Rad/Axe or Bio/Axe

[Groovy_Ghoul]

I’m leaning towards Radiation for the primary, as I’ve never leveled one. Having a damage aura and a recovery power would seem to provide balance to lethal damage and an endurance hungry  secondary.

 

Any builds out there for either combo? Recent upgrades to BA make older builds seem almost obsolete. 

Thoughts?
 

Thanks in advance!

[Xandyr]

I've not tried the new BA. However, here's a build to give you some ideas.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), ImpArm-ResPsi(45)
Level 1: Chop -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(5), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Hct-Dam%(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Hct-Acc/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 4: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 8: Radiation Therapy -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(9), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(9), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), ScrDrv-Dam%(15), Erd-%Dam(15)
Level 10: Fallout Shelter -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), ImpArm-ResPsi(45), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 16: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(19), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Absorb%(46), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 20: Pendulum -- SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(39), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(39), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 22: Ground Zero -- ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(23), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 24: Swoop -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Axe Cyclone -- SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(29), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(34)
Level 30: Cleave -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(31), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(31), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(46)
Level 35: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(42), GssSynFr--Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- RgnTss-Regen+(A)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48), ShlWal-Def(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(48), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 49: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 4: Double Jump 
------------

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[Groovy_Ghoul]

Looks very solid. Thank you for the suggested build.

[Warboss]

Do it, you'll love it!

[Groovy_Ghoul]

Just hit 50 last night. Really enjoying this combo. Still working on getting all the IOs in place and very impressed even though he’s not optimized.  Thanks for the build advice.

 

Any recommendations for incarnates?

[twozerofoxtrot]

A: Musc Core

I: Reactive or Degen Radial

J: User Pref; Pyro Core is my top pick.

D; Incan, either side

L: Banished Pantheon Core

H: Assault Radial

 

 

 

*Rad is one of those fewer, newer Armors thar just does so much so well that you don't really need the End, Recharge, or Survivability of the other Destiny choices. Drag your team along for the ride with Incan.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by twozerofoxtrot
D:

[PLVRIZR]

On 12/20/2022 at 11:52 PM, twozerofoxtrot said:

D; Incan, either side

 

*Rad is one of those fewer, newer Armors thar just does so much so well that you don't really need the End, Recharge, or Survivability of the other Destiny choices. Drag your team along for the ride with Incan.

 

 

What about DDR?

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, PLVRIZR said:

What about DDR?

 

Does that work?

 

I know that sounds like a dumb question, but what I mean is: Is that actually enough to prevent you from being defense floored in the hardest of hardmode content?  Because if not, then it's kind of wasted effort. It might buy a few extra seconds but if you're going to arrive at that floor anyway, might as well invest in stuff you can rely on instead of Defense and DDR.

 

I haven't tried it, nor do I have any experience with hardmodes, so I am honestly curious.  If I get to keep it... I'll buy.  Otherwise I'll stick to boosting all the stuff I can rely on and which RadA is already good at.  In theory, it seems like it ought to work if we include team buffs in the equation.  I wouldn't rely just on my own defense IOing and Ageless Radial.  But stacked with team defense buffs?  Maybe it's enough to stay above cascade failure.   Maybe.

[aethereal]

14 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Does that work?

 

I know that sounds like a dumb question, but what I mean is: Is that actually enough to prevent you from being defense floored in the hardest of hardmode content?  Because if not, then it's kind of wasted effort. It might buy a few extra seconds but if you're going to arrive at that floor anyway, might as well invest in stuff you can rely on instead of Defense and DDR.

 

I haven't tried it, nor do I have any experience with hardmodes, so I am honestly curious.  If I get to keep it... I'll buy.  Otherwise I'll stick to boosting all the stuff I can rely on and which RadA is already good at.  In theory, it seems like it ought to work if we include team buffs in the equation.  I wouldn't rely just on my own defense IOing and Ageless Radial.  But stacked with team defense buffs?  Maybe it's enough to stay above cascade failure.   Maybe.

 

So I believe this is the power:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.destiny.ageless_total_radial_invocation&at=tanker

 

Looks like the DDR is 85% for 15 seconds, then 42.5% until the 30 second mark, then 21.25% until the 60 second mark.  85% will generally protect you strongly from defense debuffers, 42.5% will protect you from weaker debuffers or if you have a significant overcap amount, and honestly I don't think you'll notice the 21.25% DDR -- the cascade will make it irrelevant.

 

So holistically I'd say, "It'll get you through alpha once every 2 minutes with your defense in good shape, but not more than that."

 

It doesn't stack with other people's ageless, if I'm understanding CoD correctly, but an eight person team could theoretically with good coordination keep 85% up all the time, and 42.5% with many bursts up to 85% seems pretty plausible (if and only if the entire team, or like 6+ of them, have Ageless Radial).

[ZemX]

4 minutes ago, aethereal said:

It doesn't stack with other people's ageless, if I'm understanding CoD correctly, but an eight person team could theoretically with good coordination keep 85% up all the time, and 42.5% with many bursts up to 85% seems pretty plausible (if and only if the entire team, or like 6+ of them, have Ageless Radial).

 

It should stack.  Stacking is shown as per-caster, which means different casters can stack.  "Replaces existing effect" only applies to each caster.  So one caster can't stack but multiple different ones can.  You'll see the same notation on Maneuvers, for example.

 

The other thing that matters here is how high your defense is over the soft-cap.  RadA can't, by itself, soft-cap everything easily without Barrier (and then only some of the time).  So that means team buffs taking you the rest of the way up over soft-cap for whatever content you're running.  

 

It's not an easy lift, which is what makes me wonder if it really holds up.  I suppose with the right mix of team buffs, and stacking Ageless or Barriers... it should.

