Rename/Rework Dual Blades: Dual Wield

[Rudra]

35 minutes ago, keyguardactive said:

I did wonder about that. I've seen you be hard line about weapon sets having to have weapons, but people can be contradictory. Live your best life. 

 

I would probably roll a dual blade scrapper if I could use batons or escrima sticks instead of swords. Just feels more like a thing I would enjoy playing. 

I'm not being self-contradictory in that regard though. I am against weapon sets having no weapon options. I am not against weapon sets having more weapon options. And integrated weapons are still weapon options. That's neither here nor there in regards to this topic though. The OP is asking for more weapon options, and I definitely support that.

[biostem]

I'd love it if they could take the existing weapon models and give us tintable, translucent wireframe versions, to represent energy/hard-light constructs...

[Stormwalker]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'd love it if they could take the existing weapon models and give us tintable, translucent wireframe versions, to represent energy/hard-light constructs...

 

This would be pretty cool.  I'd like that a lot.

 

Another thing I'd wish for (but which is admittedly a less realistic possibility than your idea) is to have an alternate redraw animation where your weapon appears in your hand with teleport fx (even though it would need to take just as long as the conventional redraw to not be unbalancing, it'd still look cool).  Mostly because as a Phantasy Star series fan, I like the whole idea of nanotransitors and being able to just have your weapons appear in your hand when you need them.  Unfortunately, I suspect that the amount of code that would be required to do something like that would be even more than was required for sheathed weapons (which is still one of my very favorite additions HC has made to the game).

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Stormwalker said:

 

This would be pretty cool.  I'd like that a lot.

 

Another thing I'd wish for (but which is admittedly a less realistic possibility than your idea) is to have an alternate redraw animation where your weapon appears in your hand with teleport fx (even though it would need to take just as long as the conventional redraw to not be unbalancing, it'd still look cool).  Mostly because as a Phantasy Star series fan, I like the whole idea of nanotransitors and being able to just have your weapons appear in your hand when you need them.  Unfortunately, I suspect that the amount of code that would be required to do something like that would be even more than was required for sheathed weapons (which is still one of my very favorite additions HC has made to the game).

That's just how I viewed weapon draw before we got sheathed options. I was teleporting the weapon to me from whatever extra-dimensional storage system I used or was manifesting the weapon.

[Frozen Burn]

2 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

I don't think that's a valid complaint considering that other weapon sets have examples of things that don't really fit the damage type of the set.

 

Yes, Titan Weapons does this - smashing damage even though you can wield a sword or a blunt object.  And this has always bothered me every time wield my TW sword.  But just because there is precedent in this one case, doesn't mean we have to rework DB to accommodate.  Still, I feel it's easier to just create a separate Dual War Mace/Club set - everyone gets what they want.

[TheMoneyMaker]

33 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

And this has always bothered me every time wield my TW sword.  But just because there is precedent in this one case, doesn't mean we have to rework DB to accommodate.  Still, I feel it's easier to just create a separate Dual War Mace/Club set - everyone gets what they want.

You missed my previous post, then.  It is not one precedent. There are several examples.

 

Battle Axe

• Infernal Axe has a fiery aura but deals no fire damage.
• Romulus's nictus-infused axe deals no negative damage.
• Rikti Axe doesn't deal energy damage.

Broad Sword and Katana 

• Greater Fire Sword is identical to the fire sword in fire melee attacks, but it does not deal fire damage.
• Greater Fire Sword (SHOULD be labeled as Greater Ice Sword) is identical to the ice sword but deals no cold damage.
• Rusted Blade does not deal toxic damage.
• Carnival of Shadows Rapier has an energy aura but deals no energy or negative damage.
• PX-17N is an energy blade but deals lethal damage.
• VK-99 Event Horizon is literally a tube --not blade-- of energy but still only deals lethal damage.
• Romulus Nictus sword does not deal negative damage.
• Fire and Ice - Elemental is a vaguely sword-shaped flame, not even an edge like the swords in the Fire Melee power set.  Lethal damage only.

