Infiltration Needs a Bonus Power

[Premmy]

Concealment was Converted to a Proper Travel power with the Change From Invisibility to Infiltration.

Great decision, love it to death, perfectly serves almost all my Parkour Using characters.

I've been Able to Convert all my Old Ninja Runners to Infiltrators

One problem though.

 

Every other proper Travel Toggle Power has a secondary ability granted while toggled on that affords it some additional movement capabilities. Usually a way to get around some of the difficulties the particular power has or that thematically works with The power.

 

Except Infiltration, Poor Sneakybois just have to make do, I guess.

 

But what if?

 

My proposal Is that Infiltration should have, as it's "Bonus" Pop-up tray Power, a Limited-use Teleport.

There's Two ways to do this Pitch

 

1: Take the same Approach that Speed of Sound's Jaunt, Teleport's Combat Teleport, and Martial Combat's Burst of Speed do: Three short distance teleports on one click with a longer recharge timer

2: Slightly More Interesting, A Single Teleport on a longer  Recharge timer with a PBAO Placate fired at the point of Origin.

 

Why?

 

 

Concealment as a set represents a generalized concept of "Stealth" that ranges from physical sneaking, to lightbending, to phase shifting.

Sneaky quick escapes very neatly falls under this category.  Even if it's not Added to Infiltration proper you might consider adding  some of the features of the second option to Misdirection. Almost Every "Sneaky" archetype has this sort of ability available to them, Ninja

thieves,

Spider-men

Batmen

Ninja Batmen

 

And moreover, from a purely mechanical standpoint It helps overcome one of the Basic limitations of the "Parkour" powers, verticality.

 

In the Olden Days before the Martial Arts Pack gave us Ninja Run, I often would use the GVE Pack mixed with combat Jumping and swift+hurdle as a close approximation. The GVE and Later Steam Packs are something close enough to a Glider Cape and/or Grapple hook to work. Not great, but doable.

 

Once we got a dedicated acrobatics movement ability in Ninja and Beast run I was excited to let go of weird build compromises, but found that the inherent nature of a  what a "Parkour" set needs to be came with it's own compromises. It has to be slower than Super-speed and "Lower" than Super Jump, which is fair and exactly what I wanted, but our cities aren't exactly built for that. They have deep canyons and Towering Spires, and Huge weird Web Structures. I Still Made use of Jump Packs to Claw my way out of Faultline and Grandville and Skyway. Not to mention Occasionally "Skiing" up the Slope of certain buildings in Steel Canyon for some extra height and other geometrical exploits. 

 

Now with the ability to enhance Infiltration I can Jump a bit Higher and Run a bit faster, But I still Find myself equipping my old friends the jump packs to get to the top of buildings and out of canyons just as much. Being able to get to the apex of my jump and take one or two or three quick teleports would probably be exactly what I need to Put away the Jump Jets for good and fully embrace my Inner ninja.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Premmy
typos

[Uun]

42 minutes ago, Premmy said:

Every other proper Travel Toggle Power has a secondary ability granted while toggled on that affords it some additional movement capabilities.

Teleport doesn't have a secondary ability. 

[Premmy]

32 minutes ago, Uun said:

Teleport doesn't have a secondary ability. 

True enough, and they should look into ways to address that but

1: That is outside the scope of this specific suggestion

2: It's not a Travel Toggle and thus not directly relevant to this specific suggestion

[Glacier Peak]

Infiltration has jumping and running for It's travel movement. It's secondary power is being stealthy. It's tertiary ability provides defense out of combat, which allows slotting of defensive set bonuses. I think it's in a good place already. 

[weewoozesty]

What about an ability that automatically teleports you to your target.  Like shield charge and savage leap do.  But it deals no damage.

 

Just a power to phase your way into them.  Sure you can just take Teleport with it.  But if you have other secondaries which are effectively just stuff that does what others do.

 

Fly getting teleport, jump getting speed, fly getting fly.  

[InvaderStych]

16 hours ago, weewoozesty said:

What about an ability that automatically teleports you to your target.  Like shield charge and savage leap do.  But it deals no damage.

 

That is already a thing.  Just use a targeting bind or macro.  There's no need for an additional power.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.teleportation.teleport_foe

 

(Edit: Although that URL still use the old TP Foe power name, I promise that it leads to the data page for Combat Teleport) 😄

 

For the record: Savage Leap is a targeted power.  Shield Charge is not, it is a location-target power just like CT (and Lightning Rod, and Spring Attack, etc) and requires a bind or macro to be targeted like Leap.

 

23 hours ago, Premmy said:

True enough, and they should look into ways to address that but

 

Arguably, the period of hovering after using Teleport is the "bonus," as this effectively allows for flight while using Teleport repeatedly to cross a zone, or whatever.

Edited November 6, 2022 by InvaderStych
explained in the edit

[weewoozesty]

10 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

That is already a thing.  Just use a targeting bind or macro.  There's no need for an additional power.

Yes, but usually the point of the travel power secondaries etc is that they do the function of another power to some degree without having to take another power.

 

As I mentioned before, Mystic Flight gets teleport, Jaunt gets paired with a speed power and stuff of that nature. 

 

Yes you can make a macro, heck you can make a macro for pretty much anything.  But the server should not be balanced or developed around macros.  

[InvaderStych]

32 minutes ago, weewoozesty said:

Yes you can make a macro, heck you can make a macro for pretty much anything. 

 

Precisely. And anyone can do so. Here's the thing:

 

Combat Teleport targets out of the box in exactly the same way that Shield Charge targets out of the box.

 

The power you described here:

 

On 11/5/2022 at 12:46 PM, weewoozesty said:

What about an ability that automatically teleports you to your target.  Like shield charge and savage leap do.  But it deals no damage.

