratefully received from the Tanking community.

 

Azrael.

[Psyonico]

I've got a few /kin melee toons, but not an Invulnerability/kin.  I personally like kinetic melee.  I think the reason it is considered underperforming is animation times are long for the damage the powers do.  I don't think that is something that is fixable by just slotting procs.

 

If we could see a couple of powers get their animation time reduced a bit, it would be a strong set.

[BrandX]

After some of my own testing...I got KM/BIO Scrapper down to 1:40 pylon time.  So, I'd say the damage is pretty good with Kinetic Melee.

 

Figure for Tanks, I don't imagine it being to different in terms of the other sets for Tanks.

 

Rely on the first 3 attacks for normal single target.  For a tanker, I would imagine that DPS wise, only need to use CS on hard targets.  It's animations generally to long for regular missions.  It also doesn't have the crit to get Siphon Power back faster.

 

So, you'll rely on recharge for that to help the DPS (that said, it's not like tanks are generally considered for DPS and INV isn't the top Primary for DPS either) get Power Siphon back quick, which is basically giving the Tank 20 seconds of Rage.

 

Skip Focused Burst and take Gloom for the range attack and help that ST DPS, if you can. 

[Admiral Amaze]

17 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

Ok.  I'm a Sonic Sonic Defender.  (Booo....what you doing 'ere?  This is for Tanks.  Get out of here before we throw your can of baked bean HPs out of here...  LOL.  YOu can't even self buff...*guffaws.)

 

*Attempts dignity.  Er.  So, I come in peace.

 

I notice there are no Invul/Kinetic Tank builds?

 

Anybody got any swing for the fence ideas for such a build.  I hear Kin' Melee is a bit under performing.

 

But can we make it great again?  Elevate the attacks?  Dam' the procs?  FFeedbacks to power the chain saw rotation and bring the buffs/debuffs around again?

 

Build ideas gratefully received from the Tanking community.

 

Azrael.

 

I Have a Bio/KM Tank, KM Just "Feels" clunky. He's a perfectly capable tank, the KM I'm sure doesn't do much worse than my plethora of other tanks, but it "Feels" significantly worse.

[Cutter]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's not the animation times (at least not all of them), but rather when in the animation the attack hits that causes KM to feel slow. Like all the hits are at the very end of the animation instead of somewhere in the middle. The first 3 attacks have remarkably fast animations (0.83s, 1.07s, 1.2s), but they all feel slow and disjointed/disconnected because the hit comes late.

[BrandX]

On 9/26/2022 at 11:15 AM, Cutter said:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's not the animation times (at least not all of them), but rather when in the animation the attack hits that causes KM to feel slow. Like all the hits are at the very end of the animation instead of somewhere in the middle. The first 3 attacks have remarkably fast animations (0.83s, 1.07s, 1.2s), but they all feel slow and disjointed/disconnected because the hit comes late.

 

I think it's everything else but the first three attacks.

 

Burst the PBAOE is one of the slowest of melee PBAOE.  Not by much, but it can feel like it.  Personally, I'm okay with this one tho.

 

Focused Burst.  This one just needs work.  Honestly, they need to make it so players are choosing this over a Snipe, sadly, that just won't happen unless it starts following Snipe rules.  Which may work for Tankers/Brutes who don't have a Snipe, but I can't imagine them giving that to a Scrapper or Stalker, unless it stops them from being able to select a second snipe.  Hard to know what to do to make this be equal to what a Snipe can do for a Scrapper/Stalker.

 

Repulsing Torrent another kinda slow AOE that does KB, so that's going keep people away.

 

Concentrated Strike really just needs at least .3 seconds taken off that animation.  Put it in line with Total Focus animation time.  As someone who's played Energy Melee a lot, I can notice the difference.  There's a reason I save this attack for hard targets I need to dps down, and not the lower ranks.

[Cutter]

3 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I think it's everything else but the first three attacks.

 

Burst the PBAOE is one of the slowest of melee PBAOE.  Not by much, but it can feel like it.  Personally, I'm okay with this one tho.

 

Focused Burst.  This one just needs work.  Honestly, they need to make it so players are choosing this over a Snipe, sadly, that just won't happen unless it starts following Snipe rules.  Which may work for Tankers/Brutes who don't have a Snipe, but I can't imagine them giving that to a Scrapper or Stalker, unless it stops them from being able to select a second snipe.  Hard to know what to do to make this be equal to what a Snipe can do for a Scrapper/Stalker.

 

Repulsing Torrent another kinda slow AOE that does KB, so that's going keep people away.

 

Concentrated Strike really just needs at least .3 seconds taken off that animation.  Put it in line with Total Focus animation time.  As someone who's played Energy Melee a lot, I can notice the difference.  There's a reason I save this attack for hard targets I need to dps down, and not the lower ranks.

Yeah I probably should have clarified my comment to the first 3 attacks. Significantly, both of my /KM tanks take only those + Burst for attacks, which is where my comments were coming from.