Claws

• RG-Blades are composed of energy but only deal lethal damage.

Staff:

• Vanguard MAGI Staff has energy swirling around it's end but only deals smashing damage.
• Tech Knight Staff has an orb of electricity sparking at the end but only deals smashing damage.

Stone Melee

• You can choose between standard Original stone, Lava, and Crystal, but choosing Lava does not add any fire damage.

War Mace

• War Mace, Barbarian Mace, and Jack in Irons Club has big spikes (way bigger than the standard studded mace) protruding from it but deals no lethal damage.
• Tech Mace is a cube with flanges sticking out and arcs of electricity, but it only deals smashing damage.
• Carnival of Light/War/Vengeance mace has blades surrounding a magical radiance, but it does not deal lethal or energy or any other kind of damage but smashing.
• Lava Mallet, like Stone Melee, does not change the damage type.
• Vanguard MAGI Mace, like the Staff, does not change the damage type.
• Power Maul has vibrant electricity arcing all over the head of the mace but deals no energy damage.
• Tech Knight Mace, like the Staff, has a ball of electricity sparking at the end but still only deals smashing damage.

 

Add to that the Dual Pistols change that added crossbows even though the dual pistols only shoot bullets and not crossbow bolts... and we have various beam rifles in the assault rifle category letting them shoot bullets, and bullet type firearms in the beam rifle category. Why do bang bang guns shoot zap-zaps and zap guns go BLAM BLAM?

 

Because we can all suspend our disbelief enough to have fun with things and come up with our own explanations for why things work the way they do.

 

If someone wants to wield dual blunt weapons and chooses to ignore the fact that mechanically they are dealing lethal damage, then let them enjoy that.

 

And you can feel that it's easier to just create another set, but until you are doing the work programming the game, your feeling holds no real weight.  Personally, I feel like it would be a whole lot easier to add weapon models to an existing set than it would be to copy & paste an existing set, change all of the damage for each attack from one type to another, strip away all instances of allowed weapon models, then add new weapon models to it, and then on top of that alter the dialogue in power names and descriptions to reflect the changes made.

 

Sorry, the "I feel it would be easier" argument just doesn't hold any water.

[Frozen Burn]

4 hours ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

You missed my previous post, then.  It is not one precedent. There are several examples.

 

Battle Axe

• Infernal Axe has a fiery aura but deals no fire damage.
• Romulus's nictus-infused axe deals no negative damage.
• Rikti Axe doesn't deal energy damage.

Broad Sword and Katana 

• Greater Fire Sword is identical to the fire sword in fire melee attacks, but it does not deal fire damage.
• Greater Fire Sword (SHOULD be labeled as Greater Ice Sword) is identical to the ice sword but deals no cold damage.
• Rusted Blade does not deal toxic damage.
• Carnival of Shadows Rapier has an energy aura but deals no energy or negative damage.
• PX-17N is an energy blade but deals lethal damage.
• VK-99 Event Horizon is literally a tube --not blade-- of energy but still only deals lethal damage.
• Romulus Nictus sword does not deal negative damage.
• Fire and Ice - Elemental is a vaguely sword-shaped flame, not even an edge like the swords in the Fire Melee power set.  Lethal damage only.

Claws

• RG-Blades are composed of energy but only deal lethal damage.

Staff:

• Vanguard MAGI Staff has energy swirling around it's end but only deals smashing damage.
• Tech Knight Staff has an orb of electricity sparking at the end but only deals smashing damage.

Stone Melee

• You can choose between standard Original stone, Lava, and Crystal, but choosing Lava does not add any fire damage.