 

... is literally Combat Teleport.  The thing you want already exists. And believe me, it's awesome fun. Highly recommend the power, even just the vanilla version. It's better bound to things like "target" "camera:max" or "cursor," but it exists and can teleport a player directly to a target or targeted location.  It is also fractionally faster than Jaunt/Translocation, and the new Warp set is pretty sweet on top of that.

 

There's no need to revamp a set to create a power that already exists. 🤣

Edited November 6, 2022 by InvaderStych

[weewoozesty]

50 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Precisely. And anyone can do so. Here's the thing:

 

Combat Teleport targets out of the box in exactly the same way that Shield Charge targets out of the box.

 

The power you described here:

 

 

... is literally Combat Teleport.  The thing you want already exists. And believe me, it's awesome fun. Highly recommend the power, even just the vanilla version. It's better bound to things like "target" "camera:max" or "cursor," but it exists and can teleport a player directly to a target or targeted location.  It is also fractionally faster than Jaunt/Translocation, and the new Warp set is pretty sweet on top of that.

 

There's no need to revamp a set to create a power that already exists. 🤣

Point taken.  I sometimes forget combat teleport even exists as I'm just used to using regular teleport to zip around the battlefield as I play my game extremely zoomed out.  And almost at a top down view. Unless im in a closed in area.

The other thing I can think of as a secondary would be a power that temporarily boosts the power's stealth radius and allowing even stronger stealth for a few seconds.  Allowing you to slip by enemies etc un noticed even by drones etc.

 

Something like this could be like other secondaries that while not able to conventionally can actually stack up with other powers of it's type.

 

Like the super jump ability's jump speed increase being able to effect not just the power it is paired with but other jump powers if you desire.

 

It would give people a reason to take it.  And would be in a way a side power that coulld benefit stalkers, device blasters, and illusion controllers even more.

[biostem]

I would give infiltration a toggle power that, when activated, increases the level of stealth it provides, but debuffs your movement speed a little - basically it'd be like an "extra-cautious sneaking mode"...

[Premmy]

On 11/5/2022 at 8:47 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Infiltration has jumping and running for It's travel movement. It's secondary power is being stealthy. It's tertiary ability provides defense out of combat, which allows slotting of defensive set bonuses. I think it's in a good place already. 

So this  suggestions is mostly in regards to overall mobility and zone travel, less so combat and build value, but to address your points.

 

1:Super Speed Has Running greater than and now Jumping on par with Infiltration for it's mobility in addition to Stealth and it still has Speed Phase as an additional power. 

2: Defense out of combat is somewhat useful but not nearly so much

3: As Far as I understand the game isn't meant to be balanced around IO set builds, so I tend not to consider it.

 

12 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Arguably, the period of hovering after using Teleport is the "bonus," as this effectively allows for flight while using Teleport repeatedly to cross a zone, or whatever.

Actually this is a good point, thank you. I guess since it's been there from early-ish  in Live and it's not a power you actively engage I hadn't thought of it as a "power" per se, but it absolutely is, same for Super Speed's new "momentum".

 

The "Bonus" powers seem to be primarily useful (I can't argue design intent, just what I've experience as utility) as boosts to mobility or ways to temporarily make up for the Travel weaknesses of a given Travel ability:

 

Speed Phase and Momentum let Super Speed Overcome it's verticality and control(getting stuck on NPCs and zone geometry) problems Speed's stealth also helps overcome Speed's issue with being directly exposed to more potential Zone enemy Aggro( being stuck on the ground where most enemies are)

Teleport's Hover Gives the player safety from sudden falls and makes the inherent Complexity of Teleporting more Tolerable with a "breather" period between ports

Super-Jump's Hi-Jump gives more Aerial control and Speed

Flight's Afterburner gives more defense and Speed

Mystic Flight gains a bonus to speed with Translocation and a bit more indoor maneuverability 

Speed of Sound Gains Verticality and the ability to escape aggro with Jaunt

and Mighty Leap gains More Speed as well as a way to disperse aggro with Takeoff

 

The Utility of any kind of Teleport, Jaunt, Translocation, or Other, here is to give Infiltration users more verticality while keeping in theme with the Concept of Concealment.

[Glacier Peak]

28 minutes ago, Premmy said:

So this  suggestions is mostly in regards to overall mobility and zone travel, less so combat and build value, but to address your points.

 

1:Super Speed Has Running greater than and now Jumping on par with Infiltration for it's mobility in addition to Stealth and it still has Speed Phase as an additional power. 

2: Defense out of combat is somewhat useful but not nearly so much

3: As Far as I understand the game isn't meant to be balanced around IO set builds, so I tend not to consider it.

You're asking for something to be added that is already in the game. 

[Grouchybeast]

21 hours ago, biostem said:

I would give infiltration a toggle power that, when activated, increases the level of stealth it provides, but debuffs your movement speed a little - basically it'd be like an "extra-cautious sneaking mode"...

 

I like this.  I bet I could get my characters into a lot of trouble by repeatedly convincing myself the extra-stealth toggle would definitely last just long enough to get me past those last few groups.

[biostem]

21 hours ago, Premmy said:

Super Speed Has Running greater than and now Jumping on par with Infiltration for it's mobility in addition to Stealth

Does SS buff jump height or speed?  I didn't think it did...

 

21 hours ago, Premmy said:

Defense out of combat is somewhat useful but not nearly so much

I don't think they were necessarily referencing the value of that stealth, but rather that it can accept stealth IOs.

 

 

[weewoozesty]

I've done it...  I've come up with the ultimate stealth secondary toggle.  It makes you completely undetectable, but does not make you outright invisible.  Instead it does...

 

This...

 

Can not attack in the form, but are 100% undetectable until it wears off.  Even by snipers.