 

Burst is on the high end but not the highest for PBAOE (pretty sure that honour goes to Spine Burst at 3s?) and Focused Burst is faster than Impale at least but there's a really small sample pool for ranged attacks in melee sets (and I'm ignoring Claws over in the corner 🙂 ). 100% agree on Repulsing Torrent and Concentrated Strike needing some kinda help. I'm still gonna come back to the animations not helping the set's cause either. With many other sets, the "hitting" part of the attack either happens earlier in, or throughout, the animation, while KM is all windup with the hit at the very end. Style over substance and all that. Not sure what can be done to manage that tho as I assume it's all baked into the code spaghetti...

[BrandX]

31 minutes ago, Cutter said:

Yeah I probably should have clarified my comment to the first 3 attacks. Significantly, both of my /KM tanks take only those + Burst for attacks, which is where my comments were coming from.

 

Burst is on the high end but not the highest for PBAOE (pretty sure that honour goes to Spine Burst at 3s?) and Focused Burst is faster than Impale at least but there's a really small sample pool for ranged attacks in melee sets (and I'm ignoring Claws over in the corner 🙂 ). 100% agree on Repulsing Torrent and Concentrated Strike needing some kinda help. I'm still gonna come back to the animations not helping the set's cause either. With many other sets, the "hitting" part of the attack either happens earlier in, or throughout, the animation, while KM is all windup with the hit at the very end. Style over substance and all that. Not sure what can be done to manage that tho as I assume it's all baked into the code spaghetti...

 

That's why I mention, I just save Concentrated Strike for the likes of AVs for the ST DPS, but on a Scrapper that also resets Siphon Power.  It may just be best to go three first attacks and Gloom.

[Ringo]

Is there a writeup on how Power Siphon works on the different ATs?  And I guess Concentrated Strike as well? 

[BrandX]

10 minutes ago, Ringo said:

Is there a writeup on how Power Siphon works on the different ATs?  And I guess Concentrated Strike as well? 

 

Well, for how it works it seems to basically be a small version of Fury.  Click it and keep attacking.  You'll want to focus on the KM attacks as the Epic attacks don't give you PS stacks.

 

That's the same for all except Stalkers who get Build Up instead.

 

I know for Scrappers using CS to get the crit for PS to automatically recharge it works out for better DPS.  It doesn't have a chance to reset PS for Tankers, so I'm thinking it'd be better to rely on tier 1, 2 and 3 attacks and Gloom, which on a Scrapper w/ Snipe, worked out pretty well.

 

I'm thinking CS on a tank may be skippable unless they actually take off some animation time (like .3 seconds I'm thinking).

[Hyperstrike]

Spoiler

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Inv-Kin: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (3) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (3) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (5) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (5) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (7) Gladiator's Armor - Recharge/Resist
  

Level 1: Quick Strike

• (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage
• (7) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge
• (9) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (9) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (11) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)
  

Level 2: Temp Invulnerability

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (13) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
  

Level 4: Smashing Blow

• (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
• (16) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime
• (16) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (17) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (17) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (19) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb
  

Level 6: Dull Pain

• (A) Preventive_Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
  

Level 8: Resist Elements

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (19) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (21) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (21) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 10: Taunt

• (A) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
  

Level 12: Unyielding

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (23) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (23) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (23) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
  

Level 14: Resist Energies

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (27) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 16: Repulsing Torrent

• (A) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (27) Superior Frozen Blast - Damage/Endurance
• (29) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (29) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (31) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (31) Superior Frozen Blast - RechargeTime/Chance for Immobilize
  

Level 18: Invincibility

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (33) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
• (33) Reactive_Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
• (33) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception
  

Level 20: Power Siphon

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
• (34) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
  

Level 22: Kick

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 24: Tough

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (34) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (34) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (36) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
  

Level 26: Tough Hide

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 28: Burst

• (A) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
• (37) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (37) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (37) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (39) Superior Avalanche - RechargeTime/Chance for Knockdown
  

Level 30: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 32: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 35: Focused Burst

• (A) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
• (40) Superior Winter's Bite - Damage/RechargeTime
• (40) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (40) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (42) Superior Winter's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (42) Superior Winter's Bite - RechargeTime/Chance for -Speed & -Recharge
  

Level 38: Concentrated Strike

• (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
• (42) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
• (43) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
• (43) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (43) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (45) Superior Blistering Cold - RechargeTime/Chance for Hold
  

Level 41: Char

• (A) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold
• (45) Superior Entomb - Hold/RechargeTime
• (45) Superior Entomb - Endurance/RechargeTime
• (46) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance
• (46) Superior Entomb - Accuracy/Hold/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (46) Superior Entomb - RechargeTime/Chance for Chance for +Absorb
  

Level 44: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (48) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 47: Melt Armor

• (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
  

Level 49: Fly

• (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
  

Level 1: Disintegrating

Level 1: Brawl

 

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• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Gauntlet

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Run Speed IO
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Interrupt Reduction IO
  

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Run Speed IO
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
• (15) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
• (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (16) Performance Shifter - EndMod
  

Level 50: Agility Core Paragon

Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
------------

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Hyperstrike