[aethereal]

47 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

It should stack.  Stacking is shown as per-caster, which means different casters can stack.  "Replaces existing effect" only applies to each caster.  So one caster can't stack but multiple different ones can.  You'll see the same notation on Maneuvers, for example.

 

The other thing that matters here is how high your defense is over the soft-cap.  RadA can't, by itself, soft-cap everything easily without Barrier (and then only some of the time).  So that means team buffs taking you the rest of the way up over soft-cap for whatever content you're running.  

 

It's not an easy lift, which is what makes me wonder if it really holds up.  I suppose with the right mix of team buffs, and stacking Ageless or Barriers... it should.

 

You're right about the stacking.  That suggests that if four players had Ageless Radial and were pretty disciplined about applying it in rotation, they could achieve high DDR all the time (or almost all the time, considering imperfections in rotations).

 

One character on the team who applies significant defense (Forcefields or Time or whatever), or a whole team of people who all have Maneuvers, or a few players with Barrier or whatever, plus four players with Ageless seems like it could put you into very high defense situation that's very robust -- but you're right that it's a high-team-coordination thing.

[PLVRIZR]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

Does that work?

 

 

Pursuant to the previous discussion - not much - but I posed the question as it was not referenced by @twozerofoxtrot in the [excellent] recommendations on incarnates for Rad Armor.

 

I am in the process of incarnating my first Rad Armor (/Axe) tank and will probably take it, just because I'm so used to Inv and Shield armors' DDR.  I get that high recharge and keeping the absorb shield(s) up, as much as possible is paramount, but even a non-HM +4/8 ITF is brutal without some sort of DDR, solo.  In the absence of being debuffed, a Rad tank with "only" 35% melee defense is still practically unkillable, considering the resistance caps, absorb shield, regen and inherent heal.

[ZemX]

5 minutes ago, PLVRIZR said:

even a non-HM +4/8 ITF is brutal without some sort of DDR, solo.  In the absence of being debuffed, a Rad tank with "only" 35% melee defense is still practically unkillable, considering the resistance caps, absorb shield, regen and inherent heal.

 

Not a bad idea for testing.  I've been toying with the idea of starting a second build on my Rad/Staffer to play with defense.  Can achieve some pretty impressive levels of melee defense with Guarded Spin.  Might be enough.  And if not, perhaps as a rotation with other powers like Meltdown and Melee Hybrid getting you through the low-DDR portions of Ageless.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I didn't assume hardmode content when I provided my recs.  If you're factoring that in then Ageless Radial is the safer bet, but as discussed upthread it should be coordinated among your team who is bringing what to each HM run.

 

 

Something I've noticed while running Ageless Radial is that it's somewhat unintuitively good to run it reactively.  It doesn't (last I tested and checked) provide protection but rather resist to the effect. This means it shortens applications of DDR down to nill, and if you use Ageless Radial when you're debuffed it will scrub the stacks off of you.

 

Of course that requires some very attentive and reflexive play from the individual. 

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Something I've noticed while running Ageless Radial is that it's somewhat unintuitively good to run it reactively.  It doesn't (last I tested and checked) provide protection but rather resist to the effect. This means it shortens applications of DDR down to nill, and if you use Ageless Radial when you're debuffed it will scrub the stacks off of you.

The way DDR works is actually by cutting a percentage of the debuff.  So is you have 95% DDR (the tank cap) and get hit with -100 defense debuff you'll be hit with a 5% defense debuff.  Now that being said, you can still use Ageless reactively, it could end up being beneficial, but the way I generally play, Ageless becomes my auto power once I got T4 on it.

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 minute ago, Psyonico said:

my auto power

 

Issue there is it isn't running at full strength all the time. I'm not trying to convince you to change your style, but rather saying that using it reactively allows you to shrug off a cascade when it's going to hurt, and eliminates one that might sneak in at 10 seconds left till recharge.

[tidge]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:52 AM, twozerofoxtrot said:

A: Musc Core

I: Reactive or Degen Radial

J: User Pref; Pyro Core is my top pick.

D; Incan, either side

L: Banished Pantheon Core

H: Assault Radial

 

I have a question about the Hybrid recommendation:  Assault Radial is the %double hit (Energy), which is a more obvious recommendation when the Tanker Damage Scales were Melee=0.8 and Range=0.5. Is it still the obvious choice when the Tanker Damage Scales were increased to Melee=0.95 and Range=0.8 in Issue 26 page 4?

[twozerofoxtrot]

12 hours ago, tidge said:

Is it still the obvious choice

 

I believe so, yes. I haven't looked at the numbers in years but IIRC it either edges out ahead slightly or notably inproves damage. In the latter case, specifically with respect to Super Strength since the proc damage doesn't care about Rage crashes.

 

I think the only ATs that really benefit from Core are the ones with high power damage mods and high damage stat caps. So that's... Blasters, Scraps, and Stalkers? I think the frequency of having Build Up available on Stalkers plays into it.

 

Again it's been a while so some of what I'm arguing for is axiomatic and might need to be re-confirmed.

[tidge]

12 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

I think the only ATs that really benefit from Core are the ones with high power damage mods and high damage stat caps. So that's... Blasters, Scraps, and Stalkers? I think the frequency of having Build Up available on Stalkers plays into it.

 

Part of why I ask: The collective mind-set of "give Tankers more %damage procs" to lean into larger AoE target caps will likely imply that those same AoE attacks won't be slotted near the 500% damage cap for level 50 Tankers (even with Build Up in play). Assault Radial is essentially "another %damage" that bypasses damage (buff) caps, but I'm starting to wonder if the larger AoE are offering more opportunities to keep the Hybrid Core stacked at +5.

 

I consider %Energy to still be a pretty nice %damage proc, for many Tanker secondaries.