War Mace

• War Mace, Barbarian Mace, and Jack in Irons Club has big spikes (way bigger than the standard studded mace) protruding from it but deals no lethal damage.
• Tech Mace is a cube with flanges sticking out and arcs of electricity, but it only deals smashing damage.
• Carnival of Light/War/Vengeance mace has blades surrounding a magical radiance, but it does not deal lethal or energy or any other kind of damage but smashing.
• Lava Mallet, like Stone Melee, does not change the damage type.
• Vanguard MAGI Mace, like the Staff, does not change the damage type.
• Power Maul has vibrant electricity arcing all over the head of the mace but deals no energy damage.
• Tech Knight Mace, like the Staff, has a ball of electricity sparking at the end but still only deals smashing damage.

 

Add to that the Dual Pistols change that added crossbows even though the dual pistols only shoot bullets and not crossbow bolts... and we have various beam rifles in the assault rifle category letting them shoot bullets, and bullet type firearms in the beam rifle category. Why do bang bang guns shoot zap-zaps and zap guns go BLAM BLAM?

 

Because we can all suspend our disbelief enough to have fun with things and come up with our own explanations for why things work the way they do.

 

If someone wants to wield dual blunt weapons and chooses to ignore the fact that mechanically they are dealing lethal damage, then let them enjoy that.

 

And you can feel that it's easier to just create another set, but until you are doing the work programming the game, your feeling holds no real weight.  Personally, I feel like it would be a whole lot easier to add weapon models to an existing set than it would be to copy & paste an existing set, change all of the damage for each attack from one type to another, strip away all instances of allowed weapon models, then add new weapon models to it, and then on top of that alter the dialogue in power names and descriptions to reflect the changes made.

 

Sorry, the "I feel it would be easier" argument just doesn't hold any water.

 

Wow.  Seriously?  Having a bad day?  Need to vent more?  lol  🙂  Sorry if my posts crawled under your skin for whatever reason.  🙂 

 

However, you're missing the main the point - Axes and blades, despite having other costume effects that might suggest otherwise, still do lethal damage - which still fits as they are at the core a bladed weapon.  Clubs and maces that have fancy effects, still, at the core, do smashing damage.  Wanting the extra / secondary energy, fire, ice, etc damage on top of the primary lethal or smashing holds no argument here as we're talking straight up smashing damage (all clubs) versus lethal damage (all blades).  Otherwise, each costume piece would have to have it's own powerset depending on whatever secondary effects it might appear to have - and yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath for that.  

 

I stated in my first post - I'm no Dev.  I have no clue what it takes to create a set or rework one which is why is stated I "feel" like it would be easier.  So, obviously, of course, without a doubt, feeling something might be easier clearly has no weight.  Duh.  Don't really have to point that out.  However, in general, reworking things tends to be more buggy than just creating something new from scratch.  This is just common sense knowledge.  But, in this case I could absolutely be totally wrong. 

 

Just giving us new costume options for holding clubs in the Dual Blades set?  Ok, fine, whatever.  Yeah, that would be easier than creating a new set - i would imagine, i really have no clue as I'm not a Dev.  Maybe it's not?  But it's also not optimal as again, we're faced with bludgeoning items in a lethal set, like with TW having lethal items in a smashing set.  Many people posted how they didn't like that, and with OP also adding in that they wanted DB to be reworked and renamed to accommodate this request for dual clubs, it makes sense to create a new set (dual clubs) that does smashing - so it then makes us all happy we have it, we all have a new set to play with, and it helps us all to not have to suspend our disbelief as much.  Versus... just new weapon skins on an old set and we have to suspend our disbelief even more.  

 

I'm not knocking yours or anyone's opinions here as I want Dual Clubs too!  I was just offering a different solution to reworking an existing set by giving us something new that could make all parties happy.  Don't like it - totally fine and valid.  But personally, I'd rather have a new set to play with instead of respecing my DB toons for whatever changes happen in the rework - you know there will be some - and this adds to the overall "easier" for not just Devs, but for us players too.  And if it's just adding clubs and maces to Dual Blades costume editor?  Well, fine - but others can enjoy it, I won't.  

 

Peace.  

[Jiro Ito]

I'd be down for a new set of dual-wielding, smashing-damage clubs, especially if the combo mechanic were removed.