Ice control: Ice Slick

[Scribe]

I think that ice slick should impose a hefty -to hit debuff to affected mobs. I can’t imagine standing (used loosely) on a surface slick enough to cause one to slip repeatedly, would still allow one to attack with pin point accuracy. Adding this will allow ice to close the gap with other control sets even more so than with the change to shiver (cold snap), while still maintaining its identity as a set excelling at soft control.
 

Also, I think that the damage component should either be removed, or have a higher, enhanceable value.  As it is now, it serves no purpose, and has detrimental side effects on anything sleeping (flash freeze).

Edited November 22, 2022 by Scribe

[Uun]

The biggest argument in favor of adding -tohit to Ice Slick is that Earthquake has it.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

The biggest argument in favor of adding -tohit to Ice Slick is that Earthquake has it.

 

If that's the best argument then it's DOA. Powers are not balanced against each other directly, but rather in the context of what the set as a whole brings. Ice Control has massive amounts of Slow that Earth Control cannot match.

 

I'm not saying that Ice Slick SHOULDN'T have -ToHit, but this is not a good argument for it.

[MTeague]

And do you do so also to Freezing Rain?  Sleet Storm?  

It's very easy to construct an argument for most any power.  "How accurate are you going to be after you just took a battle axe to the face?"

But at some point, game mechanics, and the dying shreds of game balance should take over.  At least in my probably unpopular view.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

The biggest argument in favor of adding -tohit to Ice Slick is that Earthquake has it.

 

That's an argument against doing it, not for.  If you want a KD patch with -ToHit, play the appropriate set, rather than homogenize the sets.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

That's an argument against doing it, not for.  If you want a KD patch with -ToHit, play the appropriate set, rather than homogenize the sets.

Fair point, but then Ice Slick should be buffed in some other way to make it comparable. Earthquake has -tohit and unresistable -def. Ice Slick has -speed and the damage added in the last patch (it does not have -recharge).

[Wavicle]

Again, powers are not balanced that way. The set is balanced against the set. Not the individual powers.

[biostem]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:04 PM, Scribe said:

I think that ice slick should impose a hefty -to hit debuff to affected mobs. I can’t imagine standing (used loosely) on a surface slick enough to cause one to slip repeatedly, would still allow one to attack with pin point accuracy.

Here's the problem with that approach - you could rationalize pretty much any debuff that way:  "Enemies should have -tohit while by brute is smacking them in the face with a spiked mace".  "Enemies should suffer a fear effect while I'm summoning my zombie horde"...

[Uun]

4 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Again, powers are not balanced that way. The set is balanced against the set. Not the individual powers.

Powers that do the same thing in different sets in the same AT are also balanced against each other. In the control sets, the holds, immobilizes and stuns have basically the same control, damage and recharge stats across all the primaries (with a few exceptions for unique powers like Wormhole, Volcanic Gasses and Shadow Field). I don't think it's unreasonable to expect all the knockdown patches to provide similar levels of functionality (even with different secondary effects). Even with the recent buffs to Ice Control, it still lags most of the other control sets.

[Wavicle]

13 minutes ago, Uun said:

Powers that do the same thing in different sets in the same AT are also balanced against each other. In the control sets, the holds, immobilizes and stuns have basically the same control, damage and recharge stats across all the primaries (with a few exceptions for unique powers like Wormhole, Volcanic Gasses and Shadow Field). I don't think it's unreasonable to expect all the knockdown patches to provide similar levels of functionality (even with different secondary effects). Even with the recent buffs to Ice Control, it still lags most of the other control sets.

 

They are balanced for the primary element. Not secondary effects.

Earthquake and Ice Slick have the same duration and recharge, the same end cost, ice slick actually has a slightly better knockdown chance.

Elements like debuffs in a Control set are secondary effects that are going to typically be different in different sets. Earth Control has very little in the way of Defensive debuffs outside of Earthquake. Ice Control has defensive debuffs in everything EXCEPT Ice Slick.

 

I'm not convinced that Ice Control lags behind anymore. That would have to be demonstrated.